So, how much do you love freedom?

This is the ultimate test of people's support of the 1st Amendment! Here is the story:
Read Me

And here is the question: Despite them naming their kids these really awful names, do you think it was right of their kids to be taken just because the parents are bad with names (and probably should pick a new group to follow)? I think freedom is freedom, no matter how much you hate it, if it's not violating the rights of others it should be allowed. Freedom is not, do what you want as long as you don't offend anyone... this is some Commie BS! It cannot be allowed to stand- and for the record I'm totally against people who protest at fallen service members funerals, but if they're not hurting anyone physically they do have a right to, as long as it's not private property and they're not trespassing.

our stuff is hanging by a thread.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

I think freedom is freedom, no matter how much you hate it, if it's not violating the rights of others it should be allowed. Freedom is not, do what you want as long as you don't offend anyone... this is some Commie BS!

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You should be free to do what you want, as long as you are not materially harming another person without their consent.

If these adults wanted to change their own names to "Adolph Hilter" and "Aryan Nation", more power to them. The problem comes when you start talking about raising a kid with the name Adolph Hilter. Lets face it, that is going to have a dramatic impact on a kid growing up, right? Imagine going through world history class with that name.

No, you don't have the right to set your child up for a lifetime of abuse. It's as invasive as the government legally requiring you to educate children. Ideally this is something that should never happen, parents are supposed to love their kids and want what's best for them. When that's not the case, someone needs to intervene on behalf of the children. It's not a vague example of how it's "to protect the kids", but a specific example of two kids whose parents obviously feel that their form of political speech is more important than their childrens state of being.

H.

I personally take no offense to their names, its more of a representation as to how easy it is for two morons to breed. They'll likely end up in some inner city school and catch hell all the way through and to that I say...lol.

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Originally Posted by Graves

I personally take no offense to their names, its more of a representation as to how easy it is for two morons to breed. They'll likely end up in some inner city school and catch hell all the way through and to that I say...lol.

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My mom taught Emotionally and Mentally Handicapped kids in inner city schools. It's pretty depressing to hear about what these kids went through, and how messed up they become from it.

A lot of them end up being life long disability cases that the government pays for. Even when they're young, they get "SI" checks that she heard parents call their "mad money" because the kid was diagnosed with mental or emotional issues.

H.

From the news story:

"Court records also show that the oldest child, Adolf, frequently threatened to kill people.

The mother reportedly had also once given a note to her neighbour saying she was terrified of her husband who had threatened to kill her."

There is so much more to this story than is reported by the Daily Mail, a paper I personally consider to be nothing more than a British tabloid notorious for sensationalizing rather than reporting.

Presumably, little Adolf has a birth certificate or some other form of documentation issued by a government entity. This government issued document would have his name on it, and therefore the need for a complaint called in to social services by the Walmart Bakery about an odd choice in names, seems to be a little suspect.

Juliet:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet."

It'll be a test of weather or not their names will stay. Even though their folks are a couple of dousche nozzles, I'm betting they'll come to their senses and change tiger names.

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Originally Posted by Hoosier

No, you don't have the right to set your child up for a lifetime of abuse. It's as invasive as the government legally requiring you to educate children. Ideally this is something that should never happen, parents are supposed to love their kids and want what's best for them. When that's not the case, someone needs to intervene on behalf of the children. It's not a vague example of how it's "to protect the kids", but a specific example of two kids whose parents obviously feel that their form of political speech is more important than their childrens state of being.

H.

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Tricky business, drawing lines in the sand like that. Adolph Hitler Campbell is too much, what about Adolph as a first name? What about things like Flower, Pi, or Apple? How about telling your kids that the earth is flat, aliens exist, or that Obama was a great president? Where do you draw the line on people's ability to parent?

I can think of PLENTY of other people who can't afford to AND don't want to AND should never have been parents, that still have their kids (and like mentioned above, collect a gov't paycheck because of them...

If the children were taken purely because they were given politically incorrect names then that's an injustice. I don't agree that the state has any right or responsibility to protect children from the names given them by their parents. As soon as you outlaw "Adolf Hitler" you can outlaw any name ... thousands of latino boys named Jesus could be taken from their parents ... I have a friend named Kerry that has always objected to his name (he now goes by Jake). I think one could also argue that naming black boys names like "Jamal" and "Treysean" impede their future success over names like "Charles" and "William". Then there's all the hippies that name their kids Moonflower or Kharma.

