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In response to the shooting today perhaps? Who knows.
Subject: Wake Up
From: rics23@yahoo.com
To: information@coloradoshooting.org
You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
An armed citizenry leads to disasters. Let the police
do
their jobs and help keep our schools safe.
Kevin McDougall
Small Springs, MI
.
.
Its a shame what happend today. There are cowards out there that would harm innocent people. But to use it as an excuse to disarm more innocent people the means to defend themselves agiant these cowards. :roll:
I don't understand gun control
my thoughts and prayers go out to this family
What the fuck? The police are the ones who got this girl killed by attempting what sounds like a failed room breach. Yeah, let's all trust them to be our only means of protection.....
:roll:
Brian
:roll:
Being from out of state he doesn't know that all public schools are "gun free zones". There were no armed citizens on school property. There was a person who by his own actions became a criminal (if he had no previous record).
Had there been armed citizens then maybe this mess would have turned out different. No garauntee, but what sort of garauntee did the cops provide?
So... what did you send back to him?
An EVIL man killed the girl, who knows how long this predator wandered the streets.
Current laws, more laws and even a complete ban on guns would not have saved this girls life. Evil people do not follow the laws as this person has proven.
yep, it was all the guns fault :roll:
who the fuck was at the trigger? some old fucker with some as yet to be determined motive! Thats who you need to blame, not an inanimate object.
btw, there was supposedly an armed Sheriff officer at the school AND it was a gun free zone..... as we see now, that really helped, didn't it?
when people do not have the means to resist, this is the kind of shit that's gonna happen. IF you were to take guns away completly....well, take a look at the UK and Australia as only two examples. crime rates have grown exponentialy.
I'm saddened for whats happened, but its not my fault or the fault of firearms, they were just tools that were used. Any number of items could have been used. As sorry as I am that this has happened, I'm even more saddened by the outlashing against my rights (the rights of All Americans) by idiots that cant think for themselves.
Why is there no call for the banning of Alcohol ? that kills many people throught the course of DUI. How about cars? they kill way more people than firearms. I could write out a huge list of things that cause the death of more people than guns, but the point I'm trying to make here is that the "solution" to the above problems is EDUCATION and Tougher law enforcement, not the banning of items.
The fucking media has done nothing but fuel the fire of lieberal thinking. Over sensationalizing things, feelings not facts and all hiding behind the 1st Amendment. The first amendment was so there would be no persecution for the truth being told, not so you can say what ever the fuck you wanted unlike the belief of the majority of the people in the media. It's high time we held the media accountable for their 'crimes' against the truth. I thought at one time a reporters first duty was to the truth, apparently not, it's for the ratings or selling of papers. :evil:
buck up! cops are not here to protect you, thats YOUR responsibility.
giving away your rights only empowers those that want to do harm to you.
I responded guess we will see what happens. I was not going to bother but the more I thought about it the more PO'd I got. This is what I sent guess we will see what this idiot has to say.
Quote:
I would like to know exactly what it is that the members of our site have to be ashamed of? None of our members had anything to do with this tragedy. Schools are gun free zones as per federal law sure didn’t stop it did it? Murder is illegal sure didn’t stop this person did it? Drugs are illegal yet you can purchase them on every street corner in America so banning things obviously has no affect now does it?
The members of our site are law abiding citizens who lawfully own and use firearms. The police have no obligation to protect individuals they protect society as a whole. If you whish to be a victim and not have the means to defend yourself or your loved ones that is your choice. We choose to have the means to defend ourselves against predators as well as enjoy the sport of shooting.
The sad part about people like you is you’re too blind to realize what happened is exactly what you wanted. There was not one armed citizen at the school and the police handled it. It is you sir that should be ashamed of yourself as you got your wish and a young lady lost her life because of it.
Tim Feuerstein
Coloradoshooting.org (HunterCO)
Bravo and much more polite than anything I have to say to the arse monkey
A good reply to a BS e-mail.
Shooting is a hobby as well as a means to protect ones self.
Maybe we should let him know that Canada would more than welcome his narrow minded arse. It's just a shame that folks are this closed minded and feel the need to lash out at people like us, some professional LE, some current and or Ex MIL and a majority well trained much less skilled with our weapons.
Well he responded and the plot thickens. He signed that email with an alias he is actually in Montreal Canada go figure. I removed his real name from this email since I did not ask his permission to post it publicly.
This is my response I know I'm beating a dead horse but I have to at least make this bozo think.Quote:
Are you saying that the students should of had firearms at the time to defend themselves, and that it would of avoided the tragedy? That is rediculous. A problem cannot be solved by reinforcing elements which caused the problem in the first place, this is not complicated.
