Wtf???!!!!

Listening to KOA a bit ago and the top o' the hour news comes on. The gal broadcasting makes a statement that Douglas County will have a DUI checkpoint this weekend. Big deal, every agency does it, I don't live there and really don't drink so no biggie.
But her next statement knocked me for a loop-she said personnel from Buckley AFB would be "assisting" DougCo.
Since when are military resources used for DUI enforcement?
Anybody care to shed some light on this subject?



"Komrade-where have you been this evening? Where are you going? Have you been drinking-please see the soldier on the right"


WTF???

Could it be that they'll have a couple APs there to deal with military personnel that get caught DUI?

There are laws that forbid the military from functioning with civilian law enforcement personnel. However, I can't remember them at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Could it be that they'll have a couple APs there to deal with military personnel that get caught DUI?

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I hope you're right. If not, that's some major bullshit!!

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Originally Posted by airborneranger

There are laws that forbid the military from functioning with civilian law enforcement personnel. However, I can't remember them at the moment.

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Its called the Posse Comitatus Act

Buckley AFB has just recently went to a civilian police force as their force protection for the base. Very similar to what Fort Carson has and I would assume, what other bases/posts have.

Could it be they are there to observe and see how a DUI checkpoint is run? There are very specific rules that have to be followed in order to ensure the legality of the whole endeavor and one would not want to try to run one of their own without the benefit of watching/participating in one prior.

Maybe DOD PD. They are consider civilian. Usually ex-DOD employees.

WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS! [Muaha]

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

Buckley AFB has just recently went to a civilian police force as their force protection for the base. Very similar to what Fort Carson has and I would assume, what other bases/posts have.

Could it be they are there to observe and see how a DUI checkpoint is run? There are very specific rules that have to be followed in order to ensure the legality of the whole endeavor and one would not want to try to run one of their own without the benefit of watching/participating in one prior.

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Civvie Police on mil bases are still qualified as LEOs in the US. MPs/SPs, are mil LE only, and can only be used as mil LE. But... and this was the case when I was at Ft. Drum in NY, which had civilians working with the MPs and were excluded from deployment (basically cops that worked on base). Fully legal for them to enforce laws in and outside the base (jurisdictional concerns apply), but bottom line, the Buckley AF PD can (as long as not mil pax) assist in 'emergency' situations. Not 100% sure if the Buckley civ cops can help with DUI checkpoints, but I know we had a situation in Drum years back where a soldier was running around with a semi-auto rifle shooting at things and the civilian Drum PD responded even when he was off-post.

Via their FB page.

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The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office (DCSO) will be stepping up their efforts to apprehend intoxicated and impaired drivers. On Saturday, August 20, 2011 from 6:00 PM to 2:00 AM deputies and volunteers from the DCSO and Community Safety Volunteers will be assisted by representatives from M.A.D.D. and soldiers from Buckley Air Force Base, utilizing Colorado Department of Transportation (CDOT) grant funds, will be conducting a DUI checkpoint at a location in Douglas County on a roadway that has been identified as a problem area for accidents and high incidents of DUI arrests. DCSO will also have extra officers working throughout the weekend whose primary focus will be to apprehend intoxicated and impaired drivers in other areas of the county.

All deputies and officers want to remind drivers “Drunk Driving. Over the Limit. Under Arrest !”

The operation of the sobriety checkpoints will be conducted with the utmost respect for the safety of the participating officers and the motoring public. Priority shall be given to minimize the amount of time a motorist spends at the checkpoint to protect their constitutional rights.

The Colorado Department of Transportation grant funding is being used to assist law enforcement agencies in their efforts to enforce DUI laws within Colorado.

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no worries, it's for the greater good

There are very few "soldiers" at Buckley, and if anyone is going to be at the DUI checkpoint, it with be USAF SPs (maybe OSI), security police for all of you who gave it a shot and missed.

Posse Comitatus does NOT stop SPs from being involved in the DUI checkpoint. It stops active duty military from enforcing civilian law. As I read it, they will be there to enforce military law on active military personnel. This is not a violation of pussy comeandgetus. They just get involved once a drunk is identified as active military. Every joint effort I worked over the years, what the military could and couldn't do was discussed prior to the operation with both the military and civilians usually by a JAG or based on a JAGs review of the op.

