Best expedition 4wd...

I'm looking at building up a really competent overland 4wd for long trips, camping, 4-wheeling, running the dogs and possibly child around occasionally, and all the generally outdoorsy things we can do in Colorado.

This is a 3rd car so I'm also trying to keep it within a reasonable budget. The two trucks I'm considering:

- 3rd-generation Toyota 4runners - 96 through 2002, with 99-00 being the sweet spot (4WD transfer case that also allows for an unlocked center diff giving AWD functionality for sleet/snow/ice driving). I have a '98 4runner that I picked up for a song and really like but will probably be selling to get something in slightly nicer condition. The other option -

- Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ-80, preferably 1995-1997 (also includes Lexus LX 450 '96-97 as it's the same truck with some luxo cladding). Land Cruiser has solid front & rear axles, can be found with front & rear locking diffs (as well as a locking center diff) and are generally known to be bomb proof outside of the engine having occasional head gasket issues.

Both these trucks can easily be had in excellent condition (for their age) for under $10k and possibly well under that. The way I figure it is if I stay well under budget, I'll have more money to put into better tires, winch and winch bumpers, that sort of thing.

Are there any other suggestions you guys might have for such a vehicle? I'm largely staying away from Jeeps due to being overpriced and under-reliable within the price range I'm looking at, but am open to suggestions. Thanks in advance - if you have an opinion share the why as well. :)

Suzuki Samuri all the way...

Jeep rubicon unlimited, plenty of parts all over the US.

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Originally Posted by spyder

Suzuki Samuri all the way...

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Heh, as much fun as those tiny things are I want something big enough to fit a car seat and dogs in - not much chance there! Also, 3 cylinders of fury probably won't cut it for actual travel that includes things like hills...

i love my 2000 4runner

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Originally Posted by Sixgun

Jeep rubicon unlimited, plenty of parts all over the US.

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Rubicons aren't in my price range. Unlimiteds (4 door) are all going to be $15k-$40k, with most in the $20s. Even the 2-door TJ LWB Unlimiteds are up there. :(

As this won't ever be a DD (also have a G8 GXP and a Cayenne Turbo S for running around) I'm trying to keep the budget lower, and not feel bad taking on trails etc.

I know some people take their $40k Wrangler Unlimited Rubicons down rock canyons but I can't feel good about spending that kind of money on a car only to destroy it. :P $5-10k, however, might let a little trail damage happen from time to time. :)

From my experience the 4runners are easier to work on, get (slightly) better fuel economy, and don't weigh damn near three tons.

Have you thought about a tacoma crew cab?

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Originally Posted by Tremek

I'm largely staying away from Jeeps due to being overpriced and under-reliable within the price range I'm looking at, but am open to suggestions. Thanks in advance - if you have an opinion share the why as well. :)

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I've owned nothing but Jeeps for the last 20 years and have not had any reliability problems. In fact, I've never once broken down on the street or the trail. Been stuck in the mud a few times and beat up some sheet metal though. :)

I've done tons of trails in a '99 Cherokee Sport and a '95 Grand Cherokee. The Grand ran for 398K miles before I traded it in for the Wrangler I have now. All I ever replaced on that was a water pump. The Wrangler has ~160K miles and doesn't leak/burn a drop of oil.

I think the "reliability" reputation that people hear is because some people drive them like they are tanks and unbreakable. You can't drive them like they do in the commercials. Maintain them and they run great.

Yotas are great vehicles too though, if that's what you're leaning toward.

Just go buy a damn pinz and get it over with.

Find an old scout they'll take the abuse. I've got a 76 scout II with the original 258 and so far every jeep part I've tried will fit the engine so you have a couple of avenues to go for parts...

You really should consider a Jeep Cherokee or Grand Cherokee in addition to the ones you listed.

I love Scouts but no way I'd consider one for an expedition vehicle.

If you want to make a reasonable choice: Go with the 4 runner: they are well build, reliable, the parts are cheap and there is a large online community to support you.