I understand that firearms are used in 'sport' and that some people just like shooting bullets for fun at a target or what have you, but if I had to choose in between getting rid of gun owning all together and avoiding them getting in the hands of dangerous people or the current situation, I would count the loses of the 'sport' instead of loses of life.
The NRA is not wrongful, gun owners who shoot little birds are within the law, but the system still permits deranged individuals to obtain the means to shoot innocent people.
It is important to look at the big picture; guns kill people. Let's wake up and get them out of the hands of civilians at the cost of the 'sport' as you call it.
Two weeks ago Kimveer Gill entered Dawson College, which I attended for three years and is down the street from where I now attend university, and shot students, killing one.
This is what woke me up.
Sinbad xxxxxxxxxx
Montreal, QC
(Now that we are having an indepth discussion, I feel like I should sign non-anonymously)
Quote:
I never implied that we should arm the students. The faculty should be armed as they are responsible for protecting the students. The very thing you support is what caused the problem in the first place. A criminal with a gun entered a gun free zone what part of that do you not understand? How often do you hear about a criminal entering a police station to take hostages or a gun store? That's right you never hear it because the people in these places are armed and the criminal has no chance of succeeding.
You clearly have not thought this out in a rational manner. You can't get rid of guns no more than you can get rid of drugs. What part of the term "Criminal" do you not understand? These people don't care what the law is they will always find ways to do harm. This is something no law can ever stop. Look at the UK they banned guns and crimes with guns are skyrocketing.
You're correct it is important to look at the big picture People kill People. A gun is an inanimate object it can not kill anybody. People kill people with guns, knives, air planes over 3,000 on September 11th, McVeigh killed 168 people with a Ryder truck and fertilizer, baseball bats, automobiles, poisons, matches etcetera.
Once again a criminal entered Dawson College and shot innocent civilians. These civilians had no way to defend themselves and became easy prey. I carry a gun 24/7 if a criminal tries to harm me I have the means to defend myself. You are advocating taking away my god given right of self preservation. The only people who would abide by a gun ban are the civilians who are not the problem in the first place.
You truly live in a fantasy world if you honestly believe that banning guns would take them away from criminals. In the end each one of us is responsible for our own safety. If you choose to cower in fear and wait for the police to come and draw a chalk line around your body that’s your choice. I and many others choose to defend ourselves and wait for the police to come draw a chalk line around the criminals body.
Tim Feuerstein
Coloradoshooting.org (HunterCO)
everything aside and in what may be a worst case of monday morning type QB'ing...
"we" have only ourselves to blame. raising a society of pvssies. submission vs fighting back at all levels.
there were plenty of people there to overpower that POS and bring things to an end. did we not learn anything from 9/11 ? prior to that day, the SOP for terrorists was to submit and let them go where they wanted and everyone will live.. well we now know that to not be the case. As soon as the one plane found out the real objective, they faught back. Sure they didn't live, but they went out fighting and that is more respectful then cowering in a corner. I quarantee you that the likes of 9/11 will never happen again. people will fight back.
we need to adopt that in everyday society. too often we look the other way when some POS does something stupid or otherwise heinous crime. Time to retake our lives and stand up for what is moraly and ethicly right.
I'd like to also add that my friend has spent lots of time in Isreal.
A good majority of the population is armed to deal with tangos.
the other crimes against humanity, such as the one that happened yeasterday are VERY VERY few in number.
tell me that having firearms in the populace is not a good thing!
I'll let the facts of pre and post CCW stats from the states that have enacted such law speak for themselves.
I sent him this email. Let's see if he writes back. I also attached the quotes from Jeff Cooper
Quote:
The only people to blame for that shooting are the psycho with the gun and the people who didn't fight back. Why is it that so many high profile shootings happen on school grounds? One reason is because no one is allowed to carry a means of self defense there. They know that they have plenty of time to do all the damage they want before the police arrive. A lot can happen in the time it takes for the cops to get there. Do you want to be completely helpless during that time?
Don't think that we as responsible gun owners believe that a child should be allowed to carry a gun. The teachers should have that option, though. There are 37 states in the US where citizens that apply for a permit have to be approved as long as they meet the training and background check requirements. There are even two states where you can carry without any type of permit. Since adopting concealed carry laws these states have shown a drop in crime. A LOT of Americans carry concealed weapons every day. How often do you hear about these people using them in any situation besides justified self defense? The people who go through the hassle of getting their permit and carrying a gun every day tend to be cautious and responsible. I'm positive that a teacher, who knows that they'll be carrying around their students, will be even more careful when they're carrying.
If people would be more willing to fight back instead of running into a corner and crying until someone comes along to save them then this kind of trajedy might be avoided. At the very least we could gain a little bit of inspiration from the people brave enough to stand up for themselves.