So, you can calm down. We aren't in Russia yet.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

There are very few "soldiers" at Buckley, and if anyone is going to be at the DUI checkpoint, it with be USAF SPs (maybe OSI), security police for all of you who gave it a shot and missed.

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Air Force military police are called Security Forces or SF for short. I am not sure who uses the SP acronym.

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Originally Posted by airborneranger

Air Force military police are called Security Forces or SF for short. I am not sure who uses the SP acronym.

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Whoops, my bad- I get confused with the Chair Force lingo... SF, that's right, it's the acronym that my AF buddies use and people think it means "Special Forces"... I just say "Yes, they're part of the AF "Special" Forces... totally crushed me when I heard the Air Force lets in people with down syndrome." [ROFL1]

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Whoops, my bad- I get confused with the Chair Force lingo... SF, that's right, it's the acronym that my AF buddies use and people think it means "Special Forces"... I just say "Yes, they're part of the AF "Special" Forces... totally crushed me when I heard the Air Force lets in people with down syndrome." [ROFL1]

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I am with you on this one. Even better is when the AF SF state that they are the infantry of the Air Force! [ROFL3]

Where I grew up, VA Beach Va, it was common to have Shore Patrols and MPs working with local LEOs down at the strip, 80% of the bars are within a 40 block strip at the ocean front. With so many military in the area a large percentage of the trouble was started by drunk sailors.

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

no worries, it's for the greater good

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Damn, now I have to go put that in...

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

There are very few "soldiers" at Buckley, ...

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Actually there's an Army National Guard post based out of there, flying choppers. I was told in no uncertain terms that the Air Force does NOT have anything to do with helicopters by the switchboardman at the tower...you could almost hear his nose going up as he stated that "those things belong to the Army"...[LOL]

Thank goodness we have an Army. Where would all the Air Force rejects go otherwise?

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

Actually there's an Army National Guard post based out of there, flying choppers. I was told in no uncertain terms that the Air Force does NOT have anything to do with helicopters by the switchboardman at the tower...you could almost hear his nose going up as he stated that "those things belong to the Army"...[LOL]

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There is a Special Forces unit there, a medical command, a military intelligence unit, two aviation units and CERF-P (CBRN Enhanced Response Force Package. They are the second tier response forces for incidents involving WMD IN THE HOMELAND). These are all Colorado ARMY National Guard units. These units have a higher number of full timers than do "regular" NG units. Now, for the Colorado AIR National Guard...you got me.

They were doing these "joint effort" things out east earlier in the year (maybe late last year) if I remember correctly. Raised a lot of eyebrows......at that time it was explained away as training for emergencies or something like that. I think its going to be an interesting next couple years.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

Could it be they are there to observe and see how a DUI checkpoint is run? There are very specific rules that have to be followed in order to ensure the legality of the whole endeavor and one would not want to try to run one of their own without the benefit of watching/participating in one prior.

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I've always wondered about the legality of DUI check points. Could you post some more information about what you are talking about please?

I know they have to announce them prior via mainstream media...think newspaper. Something to do with entrapment maybe?

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Originally Posted by Irving

I've always wondered about the legality of DUI check points. Could you post some more information about what you are talking about please?

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Stu, It's been awhile since I've been involved in one, but there is a lot of planning that has to go into them. Safe areas for pulling over, escape routes (there has to be a way for vehicles to avoid it), systematic vehicles through the checkpoint (you can't pull everyone over; its more like pulling 10 vehicles in at a time, allow traffic to continue to flow and then pull 10 more in once the first 10 are done), flyers to be handed out, media involvement, etc. I'm sure there are Google searches that can be done that will outline more details, but these are off the top of my head from working them years ago.

There was a DUI check point in front of my house last month. They definitely pulled over EVERY car. Interesting that they are supposed to allow escape routes. If you tried to turn around before a check point, wouldn't they just chase you down?

It has to be systematic in their approach meaning they can't pick and choose which vehicles to pull over. If they pulled them all over, well, it fits, but I've not been a part of one that did that. A busy street will have vehicles backed up for miles.

They need to post it on the roadway and after the posting, have a street or exit that can be used to allow vehicles to not access the checkpoint. We used CDOT electronic signs and allowed vehicles to exit off the roadway onto another road. Those that pull a U-turn are usually stopped. The difference between them and the vehicle exiting after the signage? I don't know.

