The "Jobs" plan

Just curious what folks reactions to BarryO's Jobs speech is.
I didn't watch it but read "highlights" and heard some critiques.

Our country is broke, we are in a tremendous deficit which means too much going out and not enough coming in. He is proposing "tax cuts" which will do little for peoples incomes, avg. 1500 per year of "extra income". That equates to a hair over 100.00 per month which realistically is a drop in the bucket for most. Sure it is something but what is the long term cost?
So as a country we are broke and next year even less will be going to .gov.
Incentives for employers to hire? How many of those incentives will go directly to Unions?
Government cannot create jobs.
It just sounds like another "stimulus" package which we all know was an epic FAIL.



It has been said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

TARP Jr. More proselytizing from Obamao the Profit. Excuse me while I barf.

Obammas a joke and I never listen to anything he has to say.

What's 450 billion $$$$.

Worst president ever....

It cracks me up that anyone expects the government to effect the economy in a significant manor. I don't care if its Obama, Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. When it comes down to it our country has a crappy economy because in the past 30 years companies found much cheaper ways to manufacture other places in the world. If we don't "make" anything here then how can we expect to employee people? You want to shoot some blame it has more to do with company's valuing their profit margin over any type of patriotism to this country.

The government can give them tax breaks and they will horde more money, then can attempt to increase taxes on the rich and they will just leave the country. Please enlighten me as to something the GOV can do to effect this?

The entire thing was a joke.  “Pass this bill now” 17 f’ing times?  Seriously? We haven’t even seen the bill (not that it matters)  “It will be paid for” BULL Shite.
 
Convenient how this “credible threat to NYC and Washington came out 1 hour before his speech and that was all the left was talking about afterwards.
 
The thing that boils my blood more then anything was GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt sitting in the box next to that amazon Michelle.  The guy is supposed to be our job czar and just got done sending jobs in the new xRay division to China. He is sitting on billions in foreign assets to avoid having to pay US taxes on and he is the guy who is advising on jobs in the country?
 
Try they all for treason.
 
 

And what little sneaky things are riding along with this bill???

Going to take a lot more than some bill to create jobs in the country. Time is the key. Small businesses are scared. Healthcare issues the economy and the stability of our leaders are all questionable. That doesn't make people want to hire unless they absolutely need the bodies. Another stimulus plan is all bongo is really proposing. The last was an epic fail and this one will be too if passed.

until we penalize companies for moving jobs outside of the country we will continue to go broke.

if you can make doodad here for $5 but choose to make offshore at 1$ we need to charge an extra $4 tarrif to remove the lure to move the job of making the doodad offshore.


argue/discuss/debate

Any job the government "creates" is paid for with money confiscated from the private sector.

This means that a private sector person is unable to create a job because the government has stolen the money.

This is as idiotic an sanfrannan and her "$1 of unemployment creates $1.50" statement.

Government does not create anything except for more government. Just about everything the government does could be done better with less cost in the private sector.

I can't wait until this jackass is out of office.

The government cannot create jobs...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mtn.man

And what little sneaky things are riding along with this bill???

---

Precisely.

Great point Roberth: .gov "jobs" are just funds shifted. No real money earned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tor Larson

[Buffet] says the guys secretary pays more in taxes- false. Buffet doesn't collect a salary so his gains are taxed at a lower rate.

---

It's Warren Buffet who says his secretary pays a higher percentage of her income in taxes than he does. It's precisely because Buffet is so rich and has so much money in the market that all of his profit is in the form of long term capital gains, which is taxed at a flat 15%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital..._United_States

In real absolute terms Warren assuredly writes a larger check to the Treasury each year, his point is that as a portion of his take home pay, he has to give up a smaller percentage to uncle sam than does people who make normal wages and pay payroll taxes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle1996735.ece

Facts are for fun.

H.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rooskibar03

The entire thing was a joke. “Pass this bill now” 17 f’ing times? Seriously? We haven’t even seen the bill (not that it matters) “It will be paid for” BULL Shite.

Convenient how this “credible threat to NYC and Washington came out 1 hour before his speech and that was all the left was talking about afterwards.

The thing that boils my blood more then anything was GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt sitting in the box next to that amazon Michelle. The guy is supposed to be our job czar and just got done sending jobs in the new xRay division to China. He is sitting on billions in foreign assets to avoid having to pay US taxes on and he is the guy who is advising on jobs in the country?

