John Stossl: "Buy American" A Bad Idea

I admit it. I go out of my way to buy American-made products as often as I can. Especially durable stuff like tools, guns, furniture, etc... Sometimes it's very hard to find what I want without a "Made in China" label but I look anyway.

I don't necessarily avoid foreign-made products from most any country except China. I really hate buying something with a "Made in China" label. Anywhere but China is OK. China just gets under my skin.

Many American products that could, at one time, be counted on to carry the American label are now produced in China:

• Leupold
• Danner
• Burris
• Lots of food items
• Pretty much anything else you can think of

So, while I think Stossl has some interesting points, I doubt I'll change my buying habits any time soon. I'm still going to avoid anything made in China if at all possible.

I usually like Stossel. Usually because of his mustache, sometimes because of his opinions.

I bet his mustache wasn't made in China...

No way. You can tell by the craftsmanship and quality that that 'stache is made in 'Merica.

Seeing John Stossel punch Rachel Madow in the mouth is on my bucket list.

Maddow's mustache is nice, too.

Stossel makes the same arguments I've been making for ages about the foolishness of "buy American"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/...-is-dumb-idea/

The idea that spending more for an inferior product because its made in the USA is a good idea and will help our economy and/or the "workin' man" is a fallacy cut from the same cloth as the Broken Window Fallacy.

If American manufacturers want Americans to Buy American they need to make the better product at the better price or in some other way make their product stand out over the foreign made one for some reason other than a sticker that says it was Made in U.S.A.



That said, I do think its a good idea to support ending government policies that make American products less competitive. If we focused on THAT instead of just blindly buying stuff we think is American made then we'd get somewhere.



EDIT
On a side note, China has been debasing their own currency for years to keep the price of their products low on the international market ... in effect subsidizing foreigners who purchase Chinese goods to the detriment of the Chinese economy (the silly ChiComs really don't understand capitalism). So in reality, buying cheap Chinese products will in the long run undermine and destabilize the Chinese economy.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Stossel makes the same arguments I've been making for ages about the foolishness of "buy American"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/...-is-dumb-idea/

The idea that spending more for an inferior product because its made in the USA is a good idea and will help our economy and/or the "workin' man" is a fallacy cut from the same cloth as the Broken Window Fallacy.

If American manufacturers want Americans to Buy American they need to make the better product at the better price or in some other way make their product stand out over the foreign made one for some reason other than a sticker that says it was Made in U.S.A.



That said, I do think its a good idea to support ending government policies that make American products less competitive. If we focused on THAT instead of just blindly buying stuff we think is American made then we'd get somewhere.



EDIT
On a side note, China has been debasing their own currency for years to keep the price of their products low on the international market ... in effect subsidizing foreigners who purchase Chinese goods to the detriment of the Chinese economy (the silly ChiComs really don't understand capitalism). So in reality, buying cheap Chinese products will in the long run undermine and destabilize the Chinese economy.

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Well put! I had people get mad at me when I bought my car (I think I've said this before) and they were saying things to the effect of "You're un-American for buying a German car. Why don't you buy Chevy or Ford?" To that I always answer: because side by side comparison my AWD BMW will outperform any AWD car Ford or Chevy puts out across the board, every aspect, besides, it's fun to drive and has the options I want.

Are there great American made products? You bet, my POF P415 is 100% made in America with PA steel and I'd better the cost of that rifle it's better than ARs from outside the US. But, if you look at it, some things that come from overseas just last longer, are less expensive, and overall better quality. I don't go out looking for products based on where they're made, I look for the best for my buck. Call it what you will, I'm a typical American consumer.
Side note: I never buy a CO or US flag unless it's specifically made in the USA!

You want good ol made is USA products to make a comeback? Tell your Rep to get rid off EPA, Energy Dept, capital gain tax among all the stupid bureaucracy which prevent us to compete against China. This topic always pisses me off.

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Originally Posted by MB888

You want good ol made is USA products to make a comeback? Tell your Rep to get rid off EPA, Energy Dept, capital gain tax among all the stupid bureaucracy which prevent us to compete against China. This topic always pisses me off.

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OOOH the EPA pisses me off... short hijack- my dad is the president of the local water board (the guys that put good 'ol H2O into the houses of many Evergreenites) and the EPA is putting out new standards that they can't meet with phosphorous output at Colorado treatment plants... it leads to vicious cycle because now everyone needs .gov grants to reach the impossible new standard.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

EDIT
On a side note, China has been debasing their own currency for years to keep the price of their products low on the international market ... in effect subsidizing foreigners who purchase Chinese goods to the detriment of the Chinese economy (the silly ChiComs really don't understand capitalism). So in reality, buying cheap Chinese products will in the long run undermine and destabilize the Chinese economy.

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That's not what happened when Japan used the same market dumping technique with televisions. Japan completely destroyed the American television market, camera market, and nearly the auto market by using the exact same technique.

Other than that, I completely agree with you.

Buy American is cool and all....but really it should be about where you shop from. WalMart, and all the other big-box retailers, drive the price points down so low, to be consumer friendly, that they drive the manufacturers to the cheapest production facilities they can find to meet these price points and earn WalMarts business.