At what point does the state intervene? Do we need to set up a Federal Department of Baby Names headed by the Baby Name Czar?

Anyway, from reading the story these kids names aren't the reason for the state intrusion into their lives.

so do we start arresting people named "Head" with kids named Richard?

what about people that name their kids Moonbeam?


or that name their kids after the characters of Bonanza?


I agree... abuse is bad... stupid people shouldn't breed, but where is the line?

Keep in mind that Bill Lear (of Learjet fame) named his second daughter Shanda.

the government has absolutely no place stepping into a man's family and his business.

the pendulum swings.

once, a child was basically a man's property, to do with as he pleased. he could treat them as good or as bad as he wanted. force them to work (that's why school's out in the summer, so kids could go work on the farm) or abuse and neglect them. beat his wife.

the pendulum swung back, and the government started to protect kids. children in an abusive home would be removed, deadbeat dads would be punished for not paying child support.

but it keeps swinging, and now has swung too far.

now, the government is overstepping it's bounds. politically incorrect name? take the child. father supports the oath keepers? take the child. (this happened in new hampshire) now the legal system is horribly biased toward women, and men are the victims of financial rape in divorce proceedings.

the pendulum will swing until it hits the wall that is the limit the people will allow. when the people decide they've had enough, they can stop the pendulum dead in it's tracks.

now if adolf and goebbels or whatever he named them were being abused and neglected, I'd have no problem with the state doing something about it


but the question byte poses is key. where is the line? with the government, once a line is crossed that ground is lost and they very very rarely give it back. if we let the government continue to make up reasons and provide excuses why this action needs to be taken, or that freedom needs to be trimmed a bit for the greater good, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY, then before you know it they will be banging down your door, taking your children to protect them from all the dangerous guns you posess. or from the pervasive ideals you are teaching them by homeschooling rather than enrolling them in public school. or whatever thing that is against the will of the government.

and if you resist you will be killed. because you threatened the life of our intrepid protectors. those that run towards danger rather away from it, to whom we all owe a debt of gratitude. how dare you!

some people will scoff and say it's impossible. maybe even mock me, call me a cop hater like they have in the past. but that's what we're heading for, folks. it happened in germany and it can happen here. and with all these occupy wherever protests going on, it just shows that there are a LOT of people out there that are absolutely gagging for it. they are practically throwing their freedoms over the fence onto the white house lawn and demanding the government take care of them.

and now we see here a family that has won. the courts have ruled in their favor. yet where are their children? how long must they wait for the government to obey the lawful order of the court?

bet your ass if the coin was reversed and the government was on the waiting end, they'd have the swat team shooting dogs and tossing flashbangs with a quickness.

we are stewing in a pot, and the page of the cookbook is titled DISASTER.

I'm with Cstone on this one...

There HAS to be more to the story...

Even if there is not .. why did the state wait till they were older if it was all about the names? someone had to sign off on those Birth Certs. Shoulda brought it up then frankly. if .. and thats a BIG IF.. there is some legal standing ( which there is not )


Tho I do agree with a Lewis Black skit..

The guy that signs the BC's should be allowed to look at the parents and just say .. "uhhh NO. try again"

I guess parents forget how harsh children are to each other in grade school ( and up for that matter) , My Name is really uncommon and I got some crap for it as a kid.. has a sub teach in the 5th grade argue with me that Kade ( pronounced like Wade but with a K) was a girls name, And I was just screwing with him. talk about a pain in the ass to deal with at that age....

Anyways..... yeah the parents do have a right to name the kids whatever they want.... That's how it works .

Of course I think the kid should be able to take the little end of a fishing pole and whap the parent right on the back of the neck every time a kid makes fun of their odd name while growing up. Seems Fair to me.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

If common sense wasn't an oxymoron, this would NOT be an issue.

I have no proof that this story is accurate, however, it does illustrate that not every parent is completely responsible for unusual name choices:

Anfernee “Penny” Hardaway was born July 18, 1972 in Memphis, Tennessee. Anfernee “Penny” Hardaway got the name Anfernee because his mom couldn’t say Anthony and the doctor wrote down Anfernee when he asked Anfernee’s mother her baby’s name. His mother had to work long hours so he was raised by his grandmother until high school. He got the nickname “Penny” from his grandmother because she said that he looked like a penny when she looked down at him playing on the floor. His dad taught him about basketball as a child. As far as I know he doesn’t have any brothers or sisters.

