Drawing on a dog?

So I'm walking to my truck at 0630 and a guy is walking his dog through the complex, i got within 10' of the dog and it barked and charged with teeth bearing hair standing tail up and ears erect. The dog and owner were directly in front of my parking spot.

The owner had the leash tight in his hand, but he had to work to keep the dog in place.

I will be talking with the management here about this.

It made me think, would I be legal to draw if the owner had an obviously aggressive dog? Or would i have to wait till it was off the leash?

The dog was probably 85lbs well built all golden color short hair with a slightly curved tail. It was dark, and i was concentrating on the leash movements.

My wife and I were out hiking in Pike National Forest. A couple with 2 dogs had parked their Jeep off the side of the trail near a nice stream. The dogs were just roaming around.

One of the dogs (black lab) spotted us and came toward us very aggressively. I put my hand on my Glock and loudly instructed the dog to go away.

The dog owners paid zero attention to the dog, or us, or any of the commotion.

It turned into a non-issue. My wife gave me a bunch of crap about it at the time, and still brings it up.

I'd have had zero remorse about shooting the dog though.

Mike

This is the reason I don't own an aggresive dog. Right now my back fence is down. Me and the neighbor are working on putting a new one up and his young boy 4 yrs old is always out back playing. I let the dog out and half the time they play I don't understand people with aggresive dogs. I am the one who will decide when it's time to be aggresive not my dog.

If you feel your life is in danger then you have the right to defend yourself. My only problem with dogs is that sometimes people are pussies and afraid of them to begin with. My dog one time ran out the front door and up to a lady walking by she was just playing and barked, Scared the hell out of her. :oops: I appologized.

I just always worry that in a situation (like my dog above) that if somebody shot my dog I can gaurentee you 100% I would without any hesitation shoot them dead.

In your situation I would have to say that you had a right to be prepared to defend yourself. The dog was on a leash and even if the owner struggled he did keep the dog from attacking you so no way you could have shot legally. Since the owner was struggling to keep the dog under control and there was a possibility he could have lost that control I would say I might have drawn just not took aim and probably kept it out of sight to the best of my ability. If any time your unsure best to be ready than caught by surprise.

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Originally Posted by HunterCO

if somebody shot my dog I can gaurentee you 100% I would without any hesitation shoot them dead.

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That reminds me. We have cats. We have a normal, probably 5' wooden fence. We live inside city limits.

If a dog / fox / coyote / hawk / whatever is killing my cat in the backyard, can I legally shoot it?

Mike

Another (I hope) related topic -- what's the etiquette with regard to being bitten by dogs of friends / acquaintances?

Obviously, you don't want to kill or permanently harm the canine, but it seems important to impress upon them that biting the guests isn't kosher.

Mike

1} Harm My dog, You'll be begging Me to shoot You. Tim, will let You off easy. :twisted:

2} Depends on the severity of the bite. Dozer will get a little nippy from time to time, Just grab Him by the snout push His lip up into His teeth and say "NO",He'll look at You with hurt feelings for a couple of seconds, and stop. I'm sure it's the same with many other dogs. It won't bother Me a bit if You do it. Maybe, one of these days He'll learn not to do it.

For what it's worth i grew up where there were no leash laws, dogs came and went with few problems. I've never had to shoot a dog in defense. I've smacked on or two. I've been nipped plenty of times, clawed by cats, etc.

I know an aggressive dog when i see it. As i said, hair standing up, ears and tail up, showing teeth and charging. It was not even in a defensive posture.

Funny thing is my hand went to my pocket knife first. I remember thinking "hey stupid, other pocket"

I didn't even flash anything. but if the dog went off the leash, i'd have been forced to take care of it. Though i would have ended up bit, a dog can clear 10' very fast. I was ready to give it my left forearm to chew on, i was wearing my company jacket anyways.

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HunterCO

if somebody shot my dog I can gaurentee you 100% I would without any hesitation shoot them dead.

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That reminds me. We have cats. We have a normal, probably 5' wooden fence. We live inside city limits.

If a dog / fox / coyote / hawk / whatever is killing my cat in the backyard, can I legally shoot it?

Mike

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Everything sounds like game to me except the hawk they are a bird of prey and federally protected. I don't know the laws regarding that.

Not to hijack Wulf202's thread he had an aggressive dog come at him and he as well as every one of us has the god given right to defend ourselves.

I will also add that if my dog ever attacked anybody and they shot her in self defense I would be very upset to say the least, but would not hold it against them. We each have our own right to self preservation just make sure it is the right decision or you can and will pay the consequences.

My dog would never attack anybody back to my original post (Unless of course you have feathers then it's on) :mrgreen:

i live in the sticks. shooting dogs out here is fair game. my neighbor shot my dog 200 yards out because it went on his property. i'm glad i was not home at the time as it would have turned ugly. shooting a dog is ok as i had no recourse to my problem. i'm not sure how you would stand in the city shooting a dog on a leash though.

i know it's not the dogs fault but when my neighbors dog crosses my fence i will be returning the favor.

