I'm wondering what is the smallest caliber that people feel is ethical to use for elk hunting.
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I'm wondering what is the smallest caliber that people feel is ethical to use for elk hunting.
JMO from my 30+ years of elk hunting...
It sort of depends on what you are hunting and your hunting style, ie, trophy bull vs meat cow, dark timber vs long range, etc.
I have taken maybe them with bow, with 30-06 and with 300 WM. Obviously I like 308 caliber. I have seen good shots take nice little 5x5 bulls in dark timber using an open sighted 30-30 at maybe 50 yards.
One key is to use top quality bullets and know where to hit them. If you can discipline yourself to take only heart-lung shots at under 150 yards, then a 95-100 gr Nosler Partition in a .243 would probably do OK. But if you want to take a trophy if it appears with a raking shot if that is all that is presented, use nothing less than a 308 caliber and 180 gr top quality bullets, ie, Nosler Partition, Barnes, Trophy Bonded, etc.
1600-1800 foot lbs of energy at point of impact has been suggested by pros. That is a good suggestion.
I have been wondering this exact same question, I haven't hunted before. I am picking up a new rifle and am wondering is a 6.8 spc will do the job (hitting in the right spots of course)?
I think you will be limited by range. I'm not sure if you would have enough energy beyond 100 yds...
On a bull? I'd say it depends on skill level like ridgewalker said. Can you get a 6.8 or .243 to work? Sure, but it's not going to bust up a shoulder blade and keep moving on to the vitals.
For the purposes of this thread, I'll say a minimum ethical cartridge for the average skill level would be a .270 with a nice "hard" 150 grain bullet. An '06 with a 180 would be better. [Tooth]
270
alot of elk have fallen with it.
I prefer a 308 or 30.06., then you have the people who carry bazookas and miss.
More shooters than hunters in the woods these days.
Thanks for the input guys! I asked the caliber question, because my friend drew a bull elk tag, but fell on hard times and can't afford a proper rifle. Our best solution is to mount a 3x9 scope that he already has onto my SKS. I ordered a 5 round clip and some 123 gr Federal Fusion to button up the package. Can anyone offer me thoughts or concerns about this setup? Thanks in advance!
Wouldn't try it.
Barrow someones decent hunting rifle.
Well, you're in .30-30 range, so like we were saying, wait until they step forward so you can put one behind the shoulder blade to try for the heart or double lung shot. Neck / head shot will certainly bring them down if you think your SKS is accurate enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailgunner
For the sake of the animal, please be willing to pass up a less than perfect shot. This is a tough thing to do. Here's a good read on anatomy:
http://www.dundeesportsmansclub.com/...tplacement.pdf
Last thought - how's your tracking abilities?
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailgunner
When are you going? Hit me up, I may have a solution.
Thanks
Thought about spending $80-100 on a mosin? ballistics of 30-06.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailgunner
I was just going to ask; has anyone here taken an elk or mule deer with a mosin? Seems like the 7.62x54R rounds would be good for a well place 150 yard shot. That is assuming you the shooter is confident of POI for the rifle and ammunition.Quote:
Originally Posted by brianakell
7.62x54??? make sure you find expanding bullets. not only would it be unethical, it is the law.
sks for elk? i agree with a previous post, find something else. 7.62x39 may be in the 30-30 power range, but very few people would call a 30-30 adequate for elk. sure it will kill them, but if your shot is beyond 100 yards, or you dont put the bullet right in the ribcage you will be tracking for a while. i dont have an sks but my guess is that they are not super accurate. the old rule of thumb i remember is 1000 ftlbs for deer and 1500 for elk.
i havent used a rifle on an elk in a long time, but i have killed more elk with a 270 with 130gr sierras than most people have killed. only lost one, a facing straight on shot and the problem was the shooter.
i would say 308 winchester is a minimum.
Agreed. FMJ/surplus ammunition is inappropriate for hunting. I was thinking more of some soft point. Seems as if the round is capable as long as the accuracy is there. Still wondering if anyone here has ever taken an elk or gone deer hunting with a Mosin. Mostly just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerhenry
Thanks for the link Zombie Steve, that's some good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve
As for passing on a less than perfect shot, we have discussed that and agree completely. I told him that I think 100 yards would be as long of a shot that I would feel comfortable with given this set up. We will have a better idea when we sight it in at the range. I am confident in my tracking skills, but I would never risk loosing the animal due to a risky shot.
I have my deer tag for the same season and GMU as my friend has his elk tag. We will be hunting together and I'll have my .308 winchester, so if we are close enough to each other he will have the option of grabbing my rifle. He will also be putting enough rounds through the .308 at the range to feel comfortable with it. Thanks guys!
