Bar incident last night - what would you do?

Last night I was at a local sports bar with my girlfriend having wings and beer. Since I was drinking, I was not carrying. We were on the outside patio surrounded by tables, and one table next to us was a group of 3 guys and two girls (20-25). They were a little loud and obnoxious, but nothing too serious.

I got up to go to the bathroom, and when I returned I heard one of them say, "And we're back!" I didn't think anything of it until my girlfriend told me they had been talking about her and I the whole time I was gone, thinking she was oblivious. They made comments about how hot she is, how one of them has a thing for blondes, etc. When I sat down I heard one of the guys say, "I'll kick his ass and you take his girl home."

I was very tempted to say something, but my girlfriend talked me out of it. In hindsight, that was probably the wise thing to do seeing as how 3 on 1 is never good odds for an unarmed man. Had I been armed I certainly wouldn't have started a fight that could possibly result in my use of deadly force...

We got up and left. What would you folks have done?

Likely the same.


Normally I'd come up with something witty to say back to them, but the addition of alcohol generally negates my wittyness.

I think the best thing to do would be to just walk away and get outta there. Even if it was just one drunken fool and not three it would of been wise to just leave. Plus, like you said, you had been drinking too so it would be even MORE important to not confront them.

I know it can be tough to hold our tongues and want to defend (verbally) ourselves and our loved ones in those kind of situations, but those goons were probably wanting you to react and maybe were egging you on. Congrats on taking the high road and doing the right thing!

Walk.

Not worth loosing any teeth over, or worse.

I think you did the right thing talk is cheap. However that is the reason I only go to biker bars I never have that problem. If somebody runs their mouth at a biker bar they will get their A$$ stomped. For that very reason people like that don't go to biker bars and everybody is very polite to each other.

As far as drinking and carrying it depends on your definition of drinking. If I go out to dinner and have a drink with dinner, or stop at a biker bar to have lunch while out riding my harley and have a couple of beers I carry. If on the other hand I was to go out to a bar to drink with some freinds and party then I will not carry.

You did good.. turd balls like that just aren't worth the effort. Though I would have stopped by where ever the manager was and made damn sure they knew I wouldn't be returning, and in very clear ways, why.

stop drinking, or at least stop going to bars
good things don't happen in bars. :cry:

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Originally Posted by JohnTRourke

stop drinking, or at least stop going to bars
good things don't happen in bars. :cry:

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+10000000000000000000000000000000

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Originally Posted by NickB

Had I been armed I certainly wouldn't have started a fight that could possibly result in my use of deadly force...

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Remeber if you start a fight and it excalates to the use of deadly force you may not be protected by self-defense.

You did the right thing and should do the same even if armed.

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Originally Posted by PsychoI3oy

Normally I'd come up with something witty to say back to them, but the addition of alcohol generally negates my wittyness.

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I'm the opposite - feed me booze and I turn into a clever bastard. They were all white trash, so I had a pretty witty Joe Dirt/trailer park/incest speech worked out in my mind, but I never did get to use it. :twisted:

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Originally Posted by HunterCO

As far as drinking and carrying it depends on your definition of drinking. If I go out to dinner and have a drink with dinner, or stop at a biker bar to have lunch while out riding my harley and have a couple of beers I carry. If on the other hand I was to go out to a bar to drink with some freinds and party then I will not carry.

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Good to know, Hunter. I know Colorado law doesn't specify any penalty for drinking and carrying, and it is something that concerns most of us. I only had two beers with dinner, so it certainly wasn't a night of drinking, and I do believe I'll continue to carry when drinking in moderation (beer with lunch, wine with dinner, etc.).

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Originally Posted by JohnTRourke

stop drinking, or at least stop going to bars
good things don't happen in bars. :cry:

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Neither of those things are likely to happen any time soon, unfortunately. I do try to limit my time at bars as much as possible, but they're not completely unavoidable when you're single in a college town...

Edit: Not "single", but not married, either...

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Originally Posted by NickB

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Originally Posted by HunterCO

As far as drinking and carrying it depends on your definition of drinking. If I go out to dinner and have a drink with dinner, or stop at a biker bar to have lunch while out riding my harley and have a couple of beers I carry. If on the other hand I was to go out to a bar to drink with some freinds and party then I will not carry.

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Good to know, Hunter. I know Colorado law doesn't specify any penalty for drinking and carrying, and it is something that concerns most of us. I only had two beers with dinner, so it certainly wasn't a night of drinking, and I do believe I'll continue to carry when drinking in moderation (beer with lunch, wine with dinner, etc.).

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Actually it does

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18-12-106 Prohibited Use of Weapons

1. A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to Part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

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Is "under the influence" defined? I was told during my CCW class that ANY alcohol in your system is considered "under the influence" when pertaining to firearms.

You done good NickB.


At least you know those guys saw you walk away with a lady they thought was on the 'better looking' side of the spectrum :mrgreen:

Very disrespectful to the ladies they were sitting with though [poke]

Kyle

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Originally Posted by WillysWagon

You done good NickB.


At least you know those guys saw you walk away with a lady they thought was on the 'better looking' side of the spectrum :mrgreen:

Very disrespectful to the ladies they were sitting with though [poke]

Kyle

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That's exactly what I was going to say. Had they followed you out and started shit, though, then there would be problems.

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Originally Posted by newracer

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Originally Posted by NickB

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Originally Posted by HunterCO

As far as drinking and carrying it depends on your definition of drinking. If I go out to dinner and have a drink with dinner, or stop at a biker bar to have lunch while out riding my harley and have a couple of beers I carry. If on the other hand I was to go out to a bar to drink with some freinds and party then I will not carry.