Besides, my kids like their names; Rolling and Cold [ROFL1]

There is more to this story.

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

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that's exactly what anti gun folks and glocktalk LEOs say about open carry.

All I have to say about it is IMO only a RACIST WHITE TRASH SCUMBAG would give their kids those names.

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Originally Posted by Atrain1

All I have to say about it is IMO only a RACIST WHITE TRASH SCUMBAG would give their kids those names.

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So the question is; in a free society can you outlaw being a racist white trash scumbag?


I would argue that the occasional poor white trash kid named "Adolf Hitler" is the price we pay for freedom.

Furthermore, how is naming a child after Hitler worse than naming your child after a middle eastern, pedophilic, anti-Semitic death cult leader?

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

that's exactly what anti gun folks and glocktalk LEOs say about open carry.

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And there are times that open carry is entirely inappropriate. If your last name was Black, it would be inappropriate to name your son N*gger.


I defend their right to name their child whatever they wish, just as I defend the right of those who wish to open carry to do so. I just wish that some people would look at the consequences for everyone involved before they act.

I have a problem with a United States president named Barack HUSSEIN Obama. Sure doesn't sound like a US name.
The kids will have to deal with the name throughout their life but they will also have the ability to change it.
Ron Artest changed his name to Metta World Peace
Chad Johnson changed his name to Chad ochocinco.

Either way the parents should be able to name their child as they please....whats next...a copyright on a name. you can't name your child James because my child is already named James.

What about the hispanic families that name their children Jesus. now whether you pronounce it like in church as Jesus, such as Jesus Christ, or Jesus, like hay-sus, the spelling is still the same.

It's their right to name them whatever they please. anyone who disagrees can literally take their fist and shove it where the sun don't shine.

One of my kids is named after a famous outlaw we are related to. I thought long and hard before naming my kids.

I stand by my previous view. I don't care if adults rename themselves to that, but doing it to your kids? That's not right.

You take it on a case by case basis. This doesn't open the door for systemic government intervention. The government allows plenty of stupid names for kids, it's the parents right.

Anytime the government needs to make a case by case determination, I think it should be done by a jury. I imagine this case will go to court and ultimately be determined by a jury of their "peers" based on the facts of the matter specific to this case. That's the way it should be.

Have any of you read Freakanomics? Has an interesting section about the impact of names on kids.

My basic tenet is, "You should have the freedom to do what you want, as long as you do not materially harm another without their consent." The child is obviously too young to understand what Adolph Hiltler represents, and therefore is too young to consent. You can say they can change their name when they are eighteen, and that's true. But it should be that they can change their name to this, instead of having to change it away.

H.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

So the question is; in a free society can you outlaw being a racist white trash scumbag?


I would argue that the occasional poor white trash kid named "Adolf Hitler" is the price we pay for freedom.

Furthermore, how is naming a child after Hitler worse than naming your child after a middle eastern, pedophilic, anti-Semitic death cult leader?

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The nail has been struck directly on the head! "I'm named after the great and glorious prophet Mohammad..." F*** you! He's a racist murderer. I met a Hispanic kid once who's name was Che Guevara Montoya. I informed him of his name sake's atrocities and he got mad, until he did the research. His name is now Jorge (which is still a strange way of spelling George, but I digress). If some AB supporting, white supremesist family want's to name their kids that, or even Nathan Bedford (of KKK fame), that's up to them. But it's on them if their kids are alienated in school. I had one of the most common names parents chose in the mid 1980's, and every time the teacher said "Ryan" we'd all say (all 5 of us in one class) "Which one?" Annoying but hey, you go too obscure and you'll run into issues- such as the kid name Daine (pronounced DANE) who everyone thought his name was Diane. Some kids even called him "Lady Di."

Many people have said that they feel that there is more to this story. I say that it doesn't matter. There probably IS more to the story, but they were proven NOT GUILTY of child abuse, therefore, it doesn't matter what the rest of the story is. They were found not guilty, they don't have their kids. Maybe Kevin can swing by the government offices of this place and make some arrests on his way over to Oakland.