As long as the owner was trying to control the dog I would back off. If they lost control and the dog came at me. Different situation.

Sharpmetal, I can understand the shooting if the dog was going after livestock or doing other damage. But, just for being on the property? I know that from back in My youth at My Great Aunt's farm just outside of Gorham KS. They're dogs and the Neighors dogs would get together and play "Pack" for a couple of hours. We followed them one day, About all they did was run around playing , Hit a couple of farm houses where the lady of the manor gave them table scraps. A couple of hours later they went back to they're respective homes and that was it. Of course that was the late 60's and early 70's so, it may have been a little differant then.

Marlin,

I've been told alot of city folk take their dog out to the sticks and dump them when they no longer want them around.

The dogs form packs and hunt, farm animals are convenient targets.

Farmers tend to treat any dog that's not theirs the same (coyotes included)


My dad was out changing pipe at my uncles farm a few weeks ago, when the neighbor's pitbull came after him. When it get smacked with a 40' long section of pipe, it changed his mind.

I told him, i'd have shot the thing. Especially since it's bitten my aunt before. He said he didn't have a gun, but he had pipe...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

Another (I hope) related topic -- what's the etiquette with regard to being bitten by dogs of friends / acquaintances?

Obviously, you don't want to kill or permanently harm the canine, but it seems important to impress upon them that biting the guests isn't kosher.

Mike

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As i said, i've been bit before. If i trust the owner i ask them if it's had it's shots. If i don't, i DEMAND proof of the shots.

First aid is to clean and disinfect the wound ASAP. I usually give it a day, if my wounds are not puffy/red/tender/oozing i let it go. If they are, go to the doc, tell the owner they're paying for it.

If you wish to charge the owner, i've heard of people being arrested and or sued because of what their pet did. Keep in mind, the animal will most likely be destroyed.

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

Marlin,

I've been told alot of city folk take their dog out to the sticks and dump them when they no longer want them around.

The dogs form packs and hunt, farm animals are convenient targets.

Farmers tend to treat any dog that's not theirs the same (coyotes included)


My dad was out changing pipe at my uncles farm a few weeks ago, when the neighbor's pitbull came after him. When it get smacked with a 40' long section of pipe, it changed his mind.

I told him, i'd have shot the thing. Especially since it's bitten my aunt before. He said he didn't have a gun, but he had pipe...

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I don't think Marlin is questioning shooting feral dogs or a dog that attacks you. He questioned why on earth somebody would shoot their neighbors dog simply because it wondered onto their property. As I said above if somebody shot my dog like that I would shoot them that neighbor would be pushing up daisies right now.

Yes What Tim said, IF the dog is harrassing livestock or doing other property damage By all means Shoot.

And do not get Me started on Pit Bulls, I had a bad experiance with one of those in My Youth, So if I see one off leash, I WILL exteminate it with Extreme prejudice, I don't care if it is the best dog in the world. I'm just NOT going to take the chance.

it turned into a he said she said thing. he said my dog was by his cows. my other neighbor watched the whole thing and he wasn't.

this guy knew it was my dog. once while he was pushing his cattle down the street my dog went with him. i asked him if my dog was bothering him and he said no. i told him if he ever was to bother him to just let me know. he said he would.

i got his message loud and clear. my good neighbor came over when i got home and told me what happened. thats how i knew it was him. otherwise i would never have known the coward did it. since he drug my dead dog off, tied to a rope, behind his truck and hid him in the bushes.

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

...Farmers tend to treat ANY dog that's not theirs the same (coyotes included)...

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Added emphasis to what i was trying to say.

I'm home from a neck surgery, and on pain killers that aren't working so well, so i may not be making sense.


Shrapmetal,

Sorry for your loss. That's one helluva neighbor you have...

If you couldn't tell from my handle i like dogs.

A buddy of mine who works for the sheriff's dept sent me home with a Tazer DVD to watch the other day. In one scene, the police get a call about a viscious dog on the loose. When they show up, one officer gets attacked by the large rottweiler but his partner nails the dog with the tazer. After the dog was done getting lit up like a Christmas tree, it ran like a friggin greyhound on speed [roll]

Here it is... http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/671.html

I can speak for the use of a Tazer for dogs as well. They work on any animal. That's why the new civilian model has a 30 second mode. Just shoot the offending predator, drop the Tazer, run. It gives you the 30 seconds plus the recovery time of about 15. For an animal, the immediate response is flee to safer areas. :roll: For a bad guy ????? Just try to be gone before he's able to continue his unlawful activities in regards to you. OR keep it set to the 5 second mode, stay on the trigger, grab the cel phone and call 911, explain to the bad guy how the batteries last for about 100 five second bursts. :twisted:

Adding insult to injury... or injury to injury... while he's dancing and peeing himself, hose him down in Fox Labs 5 Point 3. :twisted: Handcuff him, and ... oh wait, nevermind... [roll]


Karl.

Woah Karl, you were getting a little Pulp Fictiony there...looks like the spider caught himself a fly... [shock2]

Sorry, just remembering what to do when I actually get to arrest someone. :roll: Karl. [roll]

Damnit, it happened again.