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Good to know, Hunter. I know Colorado law doesn't specify any penalty for drinking and carrying, and it is something that concerns most of us. I only had two beers with dinner, so it certainly wasn't a night of drinking, and I do believe I'll continue to carry when drinking in moderation (beer with lunch, wine with dinner, etc.).

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Actually it does

Quote:

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18-12-106 Prohibited Use of Weapons

1. A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to Part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

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Is "under the influence" defined? I was told during my CCW class that ANY alcohol in your system is considered "under the influence" when pertaining to firearms.

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God...I'm ashamed of myself. I even knew that. I don't know where my brain fart came from...I even had this conversation with my father (a LEO) last week...

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Originally Posted by newracer

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Originally Posted by NickB

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Originally Posted by HunterCO

As far as drinking and carrying it depends on your definition of drinking. If I go out to dinner and have a drink with dinner, or stop at a biker bar to have lunch while out riding my harley and have a couple of beers I carry. If on the other hand I was to go out to a bar to drink with some freinds and party then I will not carry.

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Good to know, Hunter. I know Colorado law doesn't specify any penalty for drinking and carrying, and it is something that concerns most of us. I only had two beers with dinner, so it certainly wasn't a night of drinking, and I do believe I'll continue to carry when drinking in moderation (beer with lunch, wine with dinner, etc.).

---

Actually it does

Quote:

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18-12-106 Prohibited Use of Weapons

1. A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to Part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

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Is "under the influence" defined? I was told during my CCW class that ANY alcohol in your system is considered "under the influence" when pertaining to firearms.

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I am well aware of what the law says I have a binder with every statue in the state of Colorado regarding firearms. I am not going to argue it my advice is to talk to an attorney not a CCW instructor.

If that was the case then anybody with a cold that takes Nyquil for instance better not carry. :roll:

I will continue to carry as I have been doing for about 7 years now with out a single problem.

Kudos for keeping your cool NickB. Only thing I mighta done differently, since these guys were obviously looking for trouble from your account, is tell the restaurant/bar manager about it on my way out. If it's a place you like to go and have never seen these jerks there before, having 'em kicked out/cut off might keep 'em away in the future.

Had some troublemakers in the bar I worked at in Chicago a few times, and both instances I'm thinking about ended with them getting kicked out (ok yes, I helped with that part). Never saw 'em again and I was there for 3 years. Just my two pennies.

Be careful when you're in Lakewood. The last I knew there was a city law that states you can't carry in a place that serves alcohol.

I'm not worried about getting caught with a gun on me when I'm having a drink with dinner. I'm worried about the repurcussions if I happen to need to use my gun while having a drink with dinner. Is it treated the same as drinking and driving or am I screwed if they somehow know that I'd been drinking?

Hunter, you can carry for years and never need to use it. It wouldn't even be hard to get away with carrying without a permit the entire time. It's when you actually have to use it that you get into trouble.

I think you did the right thing by walking away, I know I would have had a hard time doing that, pride is a bitch.

This is also why I avoid bars and don't drink, I never got anything but trouble from both.

The question one has to ask is if you have a Nyquil or a beer and your not going to carry because of that tiny amount in your system (depending on how well you handle it) What happens if something does happen where you would actually need to use your firearm.

2 questions really

Would you rather be potentially dead or in a hospital somewhere clinging to life?

or

Would you rather be court trying to explain yourself, since you probably shot under the right circumstances, where you’d probably get away with only being charged for the drinking and shooting part?


Personally I don’t drink, and never will. I'm 19 so I cant legally anyways, but when I was in Germany I tried some and didn’t like it. But if I was the type to drink or go to bars I would carry.


I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Good motto in my book.

You did the right thing. I know it is very hard to walk away sometimes. But, you have to remember that even getting into a regular fight can result in assault charges. Those charges can keep you from carrying your ccw. I have had many times that i have had to bite my tongue and walk away. It is worth it in the long run.

Nick, Good-on-ya Lad. Leaving is the best possible answer in a case like that. I too would have just left, armed or not, and as others have already said, I'd have had a word with the manager before leaving.

I also agree with many who've said that any amount of alcohol in your system is too much under the law. I've also taught and preached that even over the counter meds, like NyQuil or Actifed or Sudefed, can be concidered by the law in the same classification as alcohol. Many will say that these drugs don't affect them enough, and that may well be true, however, the law may not see it that way.

You have to be the judge on what you feel affects you. With me, even a Childs dose of NyQuil will make me high as a kite all night and well into the next day. It's not just the alcohol that's in it that affects me. There is obviously more to it, because it's not like being drunk. Lord knows, I've been down that road and for a few days at a time before. That was back when I was still young and stupid.

I do, on occation have a drink, or five, but I usually do it where I won't need a gun and don't have to drive, like home or where I'm staying for the night. I've seen friends of mine go through the courts with DUI's and that ain't pretty.

We all make our own decisions. Mine are not to carry, or to drive, under the influence of anything. I also will not allow anyone I'm with to drive or carry if they are under the influence. If they insist, "well, bye" and I'm out of there.

BTW: Delphi, if you take NyQuil, don't go out drinking, driving or looking for trouble, GO TO BED! :mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by JohnTRourke

stop drinking, or at least stop going to bars
good things don't happen in bars. :cry:

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I met my wife in a bar. Take however you want. [pirate]