http://www.mynews4.com/content/assee...e/default.aspx
Looks like 20 killed and 50 injured. Toll sure to rise. :(
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http://www.mynews4.com/content/assee...e/default.aspx
Looks like 20 killed and 50 injured. Toll sure to rise. :(
A good friend left just 5 minutes before it happened.
Absolutely horrible.
The wife and I had a conversation the other night about why I love airshows but refuse to go. It is because several years back it seemed like they were dropping one into the crowd at every other show. She almost had me convinced to start going again until she hear this on the news and called me about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zusClmg4IQg
looked bad :(
Looks like just 2 confirmed dead so far and 20 injured
http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/st...z4QsIoZ1A.cspx
78 was the year I went. Growing up I always saw those Champion spark plug posters that had all the winners. Pikes Peak hill Climb, Indy 500 and the Reno air races.... 3 of us drove out from Oregon to watch.
This may be the end.
I have a good friend that races there every year. He races the Mcdonald racer T-6. Thoughts and prayers go out to the whole Reno Air Race community.
One of my Iron Mountian drivers goes out every year to this event. Thought and prayers are with everyone involved.
Truly unfortunate. Reno Races are on my bucket list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
Better save it for last...
just sayin'
very sad day. part of any sport is accidents, just like football, basketball, baseball, nascar, boat racing, NHRA, etc etc. sadly, aviation is usually a all or nothing event. prayers to the families and victims.
this is very bad.
the reports are saying he had a malfunction and rode it in to get as far away from the spectators as he could, otherwise a hundred could have died.
holy crap this is bad.
prayers to all those affected.
sad stuff.
amazing though how every news source was posting up something different. I saw stories ranging from "dozens killed" to "75 injuries" to the actual report of 2 confirmed dead.
Some have said that he lost part of the elevator trim tab. But I don't think that fits well with the plane's movement. He goes into a wide right hand barrel roll and carries it through into the ground. I'm betting heart attack or stroke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elhuero
Here is a massive picture of the crash. Lower left corner, there is a guy in a red shirt who is the luckiest SOB on the planet right now.
http://www.wbur.org/files/2011/09/0917_crash.jpg?r
wow that is an amazing photo ridge. crazy how much damage a small airplane can cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
true. maybe he was out and didn't know he was going to die, and it was blind luck that kept the crash from killing more.
they'll investigate and figure it out.
on the good side, hopefully this will give more ground to silence the 9/11 truthers screaming "where's the wreckage!!!?"
they'll just point out how much crap is flying from that little plane crash, and why isn't there a mountain's worth from that hollow aluminum can that hit the Pentagon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elhuero
Edit:
Looks like the tailwheel is down in this photograph. I wonder if it was a hydraulics issue. Standard P-51s have mechanical controls, but a high speed plane like this would benefit from the extra power and speed of hydraulics...
http://i.imgur.com/zFHcm.jpg
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...82.php#photo-6
up to 9 people now. 6 on tarmac, pilot, and 2 at the hospital.
Technically, the pilot was on the tarmac, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper7
Sorry, too soon.
Jimmy Leeward was the pilot. 74 years old
http://www.seattlepi.com/mediaManage...628&height=471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
yeah, people like that are immune to facts.
I hope it was a mechanical failure, and not a health issue. not that it means anything to the dead, but better for the memory the pilot.
looks like the engine still had power. I am guessing first a mechanical problem with the controls. not sure how those racing planes are rigged up other than high speed low drag, as light as they can get with as much power as they can get. but the tailwheel should not be down. Possibly fly-by-wire technology in these. I'll do some more research, but that would be the lightest thing for these planes.
second guess is medical problem, but that doesn't explain the tailwheel, so not really too confident in that one.
Looking more like mechanical. There is a report he called a "Mayday" which is standard procedure to call and move outside the racing area.
^^Elevator trim tab. Used to provide constant force on the surface without the pilot needing to hold the stick off center.
Could that be enough to have sent it into that barrel roll?
That was my thought-would loss of a trim tab be enough to cause a catastrophic loss? Aileron yes- trim tab?? Control surface flutter?