Try they all for treason.

---

+1..I was wondering if anoyone else saw that. The F$!$&$! media should be all over that POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....................[Bang]

Party On Wayne

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mobat555

It cracks me up that anyone expects the government to effect the economy in a significant manor. I don't care if its Obama, Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. When it comes down to it our country has a crappy economy because in the past 30 years companies found much cheaper ways to manufacture other places in the world. If we don't "make" anything here then how can we expect to employee people? You want to shoot some blame it has more to do with company's valuing their profit margin over any type of patriotism to this country.

The government can give them tax breaks and they will horde more money, then can attempt to increase taxes on the rich and they will just leave the country. Please enlighten me as to something the GOV can do to effect this?

---

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

until we penalize companies for moving jobs outside of the country we will continue to go broke.

if you can make doodad here for $5 but choose to make offshore at 1$ we need to charge an extra $4 tarrif to remove the lure to move the job of making the doodad offshore.


argue/discuss/debate

---

Why does it cost $5 to make a widget here and only $1 to make it somewhere else?

Instead of penalizing businesses (which is why our economy sucks in the first place) we should incentivize them to stay here in the first place.

Get the government out of business, and unleash the free market.

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
Agreed
2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
You expect U.S. government bailouts, U.S. government protections with no sense of obligation to the same.

3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
None, But if they are going to fold, crash and die... they shouldn't ask for mine.

4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?
If you are going to leave, leave completely. Renounce citizenship and GTFO.

capitalism isn't about win or you lose... if the company fucks up great, FAIL and Die.
Don't sit there telling me you are taking Jobs from Americans and move shit overseas but then expect free trade to bring the crap here and when it won't sell expect those same Americans to bail you out.

Kinda like your wife fucking your best friend and asking you to wash the sheets afterwards.
not happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sharpienads

Why does it cost $5 to make a widget here and only $1 to make it somewhere else?

---

Umm we don't believe in child labor sweat shops?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

Umm we don't believe in child labor sweat shops?

---

Why are those a bad thing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

Why are those a bad thing?

---

/ignored

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mobat555

It cracks me up that anyone expects the government to effect the economy in a significant manor. I don't care if its Obama, Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. When it comes down to it our country has a crappy economy because in the past 30 years companies found much cheaper ways to manufacture other places in the world. If we don't "make" anything here then how can we expect to employee people? You want to shoot some blame it has more to do with company's valuing their profit margin over any type of patriotism to this country.

The government can give them tax breaks and they will horde more money, then can attempt to increase taxes on the rich and they will just leave the country. Please enlighten me as to something the GOV can do to effect this?

---

If you don't think government can affect the economy significantly, you need to only read what you just wrote to change your mind. The government doesn't produce jobs, maybe, but it sure as hell can significantly affect the economy. Some examples:

• TARP - $850B wasted, basically
• Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac
• Huge corporate bailouts
• Monetizing debt
• Obamacare
• Predatory corporate tax rates that drives production, and jobs, overseas
• ad nauseum

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. HERE'S a great primer on government spending and the economy:

http://www.heritage.org/static/repor...370&h=370&as=1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

until we penalize companies for moving jobs outside of the country we will continue to go broke.

if you can make doodad here for $5 but choose to make offshore at 1$ we need to charge an extra $4 tarrif to remove the lure to move the job of making the doodad offshore.


argue/discuss/debate

---

Smoot-Hawley worked so well, we should do it again!!!

Better yet, lets make it better for the companies to work here rather then penalize them for moving. We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Yup, if I have to fork over 40% of my profits to the .gov you better believe I want bailouts out of that. Fuck both those things. Lower the tax rate and no bailouts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

/ignored

---

LOL ok. You need to look a bit closer at the problem of the sweat shops and do some logical thinking. But if you really think paying some of the highest wages to people in those areas and giving them a better living then they would have had with out those "sweat shops" is bad... ah well.

ETA: Are you for minimum wage as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sharpienads

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?

---

and

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sharpienads

Why does it cost $5 to make a widget here and only $1 to make it somewhere else?

Instead of penalizing businesses (which is why our economy sucks in the first place) we should incentivize them to stay here in the first place.

Get the government out of business, and unleash the free market.

---

Bingo! That's the winning solution right there.