What they did was cut all the traffic to one lane, had about ten officers standing roadside, and would let through ten cars at a time. I stopped for the traffic at the very end of the group in front of me, then had to stop at the first officer in the line when I went through. I was happy to see that he didn't seem very comfortable being there, and did his best to get me on my way asap. Maybe he could sense that I wasn't happy about being stopped.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

Those that pull a U-turn are usually stopped. The difference between them and the vehicle exiting after the signage? I don't know.

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Maybe since they already proved they weren't paying attention by not seeing the signs on the way to the checkpoint LOL

Yep, you're right they are SF now... I still slip back into the old school acronyms now and then. Just too many penguins on the ice berg anymore.

I was stationed at Buckley for over 4 years as OSI from 2002 to 2007. I'm very familiar with the bases population. I won't go into numbers at all, Opsec, but I'll stand by my previous statement that there are very few "soldiers" on Buckley.

Regardless, military police forces working stuff like this isn't as uncommon as one might believe.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I've always wondered about the legality of DUI check points. Could you post some more information about what you are talking about please?

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IMO, It appears that the civilian's right to travel are not "really" violated if the majority of the civilian's have their rights violated. "Look, everyone else is doing it so just keep your head down and you will be through this if we can't find anything on you." After all, this is for our safety and the funding of our cities and State.

They had one of these DUI stops on Federal and 84th ish Friday night/Saturday morning of this last week. We were on our way home from a friends birthday party. My wife and 3 of her drunken friend's were with me eating McDonalds in the passenger and back seats. When I stopped, they had a couple cars pulled over with the drivers outside them doing stupid human tricks.
I was asked if I had been drinking, I said "no sir, that is illegal". He sent me on my way. First one of these I have seen or been in here in Colorado. In AZ it was pretty common.

They used to set up checkpoints in Boulder pretty often.....I remember heading to a pow-wow in the mountains in my beater, beer and whiskey on board and thinking "great, I'm going to get tossed since I'm in a beater ass car". Nope, waved me right through.....did notice a large amount of high-end cars being pulled over though -does that count as discrimination, since they were purposely picking out people who looked like they could afford to drink in Boulder [ROFL1] (And NO, as the driver I was NOT drinking - I don't mess around with my livelihood -Now everyone else on board though may or may not have been)

Thanks for the knowledgeable replies to this subject. I never realized that military personnel were commonplace at a checkpoint. Makes sense if they are in a locale where Mil personnel are common. I was always under the impression that Mil at a civilian LE action was illegal.

I have only had to deal with 2 checkpoints. One was at 56ish and Federal and they just waved me through and the second was 120th and Pecos. The officer waved me over and asked if I had been drinking at all and I replied that I do not drink, he stuck his head in the truck and got right in my face whiffing for alcohol. He was an AssHat and pretty rude. Glad I didn't accidentally hit the window button[Coffee]
I drove on but I did notice in both instances cruisers on just about every side street just waiting for those that tried to duck the checkpoint.

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Originally Posted by n8tive97

They had one of these DUI stops on Federal and 84th ish Friday night/Saturday morning of this last week. We were on our way home from a friends birthday party. My wife and 3 of her drunken friend's were with me eating McDonalds in the passenger and back seats. When I stopped, they had a couple cars pulled over with the drivers outside them doing stupid human tricks.
I was asked if I had been drinking, I said "no sir, that is illegal". He sent me on my way. First one of these I have seen or been in here in Colorado. In AZ it was pretty common.

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That is EXACTLY the location of the one I drove through last month.

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

The officer waved me over and asked if I had been drinking at all and I replied that I do not drink, he stuck his head in the truck and got right in my face whiffing for alcohol. He was an AssHat and pretty rude. Glad I didn't accidentally hit the window button[Coffee]
I drove on but I did notice in both instances cruisers on just about every side street just waiting for those that tried to duck the checkpoint.

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They do that? Next time I'll be sure to cough directly into his face.

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Originally Posted by Irving

That is EXACTLY the location of the one I drove through last month.




They do that? Next time I'll be sure to cough directly into his face.

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Been through 2 checkpoints in my life one was after a 16 hour shift I reeked of diesel fuel and know i looked like absolute hell. Got pulled from the car did the sobriety tests barely passed them the officer was not convinced until i offered to blow or do a blood test finally let me go. the other one I was the DD had 3 drunk buddies in my car 2 just home from Iraq. Told him I had not been drinking and will blow or blood test to prove it. I explained what was going on 5 minutes in and out.