I caught a bit of an interview last night of the pilot a couple days prior-he made reference to Friday being a big day and pulling out all the stops or similar.
Maybe a mod that went bad?
Rough summer for 'Stangs and Fortress's.
If it just broke off, I'd assume he'd abandon the race and make an emergency landing. But if it broke and held on like that, it could cause a lot of drag and uneven force applied to the controls. At the very least it would start a roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
The father of a friend from Military School, the first man who taught me to fly in his Stinson, was 100 feet from where the plane hit. Luckily he survived without a scratch. (Probably a big mental scar though)
Elevator flutter is my guess, based on that picture of the elevator.
Flutter can rip the controls up and could explain the trim tab separation. Those things do 500 MPH, which is probably 100 more than the original design was engineered for. I'm sure the elevator and ailerons are still covered in fabric and dope and it wouldn't take much imbalance to get things fluttering at that speed.
I got an email that the NTSB is on scene; I can't imagine that they're going to have much evidence left to look through. The video showed the terminal dive and I bet the speed was easily 400 MPH; it was really going fast when it hit.
Godspeed, Jimmy. You were a good one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrymrc
just saw this on the news as well. not good when your trip tab goes. I wonder if there was any contact anywhere with another aircraft.
or possibly hydraulic blow, high pressure could do that (most systems 3000 PSI), then loss of pressure might drop the tail wheel. main gear would probably have mechanical lock ups and would be released with emergency gear extension. so pretty good scenario there.
no, just a trim tab would not be enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
With the experience this guy has, I am thinking it has to be total loss of control. he came in almost vertical. complete loss of the controls, with the trim tab in a nose down position.
because if he had any kind of roll control he would have rolled it 90 degrees, kicked in hard rudder and flow it knife edge away from the crowd. obviously everything happens super fast and they are pretty low
It looks like he went into a right hand barrel roll and came out coming down vertically. Possibly an accelerated stall led to that condition. Pulling back the throttle isn't going to do a damn thing, and if the hydraulics did blow out or the piston hyper extended when the trim tab ripped off, then it could cause low pressure throughout the system, slowing any other control movements.
Flight controls on a Mustang are not hydraulically powered.
im pretty sure that the tail wheel is always down on the P-51's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety Bird
and their wings are also not shortened by 5 feet. there are huge differences between a stock mustang from WW2 and what these guys put together. anything goes. they could be mechanical, they could be hydraulic, they could be electric or a combination. depends on what kind of money they have, what weight savings it gives them and the best control they would get.
no its not. you can see in the crash photos the gear doors are down.Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick0685
http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/t...19/Ay73466.jpg
here it is normally
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9TZRG7nzml...t_Saturday.jpg
The P-51 tail wheel retracts electrically. Too far to run heavy hydraulic lines, even more so in an air racing aircraft.Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick0685
I have been to the Reno Races many times. I was there in 99 when Gary Levitz (the furniture guy) went in with Miss Ashley II, another P-51.
The Galloping Ghost was one of the coolest racing P-51s out there. Chopped wings, new canopy, ect and no radiator under the belly. Like Rare Bear and Drago Red, it looked fast just sitting there and sounded even cooler burning 3-4,000 gallons per hour of gas at max RPM.
It is a shame to see something like this happen.
I am glad Jimmy was able to at least keep it from hitting the main stands. He was one of the coolest cats out there.
I hope the races continue on, but I would not be surprised if they dont.
I hope they do as well. It is one event I would like to go back to. It was on my retirement bucket list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser
I either drive or fly. Always an empty seat avail if I drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrymrc
There was an F-86 that went in at Broomfield, like 15 years ago. Trying to compete with the F-16s going way too low for this altitude.
Heard you might be able to hitch a ride for gas in the Mig 17 that flys out there.
Looks like there are some body/parts in that photo, but it could be wiring or ???
Nasty. Trim tab flapping around can fudge you up, but this bad? To cause catostrophic failure.
Every air show seems to be a risk nowadays.