Now if you don't care about reason and just want plain fun: Get a jeep!!! Les reliable, but more parts and more ways to make it a one of a kind.

the 4.0 ltr motor found in nearly every jeep from 1984 to 2000s is one of the most reliable engines ever built, cheap, easy to work on and 300K miles is a reasonable expectation for that motor.

a complete long block replacement can be had for $500,

the jeep cherokee platform is easily the best all round 4x4 for family wheeling and hardcore wheeling.

parts are plentiful, easily had, building one is easy and cost effective.

and as opposed to toyota replacing front end parts on the trail if necessary is way easier on a jeep front axle than the toyota, steering joint are simple, fixing a birfield when they break on the trail is a major pain in the a..

the solid front axle toyotas would be a decent choice, but yota went to IFS a long time ago and theose solid axle rigs are getting way long in the tooth.

The 4Runner is a good platform. However, if you are price sensitive, you can outfit a Jeep Cherokee XJ as a good expedition 4x4 for the cost of just picking up the base 4Runner of similar age.

A mild lift, taller tires, tow points or a rear hitch, a rear locking diff are most of what you'll need. I think the later Jeep Cherokees in the '97 to '99 range are good values and decent rigs. There is some suspicion of the durability of the head in the '00 and '01 engine. Avoid the Dana 35 rear axle found in the ABS equipped examples in that timeframe.

Next years raffle vehicle for the Colorado Association of 4WD Clubs is a Jeep Grand Cherokee. We picked up a 2002 in great condition for $5,000. We will be building it as an expedition type vehicle.

I built up a 95 Geo Tracker for really inexpensive. Not a lot of power, but it went everywhere I wanted to go. Top speed on the highway with mud tires was about 70. I was still getting around 25 MPG with a 4.5" lift and oversize tires. You can get a four door Tracker or Sidekick, there are a lot of aftermarket parts for them now. If you want more power, drop in a 4.3L Chevy, or a Volkswagen Diesel.
I love my 74 Scout II, but it only has a 3 speed in it, so top speed is about 65mph with stock running gear and tires. With the 258 6cyl, I am getting around 18mpg, but I will say it is very torquey.

I miss my old Scout too, but you can't find one that isn't rusted to hell.

I'm a Toyota from a Toyota family...

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Originally Posted by Tremek

- 3rd-generation Toyota 4runners - 96 through 2002, with 99-00 being the sweet spot (4WD transfer case that also allows for an unlocked center diff giving AWD functionality for sleet/snow/ice driving). I have a '98 4runner that I picked up for a song and really like but will probably be selling to get something in slightly nicer condition. The other option -

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Any 3rd gen will do, just make sure it has the and the 3.4l engine and E-diff lock button (next to the console), this was no longer available after 2000 and not at all on the SR5 auto transmission. There is also lots of aftermarket products and if you are feeling real frisky, they even have solid front-axle conversions too. You can build a family truckster, all the way up to a real rock-crawler.

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Originally Posted by Tremek

- Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ-80, preferably 1995-1997 (also includes Lexus LX 450 '96-97 as it's the same truck with some luxo cladding). Land Cruiser has solid front & rear axles, can be found with front & rear locking diffs (as well as a locking center diff) and are generally known to be bomb proof outside of the engine having occasional head gasket issues.

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Stay away from this one, unless you like regular $2k-$4k repair bills...

The FJ would fit the bill, but may be out of your price range.

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Originally Posted by Flatline

From my experience the 4runners are easier to work on, get (slightly) better fuel economy, and don't weigh damn near three tons.

Have you thought about a tacoma crew cab?

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I beg to differ….

My brother drove four of these things in the early 90s (new one every two years until his last one, a ‘95”. He limped the POS to my house on two dead cylinders with 130,000 pampered miles on the clock. Because he didn’t have the money, it fell on me to fix this thing….pulled the heads and discovered two burnt valves. I brought the heads in and was informed that my brother was one of the lucky few who didn’t have cracked heads. Of course, I had to put the POS back together; what a joy! In general, the thing was a gutless wonder that couldn’t tow for sh*t. The best “feature” was the defroster. On all his 4-Runners, only the bottom half of the windshield would be defrosted. Apparently, the blower motor was as weak and ridiculous as the engine put in it. ….oh, don't get me started on the rust problems and the lack of room for anybody over 5”2’.

I don’t know if the ’96+ is better, but the time I spent wrenching on this turd was far from enjoyable…I told him I would never work on one again! Anyhow, my brother’s praise of these things ended and he hasn’t bought one since.

He only got around 16-18mpg in all four; he sold it when gas spiked.

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Originally Posted by newracer

I love Scouts but no way I'd consider one for an expedition vehicle.