203g soft point Barnaul. out of a 91/30 (cheaper these days anyway) still 1500 ft/lbs at 250 yards.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo019.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
So... what you're saying is that the 18" POF in 308 is going to be my rifle...
Here is a link to "Elk Hunting University" on the CDOW website, should be able to find most of what you are looking for there
http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...allistics.aspx
Costs a lot of money to go elk hunting, I prefer a caliber that I know will anchor the animal, no need in wasting a pristine animal because of a poor performance round and an "IFFY"shot placement, 7.62 x 39 is a 30-30 class cartridge, 7.62 x 54 is a full power cartridge, along with 308, 30-06, 8x57m, I myself fee good with 30 calibers in the open, and 35 Rem, 444m, or 45-70 in heavy cover, It is true that Karamojo Bell killed hundreds of elephant with the 6.5x54, and the 7x57, but I do not have the balls to, good luck
.257 Weatherby magnum is an absolute Elk Anchor. 115 grn BST will zap an elk like no bodies business. Okay, I grant you that are a bit expensive but excellent round. At the end of the day though I go to .30-06 or .308 if I have my druthers. Way cheaper to shoot plenty of choices for shooting.
It is pretty exciting watching an elk fold like a lawn chair with the Weatherby though
I always enjoy this discussion.
Personal favorite is the 300WSM just because its what I have.
I am curious if anyone has used a 7-08 on elk and results, particularly for kids. I also think bullet selection is critical and Barnes tipped have worked great in our camp.
I tend toward the .30 calibers. My favorite is .300WM. I like the extra thump it gives at longer ranges if I need it. But I would also feel good with a .30-06.
I would also agree with choosing a 30 caliber. Every type of bullet is manufactured for them. I have had very good results with Barnes TTSX bullets. I tried the Barnes Vor-Tx cartridges and was not happy with the accuracy considering the price tag of them. $37 per box is a little steep. I expected them to be more accurate. My load for the TTSX bullet is very accurate.
50 bmg shoot them in the guts and save 1/4 of the work[ROFL1] 30-06 cant go wrong 168 hpbt yah buddy
I thought the BTHP was a non-expanding bullet? Therefore, it would be a no-no on animals.
I think a hpbt could work, but even a 40 year old cup and core bullet design is better suited to taking game.
Personally, I think 270 is a little light. I carry a 30-06 myself, my father a 338.
the boys shoot 270'S with some 140 SILVER TIP BT HOME LOADS THE DO THE JOB ,, 30-06 -[Beer] but that 338 has got to rock there world makes for better trackin if any when they are missing body partsQuote:
Originally Posted by keylay31
Following an organ trail isn't very tough. [Coffee]
Thanks for the heads up on the Barnes Vor-tx. I was looking at those and they make them sound so sweet, like they're actually worth the $40, but I guess the proof is in the puding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg8550
$37 a box. Priced 180gr 300 Weatherby Magnums lately? That's cheap. I really need to start reloading my own.
$37 per box for .308 is expensive. And no, I have not priced 300 Weatherby Magnum ever. I try to stay away from what I consider exotic calibers.
I use a 300 WM handloaded with 180 grain Nosler for everything big game.
This is one of those questions where you're going to get 50 different answers. Personally, I don't care for the .270 although it's been around forever, alot of people swear by it, and it's accurate as hell. If I didn't handload I'd probably use a 30.06 just for price and you can find ammo anywhere. As with anything, shot placement is key especially with a large bull elk.......they can be tough SOB's. Break the front shoulders and he's not going anywhere.
$37 is cheap for higher end 308 ammo!Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg8550
Lapua and Norma is upward of $45-88 a box!
Even non-exotic magnum premium ammo is $45-60 a box these days.
Want to see expensive? Look up prices of African dangerous big game cartridges.... 500, 600, 700 Nitro Express. $200-300 for a box of 20 is the norm for cheap ammo. The 700NE is almost $400 for 5, yes (five) rounds.
Sierra lists some of their HPBT's as GameKings. Hornady's SST and Nosler's Ballistic tips are nothing but HPBT's with polymer tips.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg8550
There are Match HPBT's but the HP is for balance rather than expansion. It all depends on the type of bullet design rather than the description as a HPBT. Tapered vs concentric jackets is the real difference.
The few I have taken down went eaisly with 180 gr 30.06.
Shot placement is critical, but I have had good results with 180 grain nosler accubond out of a 338.
165gr nosler BT out of a 300 wm will shoot clean through an elk under 100 yds be careful. beyond that it drops em like sacks of hammers out to 350ish. any farther and I don't think you can call it hunting more like shooting.
If you enjoy tracking wounded animals, use a smaller caliber and aim for the heart /lungs.
If you like meat in your freezer or a mount on your wall, use a larger caliber (.30 at least) and a quality bullet and aim for a high shoulder shot. Drops 'em dead in their tracks every time.