Colonel Jeff Cooper said it best
"Laws are not the answer. We have laws against murder. We have laws against kidnapping. We have laws against extortion. And murder, kidnapping, and extortion are on the rise. The answer, it seems to me, is wrath. Let the thug take his chances with an alert, prepared, and angry citizenry. It may very well spoil his whole career."
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
That’s what I am talking about if that POS would have tried that in Israel he wouldn’t have made it ten feet through the door before somebody lit his A$$ up with an AK47.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7idl
I don't understand this lay down or you might get hurt mentality. I have people say if I was to get robbed at my shop to just give them the money it's only money. No way in hell that will happen If I get robbed they are going to get a lead dinner courtesy of my G27.
I love that reasoning. Usually said by people who only know hunger when they are on a self-imposed diet.
Can I skip paying my taxes? It's only money.
Can I skip paying my mortgage? It's only money.
If I don't pay my taxes men with guns will come and put me in jail.
If I don't pay my mortgage men with guns will come and throw me out of my house.
If it's only money why are the guys with badges allowed to use their guns?
If the money is that important when it's totally non-violent then why should a guy showing me a knife or gun supposed to have more rights to the money I use to pay my taxes and mortgage than I have?
It's only money, then the guy shoots or stabs you to try and make sure you can't testify against him. Maybe he won't. How do I know his intentions, other than to threaten my life?
Brian, Please tell me you aren't blaming the officers at the School!!!! There is only one person to blame. The jerk that did this crime. I understand the statement "let's all trust them to be are only means of protection" but failed or not failed breach they could not sit by and let this go on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha'man
I think what he said was spoken with a lack of information. At the time we did not know what the cops did, the girls in the classroom had been sexually assaulted and the killer had broken off communications. Negotiations had failed. Action was their only recourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSparkens
The cops WERE trying their best.
The irony here is that the public chastizes the Police for doing nothing (re: Columbine) and now they will crucify them for actually acting. Add insult to injury, we have this Canadian Jerk Off thinking we, the members of this club are at least as responsible.
Honestly folks if you were not there and not privy to the information they had on hand, don't try to be the arm chair computer commando, you'll do nothing more than insult those who have and are serving and make yourself look like an arse hole!
My first response was this. It was easy as to get a response. So far no response.
"I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Can you explain what you mean by this?"
Now this morning I get this one.
Subject: Good Place To Shoot
From: ilnasah@hotmail.com
Dearest Gun-nuts,
Did it ever occur to you that the name Coloradoshooting.org is the dumbest name for a pro gun website. You people are a bunch of gun-toting redneck idiots. Sure you have your guns to protect you from burglers, Al-qaeida, and same sex couples, but who is going to protect you and your children from each other. It seems to me the most popular place in Colorado to go shooting is in your own schools. Please do the world a favour and find another form of recreation. May I suggest fencing?
Sincerely,
Ilnasah"
My poor attempt at a response,
"Touche!
Colorado Shooting is also the title of a great magazine! It belongs to the Colorado State Shooting Association.
Actually if we called it Colorado Fencing people here would think we built and or installed fences. We don't do that. And if we called it something else people who used Google would never find us."
That's it right? You were disturbed by the event of the past two days in Bailey, did an internet search and found us, right? As far as school shootings go. We have quite a few members who live there and were touched by this tragedy. I suggest you contact them and offer your support and council.
You might also consult with John Giduck. He is the foremost authority on the terror attack at the Beslan School. He can also give you some insight as to the impact private gun ownership has on such events. You can contact him here: http://www.terroratbeslan.com/
Thanks for taking the time to tell us your opinion."
And for the record, I think the police did the right thing. There was an crime in progress. The nut was systematically raping these girls. Something had to be done. One death is to many. But it could have been worse if they had waited. If you haven't studied the attack at Beslan you need to. The current doctrine is, only negotiate until you're ready to counter attack. Then attack. Waiting does no good except to allow the bad guys more time to prepare, and or continue with their criminal activities.
I'm sure they will all relive that moment the rest of their lives.
Anyone have a link to this data?Quote:
Originally Posted by 7idl
-thanks
I think I actually lost some IQ points reading that email. Seriously....Quote:
[poke]
Whenever I see this bumper sticker I get a chuckle:
"Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat!"
:mrgreen:
I think this bumper sticker should be sent free of charge to all the Gunphobes who email this site.
[quote="BadShot"]The irony here is that the public chastizes the Police for doing nothing (re: Columbine) and now they will crucify them for actually acting. Add insult to injury, we have this Canadian Jerk Off thinking we, the members of this club are at least as responsible.
Honestly folks if you were not there and not privy to the information they had on hand, don't try to be the arm chair computer commando, you'll do nothing more than insult those who have and are serving and make yourself look like an arse hole![/quote
Sorry, if that sounded negative in anyway, Brian and I know each other and I was just letting him know how that sounded to me. Your response is right on.