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On the contrary dear sir, I think Scouts are fantastic- my good buddy has one and we've ventured into some pretty awesome locales in that beast!

I like the 4Runner, I learned to drive on a 2000 5-speed that got me into and out of some fun areas! I would go with that one, especially in a manual, they give you a little more control and that Toyota transmission is tough! Those things will last forever too... Not the biggest fan of 90's Land Cruisers, but the 80's models (if you can find one in decent shape) are awesome!

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

On the contrary dear sir, I think Scouts are fantastic- my good buddy has one and we've ventured into some pretty awesome locales in that beast!

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Scouts are great 4x4 vehicles but no way an expedition vehicle. Expedition vehicles need to carry lots of gear, be somewhat comfortable to drive, get decent gas mileage, and most importantly be dependable and easy to repair. Other being able to carry a decent amount of cargo a Scout is none of these.

I don’t think I have any pictures of it, but this is what I have:

3/4 ’87 Suburban (Fuel Injected 350 with 3L80 = (Trubo 400)) lifted 4” with 305-70-16s. The interior is clean with no rips or tears and it was painted about 10 years ago.

I can put the three dogs in it plus kennels, three kids, and gear, and I can pull either my camper or the tandem axle trailer with the K5 trail rig or ATVs for the whole family.

I paid $1,500 for the Suburban, $200 for the wheels and tires, and nothing for the lift...had it thrown in on a different purchase.

Maintenance costs in five years = $100 for a battery, $30 for a power steering pump, and $50 for a new exhaust pipe. Oh, I paid $200 for a sheered bolt on the steering knuckle. Not bad…less than a $100 per year average. When the engine goes, I can build one blind folded, or I can throw a Cummins 5.9 24v in it. When I drive down that narrow trail with the branches scrapping the sides…I don’t care and I have fun.

MPG is not great (12-14 empty) (8-10 w/ trailer). Although, I only use it when needed.

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Originally Posted by MED

I don’t know if the ’96+ is better,

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3rd gens are much better.

The 1st gen (84'-89') was a pretty good off-roader, but only came with a 4 cylinder (but will run forever). There is however the elusive 84'-85' with the solid front axle that kicks butt off road.

The gen 3 (96'-01') had a better engine and transmission and clobber the 2nd gen with its 3.slow V6. There is a bolt-on TRD super-charger that will make this vehicle scream!

You can also upgrade to the ARB air-lockers which are popular with off-roadies and Jeep folks.

I think any of those choices would be fine.. depends on the actual vehicle that you find I would say... keep your search open, and grab the best truck and the best price.

there are some very capable jeep cherokees out there.... and the staright 6 in those is a very good motor.

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Originally Posted by spyder

Suzuki Samuri all the way...

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Yes!!

Eff jeeps. These colors don't run.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/...4/DSCN1274.jpg

Here you go.

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Originally Posted by revor

Here you go.

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Sweet ride

If I had the cash for something that I could just build into a toy, I'd probably go the Jeep Cherokee route. They can be had pretty cheap and the aftermarket support is huge. You could build it into a great weekend rig for your family.

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Originally Posted by FARM

Find an old scout they'll take the abuse. I've got a 76 scout II with the original 258 and so far every jeep part I've tried will fit the engine so you have a couple of avenues to go for parts...

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Don't buy a Scout. Unless you love rust.

Im a jeep guy myself, 82 CJ-7, but what I would suggest is the FJ-80. For expedition trucks they are hard to beat. Lots of room if you are really going to be spending a lot of time out. They are expensive to own though, both in maintence and fuel.

Check out Slee off-road in golden. Lots of good FJ articles one that page.

You already mentioned the best option. I would look for a 96-97 Land Cruiser or LX450. Here is a picture of the one that I had for a few years. Only reason I sold it was due to not being able to accomodate the rear facing infant seat when my daughter was born.

http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMGP0143.jpg

I drive this suburban now. It's been a good vehicle, and the things that I have had to fix have been minimal.

http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/...DSC_0097-1.jpg

Already mentioned the FJ, but good luck finding one in "good" condition. Every one I've ever seen has over 200k on it, not to mention all the other stuff mentioned.

I like the Pinz, but don't think it is a good expo vehicle, nor good for a family with the seperate compartments. Final note on the Pinz, if you want a nimble rock crawler, the independant axles on the Pinz will be more stiff than you want.