The below is totally off the mark and it's part of the problem, not the solution:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

until we penalize companies for moving jobs outside of the country we will continue to go broke.

if you can make doodad here for $5 but choose to make offshore at 1$ we need to charge an extra $4 tarrif to remove the lure to move the job of making the doodad offshore.


argue/discuss/debate

---

tmleadr03 nailed the answer to this one.

The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world at just a hair under 40%. 40 freakin percent, folks. You people are constantly harping on freedom. Then why would you penalize corporations for taking advantage of a better business climate in another country? Why not make it advantageous for companies to do business here? Why not make the US the most business friendly country in the world and take business/production away from other countries?

“United States companies are now in the position of trying to compete in the 21st century world economy with a 20th century tax system,” said Ho. “Dozens of countries around the world—including many of the United States’ closest trading partners—have realized that sky-high corporate tax rates are an economic dead end. Now more than ever, Americans want to see policies that will help create increased growth, more jobs, and higher standards of living – exactly the things that a lower and more streamlined corporate tax system can help achieve.”

Rest of the story HERE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
Agreed
Agree to... um, agree.

2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
You expect U.S. government bailouts, U.S. government protections with no sense of obligation to the same.
Who said I expect bailouts? If a company fails, it should go through bankruptcy. Too big to fail is a load of BS. Businesses in foreign countries are subject to the host nation's laws. I still don't see how doing what is in your best interest or your company's is unpatriotic. And if doing whatever the government tells you or your business to do, or just accepting whatever happens, is unpatriotic, than I guess I am unpatriotic, too.

3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
None, But if they are going to fold, crash and die... they shouldn't ask for mine.
Agreed. And the government shouldn't give it to them.

4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?
If you are going to leave, leave completely. Renounce citizenship and GTFO.
I have no problem with that, but if your government has become hostile to a certain economic class, they would be in the wrong, not you for leaving.

capitalism isn't about win or you lose... if the company fucks up great, FAIL and Die.
Don't sit there telling me you are taking Jobs from Americans and move shit overseas but then expect free trade to bring the crap here and when it won't sell expect those same Americans to bail you out.

I agree. But again, why are businesses leaving in the first place?

Kinda like your wife fucking your best friend and asking you to wash the sheets afterwards.
not happening.

---

I'm not so much defending business as I am blaming government.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
Agreed
2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
You expect U.S. government bailouts, U.S. government protections with no sense of obligation to the same.

3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
None, But if they are going to fold, crash and die... they shouldn't ask for mine.

4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?
If you are going to leave, leave completely. Renounce citizenship and GTFO.

capitalism isn't about win or you lose... if the company fucks up great, FAIL and Die.
Don't sit there telling me you are taking Jobs from Americans and move shit overseas but then expect free trade to bring the crap here and when it won't sell expect those same Americans to bail you out.

Kinda like your wife fucking your best friend and asking you to wash the sheets afterwards.
not happening.

---

Lot of FAIL in your logic here, Byte. Stop and think about what you're writing and how your views fit into our constitutional freedoms and privileges.

For the record, I've seen few people here - actually none that I can think of - arguing FOR bailouts and such. I sure as hell don't. I agree...conduct your business in a way that promotes growth, or fail. It's simple.

Businesses are leaving because they can beat a 9 year old kid into working 14 hours a day for 10 cents in an often deadly or dangerous environment and then import that same product into the country with no repercussions.
You think Thailand is offering any corporate bailouts?
you forget, I have seen these places.

I am all for companies doing what they want, don't get me wrong. but when your shit collapses do come running back to the same country you dumped for help.


as far as blame... its our fault, everyone, Government, Corporate and Citizenry.
everyone took advantage and we let our government do this to us.

We have to have higher corporate taxes to pay for Monica's dress, airforce one vacations and fat legislative expense accounts and lobbyists. Because you know its just to hard to make ends meet on 174K a year and a fat fucking expense account. We have to maximize profit margins even if it means moving the factory overseas and employing 10 year-olds so we don't have to give them PPE from the heavy metals/chemicals. Safety is not cost effective.

and yes, I am all for a minimum wage because I don't want to live with 40 relatives in a single room apartment and share a bag of rice for a month.

my point is that corruption at all levels is eating away at the base economy and the only ones that will survive is the corporate and political elite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Lot of FAIL in your logic here, Byte. Stop and think about what you're writing and how your views fit into our constitutional freedoms and privileges.

For the record, I've seen few people here - actually none that I can think of - arguing FOR bailouts and such. I sure as hell don't. I agree...conduct your business in a way that promotes growth, or fail. It's simple.