We all are aware at how this will play out with anti gun people, and with the find of the AR I'm sure this will leed to someone putting a bill up to change the gun laws. this is why us as gun owners must not be silent.
Quote "You people are a bunch of gun-toting redneck idiots"
Is that me? Is that us? Does toting a gun make me an Idiot? Or a Red neck? Darn... I should take up photography!!!!!
But then again... people use cameras for pornography...
BAD CAMERAS!!
Maybe I should take up fishing.......... :roll:
Umm, without me wasting too much of my time reading into it, you might be able to start here and get some facts:Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndChildhood
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
let me know if it helps...
I am very sadden of the events that took place in Bailey.
I am not offended by people that have an intelligent opinion about their opposing beliefs about gun control. What does offend me is being called gun-nut, redneck or insinuating that my intelligence is less than theirs.
This is my argument:
During the 20th century, over 100 million civilians were killed by their own governments, more than in all 20th century wars combined. In each case, extermination followed gun confiscation.
·1911: Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.
·1929: The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, 40-60 million “class enemies,” unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.
·1935: China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million Chinese “class enemies,” unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.
·1938: Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, Catholics, Gypsies and others, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated in Nazi controlled Europe.
·1956: Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million “class enemies,” unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.
·1966-1976: China still had gun control. Millions of more “class enemies,” still unable to defend themselves, were exterminated in Mao's "Cultural Revolution".
·1990s: Rwanda established gun control. In 100 days in 1994, over 800,000 Tutsis, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated by machete-wielding Hutus backed by armed government militias.
"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
Amendment II, US Constitution
GearHead,
That info/argument is taken from JPFO and their Innocents Betrayed dvd, is it not? Good stuff!!!
From a book I was reading... I think the title was "Enemies Foreign and Domestic". Stuck with me..
Sounds like I should look into "Innocents Betrayed".. What is JPFO?
Looked it up on the internet..
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
Also: http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead
:cool:
I agree that the police took the correct action. I was talking to my better half about this last night and the fact of the matter, almost nation wide, is that SWAT and Tactical Response Teams are not funded sufficiently, the average office does not receive enough training and trigger time for my personal satisfaction. I would venture to say that avid shootist are on average better trained and have more trigger time than the typical rural SWAT or TRT groups.
I really would hate to see us, a community with active LEO and Military members second guess the guys and gals that were there. Those people will as BBadmin pointed out have to live with that experience the rest of their lives. My sympathies go to them as well as the family. This hits close to home for me, for all intents this could very well have been my daughter. I know that I would want the police to take action as soon as they could rather than be pacifistic.
Are we gun nuts.. yeah, why not? Are we Rednecks.. uh, have you seen Karl at a shoot? (Sorry, Karl, it was too easy to pass up) ... but we are the people who will not be victims, who will not stand by while others are harmed in our presence. We are those people that the founding fathers intended to uphold and honor the intent if not the letter of the Second Amendment.
So to the narrow minded and judgmental I say, fine, you are so very allowed and encouraged to hold your opinion of us. You may even voice that opinion, but do not expect that we will stand idly by as those who purport to protect our nation by continuing to confine and restrict our inherent rights drag our nation into fear and closed minded ignorance.
God I f**king hate hippies.
HunterCO great job in answering the moonbat. Thank you. Did you notice he said he spent 3 years in college but his grammar sounded more like an 8th grader if that.
These people need to wake up and smell the coffee. A lot of the problems in this country can be traced right to the liberal mindset. Michelle Malkin, Anne Coulter and others have written volumns on this subject.
Another point about the liberal mindset in this case is the victim status of todays society. I (may be wrong) but I believe it was Col. Cooper who had a article on this a few years ago. He went on to say that attacks like this did not and would not have happened years ago. For the simple fact that the teachers, kids, janitors or anyone else in the area would have beat is a## into the ground. There was none of this hiding under desks and locking down schools.
As a Native of Colorado living outside the state for now anyway and not seeing first hand what happened in Baily it looks to me that the Police did what I would want them to do if my daughter were there. Attack and kill the SOB that is hurting those kids.
I wasn't precisely blaming the officers, but based on what little I know of SWAT tactics, a properly executed room takedown should have disoriented the BG enough that he wouldn't have gotten shots off before he was taken out by the SWAT officers. Shit happens and things don't always go down perfectly, but us armchair commandos find it easiest to look at the officers first. In all honesty, I wrote that as more of a response to the initial email that BBadmin got, saying that the police should be the only ones to do the jobs that require guns. My point was that sometimes they aren't all that good at it, as possibly shown in Bailey, and that it's foolish to put all your trust in them as the writer of the email believes we should.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSparkens
Hiya Paul! :mrgreen:
Brian