I say Buy American, buy from Americans who purchase made in America products.

Pay no attention to my Austrian made Glock, or Italian Beretta.

One thing I have heard really good things about out of China is Fenix flashlights. I also try to avoid buying Chinese; just not as hard as I should.

I'll buy American if quality and price are close.

What really gets me, it when people spout the "buy American" mantra while buying a dodge/ford/chevy that was made in...



Mexico. Or Canada.

If you want the car, you like the car, that's fine you're entitled to liking any car you want (except a prius. Don't care about your excuses, it's a wretched excuse for an appliance), just don't try and tell me that you're supporting Americans when your Neon has Hecho en Mexico stamped on the block.

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Originally Posted by Sharpienads

Maddow's mustache is nice, too.

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[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL1][ROFL2][LOL]Kissing her would be like kissing a fireman.

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Originally Posted by Irving

That's not what happened when Japan used the same market dumping technique with televisions. Japan completely destroyed the American television market, camera market, and nearly the auto market by using the exact same technique.

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I would argue that our government did as much harm to the television market (have no idea about cameras) and the UAW have done more damage to the US auto industry than the Japanese.

Of course their tactics (followed by massive Keynesian stimulus) ruined Japan and have left them in recession for the last decade and a half. China's fall will be harder because they don't have a well entrenched middle class and their rulers are ruthless Maoists (regardless of their current moderate pose ... if things go sideways there you can expect a lot worse than Tienanmen Square).

Note that most Japanese cars in the US market are now made in the US (and a large chunk of German ones too). So the real vibrant "American car industry" is actually the Japanese car industry relocated to right-to-work states in the US.



Anyway, I'm not worried about foreign competition harming US industries and the US economy, I'm worried about red tape and high taxes from DC, THAT is where the problem is.

I'm not saying that the ills of the current US Auto industry were caused by Japan, that was back in the 1970's and 80's.

everything being equal, I'll buy American.
Sadly, its rarely equal.

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Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

everything being equal, I'll buy American.
Sadly, its rarely equal.

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I hate to inform you....

http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd234581/Image1.gif

I know...


as I Said all things being equal I will buy American.


But equal is made in China too!


[ROFL1]

I had several pairs of levi's, not that long ago, made in US...still love levi's but I just have to be upset that they are not made here.

Oh, and I really like 511 gear, but the most recent pants I bought (ordered online) says made in Vietnam...My dad would be super pissed about that. He refuses to even consider something made there.

This is what I've thought for many, many, MANY years now and the sad part is my prediction at an early is is turning to be accurate. I wish I was wrong though. It always seemed backwards to me that people bought American just because they were told to and there was so many marketing campaigns pushing American products and my thought was.. isn't it up to American manufacturers to make us want to buy American? Superior products at affordable prices is how it's done. Rewarding inferior products at higher prices by blindly buying American is what has got us where we are. Left the door open for 3rd world countries to make cheaper products that, in some cases, are just as good or better. We're experiencing the worst part of that now IMO where people are tired of buying American just to buy American and manufacturers are so far behind the times that they are going to be playing catch up for a while to try to come up with innovative ideas once again to earn people's business rather than just expecting it.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I admit it. I go out of my way to buy American-made products as often as I can. Especially durable stuff like tools, guns, furniture, etc... Sometimes it's very hard to find what I want without a "Made in China" label but I look anyway.

I don't necessarily avoid foreign-made products from most any country except China. I really hate buying something with a "Made in China" label. Anywhere but China is OK. China just gets under my skin.

Many American products that could, at one time, be counted on to carry the American label are now produced in China:

• Leupold
• Danner
• Burris
• Lots of food items
• Pretty much anything else you can think of

So, while I think Stossel has some interesting points, I doubt I'll change my buying habits any time soon. I'm still going to avoid anything made in China if at all possible.

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Burris is still mostly made in America. Yes there are some products from China. Most foreign products are from the Phillipines. Either Asia Optical or Kenko. Scopes like the Black Diamond, Handgun, XTR, Signature, And Scout are still made here.

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Originally Posted by MB888

You want good ol made is USA products to make a comeback? Tell your Rep to get rid off EPA, Energy Dept, capital gain tax among all the stupid bureaucracy which prevent us to compete against China.

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Yeh totally! [Roll1]
We should get rid of the Bill of Rights too and open sweat shops. I'm calling Sofa-King on this one[Kick2]

Buying based on sympathy never works in the long run. I'll continue to purchase the best bang for my buck no matter where it's manufactured. I believe in true capitalism even though it's currently not a level playing field with tariffs, subsidies, unions, and the like.

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

Yeh totally! [Roll1]
We should get rid of the Bill of Rights too and open sweat shops. I'm calling Sofa-King on this one[Kick2]

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I'm with mb888 on this one. The government agencies have been and always will be a hindrance not a help.
You want to ruin American car makers saddle them with emissions and greedy unions. And you will end up supporting them in the long run.

Ronald Reagan said it best "Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them."
Another good one.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it" Was he talking about GM?

The government is now responsible for companies making sh**ty products? Tinfoil baby... Lots-o-tinfoil...