---

so you are saying that when GM Ford and Chrysler moved shit out of the country because it was cheaper, their quality failed, sales dropped and then sat in congress begging money it was OK?

I didn't see Toyota or BMW asking for a handout...


someone ban me again... this place went to pot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

Businesses are leaving because they can beat a 9 year old kid into working 14 hours a day for 10 cents in an often deadly or dangerous environment and then import that same product into the country with no repercussions.
You think Thailand is offering any corporate bailouts?
you forget, I have seen these places.

I am all for companies doing what they want, don't get me wrong. but when your shit collapses do come running back to the same country you dumped for help.


as far as blame... its our fault, everyone, Government, Corporate and Citizenry.
everyone took advantage and we let our government do this to us.

We have to have higher corporate taxes to pay for Monica's dress, airforce one vacations and fat legislative expense accounts and lobbyists. Because you know its just to hard to make ends meet on 174K a year and a fat fucking expense account. We have to maximize profit margins even if it means moving the factory overseas and employing 10 year-olds so we don't have to give them PPE from the heavy metals/chemicals. Safety is not cost effective.

and yes, I am all for a minimum wage because I don't want to live with 40 relatives in a single room apartment and share a bag of rice for a month.

my point is that corruption at all levels is eating away at the base economy and the only ones that will survive is the corporate and political elite.

---

If setting an arbitrary wage level promotes a good economy then why leave it at 7.50 an hour? Wouldn't 15 an hour entry wage be better?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

so you are saying that when GM Ford and Chrysler moved shit out of the country because it was cheaper, their quality failed, sales dropped and then sat in congress begging money it was OK?

I didn't see Toyota or BMW asking for a handout...


someone ban me again... this place went to pot

---

No he is not, in point of fact he specifically stated in his post that it was NOT ok and no one here was advocating for a bail out.

As to Toyota and BMW, in response to the domestic bailouts they actually did get some from their respective governments. And health care in Germany (a big cost for a company) is subsidized by their government in the form of socialist health care. They can do this, in part, because we are such a strong military presence over there.

I am sorry to hear you cannot deal with alternate opinions easily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

If setting an arbitrary wage level promotes a good economy then why leave it at 7.50 an hour? Wouldn't 15 an hour entry wage be better?

---

+1

Minimum wage is nothing but a government set price floor on labor. Labor follows the laws of economics (like supply and demand) just like everything else. A minimum wage upsets the market equilibrium for labor.

So you really think foreign auto companies moved their factories here outta kindness?

I submit they moved here due to government incentives that would make it financially acceptable to move their factories here and hire American workers. So in a sense, I'd say they did get a government handout...but one that works in favor of Americans.

I won't speak to the personal choices you made in your life. That's a problem you have to deal with and minimum wage doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.

Corporations and other business exist for one reason and one reason only. Profit...to either the owner or shareholders.

Everything else that comes about as a result of a corporation existing exists to maximize profit. That's pretty much how capitalism works. In a true free-market environment a business that follows a predatory business model will be taken care of by supply and demand. They'll either price themselves out of the market or if they take advantage of their employees past a certain point the employees will look for work elsewhere. It's Darwinism of the corporate world.

If you don't understand or like that, maybe you're the one who should find a place that's more in line with your beliefs.

And, if you don't like the way a company does business, don't spend your money there. When enough people agree, they go out of business.

The free market is a pretty simple idea, and it's not evil or immoral. Unfortunately, our government seems to think they can "fix" it, when it was them that effed it up in the first place.

and this is the very same crowd that was bitching about call centers (The AT&T/TMobile/Verizon thing) being moved out of the country...

[ROFL1]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sharpienads

And, if you don't like the way a company does business, don't spend your money there. When enough people agree, they go out of business.

---

It is amazing how this does not connect with people. My mom thinks Walmart is the devil incarnate. Yet she continues to shop there. I just don't get it. If I disagree with a company on ideas or policies or anything like that I just will not support them. Hell, I do this on an individual level as well. Case in point is the Dixie Chicks. I will still change the radio station when they come on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

and this is the very same crowd that was bitching about call centers being moved out of the country...

[ROFL1]

---

Well, yes. But how is that not in agreement with anything I have posted?

Wow! tough crowd on this topic.

I am always divided on these issues. My libertarian side says Laissez Faire. But my conservative side says protectionism. But I think the libertarian side would be better for all concerned.