Different dog, and owner. Different apartment complex.

So last night about 8pm a lady was walking her two dogs, one on and one off a leash.

The one off the leash was a boxer, it charged me barking, i stepped back around the truck and the owner called me back.

She opoligized and said the dog would not bite. So i continued down my side of the parking lot, when the dog saw my back it charged again.

I damn near cleared leather that time, it stopped about 5 feet from me.

The owner is deaf, and since we were 20+ feet apart and it was night she couldn't have heard anything i said, or read my lips.

I think she didn't know that it was barking while it was coming at me?!

Posting the link and text in case the link changes. I read this posting a week or so ago. Reading this news article was a reality check. I would not use a "light caliber weapon".

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=64362

LAKEWOOD – Animal Control has impounded six pit bulls after one of the pit bulls kept attacking two other dogs even though the pit bull had been shot twice in the head.


Lakewood Police say the pit bulls ranged from puppies to adults and were living at 1335 Allison Street.

Police say around 2 p.m. Monday, a neighbor’s two dogs were attacked and one was killed.

One of the pit bulls jumped the fence and attacked the other dogs.

Matt Burdic says his wife and daughter were walking into the yard, right behind their two dogs, a Pomeranian named Minnie and a Jack Russell Terrier named Samantha, when the pit bull attacked.

“We’ve never even seen this dog. My neighbor has so many of them. He jumped over our fence and came straight into the yard,” said Burdic.

The pit bull attacked Minnie, according to Burdic, and “tore her to shreds.”

“It was just like she was a rag doll. I mean, he was just shaking her around. There was no controlling the pit bull. It wasn’t a dog,” he said.

They tried to separate the dogs when the pit bull turned on Samantha.

Burdic says he shot the pit bull several times in the head and neck with a light caliber weapon. At least two of the bullets hit the pit bull in the head, but it did not stop attacking.

“I stuck it right to his head and pulled the trigger. ... Nothing,” said Burdic. “It didn’t phase him. It was horrible.”

Three teens from the Denver Street School were walking by when they heard the shots. Robert Gething, Robert Thomas and Eric Swift jumped over the fence to help. They finally pulled the pit bull off Samantha and pinned it until police arrived.

The pit bull was one of the six impounded by Animal Control.

Minnie was killed in the attack and Samantha badly hurt. Dr. Victoria Gomez says the pit bull, whose name she says is “Killer,” is walking around as if nothing happened. An X-ray shows the two bullets are still in his head.

“He’s got a pretty big thick head, but it is surprising,” she said.

Police say they have issued a summons to the owner of the pit bull for the following: dog at large, harboring a dangerous animal, neglect and having more than the legal number of animals.

9NEWS attempted to talk to the owner of the pit bull but he was not at home.

9NEWS has learned that in the past months the owner has sold pit bulls to other people in the neighborhood.




(Copyright KUSA*TV. All rights reserved.)

Ummm, yeah, that's EXACTLY why I upgraded to a 357. I shot a crippled mountain lion with a 38+P once, it took 3 to the head to kill it. :roll: I'll go with 357's for ALL animals in the future. Well, all small animals anyway. Bigger animals will get a rifle round. [poke] Karl.

I have two bigger sized dogs (80+ lbs) and they intimidate people just by size. Add in the fact that they are half german short haired poitners and they are hyperactive. When they are out walking they are on leashes at all times. I keep them very close when passing people as they love people and just want to smell, lick and play but two 80 lbs dogs "charging" would certainly set most people on edge. Unfortunately it would be difficult to tell them apart from an attacking dog so that is why I think any responsible owner should keep them well under control (in urban area).
Granted when I take them out in dog park areas or mountain areas I let them off leash but with training collars in case we run into other people and the people look uncomfortable or my dogs get too excited.
Since I can't comment on "farm life" conditions I think it is unfortunate what happened Shrap. But I can say in urban area it is the owners responsiblity and if something happens to their dog it could very well be justified as in OPs situation.

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Originally Posted by jackedco

Dr. Victoria Gomez says the pit bull, whose name she says is “Killer,” is walking around as if nothing happened. An X-ray shows the two bullets are still in his head.

“He’s got a pretty big thick head, but it is surprising,” she said.

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Light caliber it may've been, but that's a tough f*ckin dog. :!:

I'm unable to carry anything larger than a light caliber pistol on the job.

My work has rules against being armed

God forbid you try to protect yourself :roll:

Wulf you did the right thing since the dog was on leash, and some what controled by the owner, well at least from what I think. Defense of severe bodily harm shouldn't matter what it is, cat, dog, man with a knife, rabid rabbit, it really shouldn't matter, all you would have to do is show that you were in fear for your life/safety. I would have even shot the dog if the guy couldn't control it and the distance kept closing. There was a huge legal battle in AZ, back home where a guy shot the owner of two maybe three off leash dogs for commanding the dogs to attack him....can't remember what happened to the shooter, the dog owner died along with his dogs if i remember correctly. just hope for the jury of your peers to all be members of USPSA or an equivelant if something goes south....lots of liberals out there.