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

The government is now responsible for companies making sh**ty products? Tinfoil baby... Lots-o-tinfoil...

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Nope, but the govt forced many companies to shut down. In the 90s, EPA shut down few muffler manufacturers in Denver for example. Do you think you are better off w/ chinese made mufflers filled w/ asbestos? Or you prefer the chinese made catalytic converters which are stamped ULEV usage yet resulting over 15% in nox etc?

One thing about the tree huggers, they are mostly hypocrites. They are using the same made in China products where the labor and environmental standards way below US, yet rally against the US manufacturers over pollution or 'labor dispute.'

You calling me a "tree-hugger" now?

I'm done with you douchebag... get a clue. Maybe you can Google "clue" and post the link for your bibliography [LOL]

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

You calling me a "tree-hugger" now?

I'm done with you douchebag... get a clue. Maybe you can Google "clue" and post the link for your bibliography [LOL]

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EDIT: lol.. was told over pm not worth arguing with you. You seem to take everything personally.

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

I had several pairs of levi's, not that long ago, made in US...still love levi's but I just have to be upset that they are not made here.

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I stopped buying Levis when I found out they fund Brady and VPC. See, just because a company is located in America doesn't mean they aren't Anti-American (and yes, I just said if one supports gun control they are anti-American).

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Originally Posted by MB888

EDIT: lol.. was told over pm not worth arguing with [Delfuego]. You seem to take everything personally.

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QFT

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

The government is now responsible for companies making sh**ty products? Tinfoil baby... Lots-o-tinfoil...

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Actually, in a round about sort of way, they are. In a free market when a company gets too large to satisfy their customers (if they allow such growth) then they eventually revamp or fail. There are often smaller companies who can actually build a better product or have a better idea but aren't as successful because of volume. Once that larger company steps back or fails then it allows for these new innovations from smaller companies to take flight and experience growth. This growth means more jobs and eventually the growth will see better products get to market in larger numbers and so on. The problem is we bailed out a LOT of companies who were solely responsible for the hit our economy has taken and in turn the free market hasn't been able to work and we've basically rewarded meritocracy and poor innovation which has made our country less successful when compared to what our competitor countries are manufacturing. So, in a way, our government is partly responsible for poor products by not allowing for the companies to fail (or greatly cut back) which allows for the next guy with a better mousetrap to flourish. On the world stage our close minded approach to commerce has cost us greatly making us unable to compete with with the rest of the world w/solid products.

I think the hippies protest and ruin companies here because for some reason they can. Their ideas get enough traction and you get emission on cars because of gasoline. Then you go a little further and you can say we are going to have an ice age because of it. Cripple the market with more emission and then you can say the only thing it does produce is causing global warming.
This is the one country where we can require proof to back up someones claim but its just easier to call them deniers and racists to scare the opposition.
I was never the opposition either I asked for proof, because I'm not a sucker and believe everything I hear and instead I get called an a-hole for asking. Now I'm calling BS unless I see some real proof.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Actually, in a round about sort of way, they are. In a free market when a company gets too large to satisfy their customers (if they allow such growth) then they eventually revamp or fail. There are often smaller companies who can actually build a better product or have a better idea but aren't as successful because of volume. Once that larger company steps back or fails then it allows for these new innovations from smaller companies to take flight and experience growth. This growth means more jobs and eventually the growth will see better products get to market in larger numbers and so on. The problem is we bailed out a LOT of companies who were solely responsible for the hit our economy has taken and in turn the free market hasn't been able to work and we've basically rewarded meritocracy and poor innovation which has made our country less successful when compared to what our competitor countries are manufacturing. So, in a way, our government is partly responsible for poor products by not allowing for the companies to fail (or greatly cut back) which allows for the next guy with a better mousetrap to flourish. On the world stage our close minded approach to commerce has cost us greatly making us unable to compete with with the rest of the world w/solid products.

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Just to illaberate a little on your point. If GM was allowed to fall, fail, restructure. And they sold off some of the makes that they gobbled up over the years. Instead of getting rid of say Pontiac all together. Imagine if a company that liked making cars took it over and started producing a kick ass car like they used to? Modern technology in a classic all steal design or something all new even. That would put GM in a position to innovate or fail again. That is what makes the free market move forward. Hell I think we already to a point where we don't need government. We can take care of ourselves. At least most of us. Maybe that is what they are afraid of?
IDK I might be full of it?

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Originally Posted by DOC

Just to illaberate a little on your point. If GM was allowed to fall, fail, restructure. And they sold off some of the makes that they gobbled up over the years. Instead of getting rid of say Pontiac all together. Imagine if a company that liked making cars took it over and started producing a kick ass car like they used to? Modern technology in a classic all steal design or something all new even. That would put GM in a position to innovate or fail again. That is what makes the free market move forward. Hell I think we already to a point where we don't need government. We can take care of ourselves. At least most of us. Maybe that is what they are afraid of?
IDK I might be full of it?

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Makes sense to me. We're shooting ourselves in the foot for funding old ideas and bloated companies that have already PROVEN to not be what consumers are looking for.