Dog Attacks Bear, Owner threatened by DOW

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05-23-2012, 19:02
tmjohnson

Dog Attacks Bear, Owner threatened by DOW

I talked to a sheep rancher in Cortez today, He has his ewes close to his house to lamb. He keeps his guard dog to guard the sheep. A bear came in the pasture and the dog attacked the bear, running the bear off. A bunny hugger saw the dog at work and called DOW. The DOW officer came out and told the sheep producer he needs to tie his dog up, so the dog won't harass the bears. The producer told the DOW officer that the dog was doing his job,and he wasn't about to tie the dog up. THe DOW officer said if it happened again he would be issued a citation.
Can DOW really issue a citation when the dog was using NON-LETHAL force to run the bear off? And the dog did not use excessive force, just run him back thru the fence
05-23-2012, 19:10
J

Sounds a bit off, first not DOW jurisdiction:

Quote:

The Division of Wildlife regulates commercial and recreational trapping of wildlife in addition to any activities involving threatened or endangered species. State law, enacted in 1996, gives the Commissioner of Agriculture authority over individual animals or groups of animals that may prey on agricultural products and livestock.

I'm looking through CRS to find something relevant. I'm sure there is something in there. I did find the following posted in 2008 by the DOW. Not entirely relevant, but I did like the attitude.

Quote:

On behalf of the Colorado Division of Wildlife, I felt it appropriate to add a brief note. The DOW is not 'turning a blind eye' (to sheep dogs). The DOW has absolutely nothing to do with regulation of sheep grazing, sheep herding, sheep herders or sheep dogs .........

If it comes to anyone's attention that the bighorn sheep are hiring packs of aggressive dogs, please get back with us as it will then be 'our' problem.

Good luck and safe recreation.

Randy Hampton, public information officer, Colorado Division of Wildlife, northwest region.

- Randy Hampton

Additionally, I remember reports of people who shot mountain lions in the defense of their dogs (dogs saved the guy from lion, guy runs inside and grabs gun to shoot lion before dogs are killed). The information I found on that incident indicated that the shooter was guilty of poaching, because the dogs were not live-stock, and therefore not covered under statute. Looking for that info too.
05-23-2012, 19:22
xring

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmjohnson

I talked to a sheep rancher in Cortez today, He has his ewes close to his house to lamb. He keeps his guard dog to guard the sheep. A bear came in the pasture and the dog attacked the bear, running the bear off. A bunny hugger saw the dog at work and called DOW. The DOW officer came out and told the sheep producer he needs to tie his dog up, so the dog won't harass the bears. The producer told the DOW officer that the dog was doing his job,and he wasn't about to tie the dog up. THe DOW officer said if it happened again he would be issued a citation.
Can DOW really issue a citation when the dog was using NON-LETHAL force to run the bear off? And the dog did not use excessive force, just run him back thru the fence

Last i knew it is a $300 fine for a dog to chase any big game.
05-23-2012, 19:29
Eggysrun

Quote:

Originally Posted by xring

Last i knew it is a $300 fine for a dog to chase any big game.

What about hunting dogs?
05-23-2012, 19:39
hammer03

Quote:

9.) CAN I SHOOT A BLACK BEAR OR MOUNTAIN LION IF IT IS ATTACKING MY DOG OR MY
LIVESTOCK? Statute 33-3-106
• Black bears and mountain lions CAN NOT be destroyed when they are causing damage to personal property,
including pets.
• Black bears and mountain lions CAN be killed when it is NECESSARY to prevent them from inflicting death or injury
to LIVESTOCK, HUMAN LIFE, real property, or a motor vehicle. Any wildlife killed shall remain the property of
the state, and such killing shall be reported to the division within five days. “Real property” means land and generally
whatever is erected or growing upon or affixed to land. (Note: “Personal Property” means everything that is subject to
ownership, other than real estate. Personal property includes moveable and tangible things, such as animals, furniture
and merchandise.)

So, pets can't be protected, but livestock can be. Next time he needs to shoot the bear instead of letting the dog run it off, according to the DOW... http://www.joycefoster.com/docs/coyo...feLaws1209.pdf
05-23-2012, 19:44
J

My dog and my gun are always near and on me, respectively. If one attacks my dog, I am in real danger... attacking Mtn Lion at 3 ft distance is a real danger. Its getting dispatched judiciously.
05-23-2012, 19:56
Danimal

He should shoot the bear if there is another incident. The citation that he would get is there for a reason. Basically people would use their dogs to tree a bear then shoot it in order to "protect" their dogs. In order to stop that type of poaching, having the dogs involved at all had to be made illegal. The DOW will come and set up a trap to catch the bear and relocate it if need be. They are generally very accommodating when it comes to protecting livestock and personal property. It is easier to trap the bear and relocate it than do a game damage estimate, file the paperwork, and pay out to the land owner who will always feel ripped off.
05-23-2012, 19:58
J

Also, have them talk to the County commissioner of agriculture. They have final say in regards to deprecating animals on livestock.
05-23-2012, 20:36
GilpinGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammer03

So, pets can't be protected, but livestock can be. Next time he needs to shoot the bear instead of letting the dog run it off, according to the DOW... http://www.joycefoster.com/docs/coyo...feLaws1209.pdf

So the actual livestock can be protected...by a human...but not by a dog, who's purpose is to protect the livestock. Gubmint at it's finest.

This is one of those judgement calls f-ed up by the DOW officer.
05-23-2012, 21:38
Irving

Why the hell was a hippie around in the first place?
05-23-2012, 21:41
Sharpienads

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilpinGuy

So the actual livestock can be protected...by a human...but not by a dog, who's purpose is to protect the livestock. Gubmint at it's finest.

This is one of those judgement calls f-ed up by the DOW officer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

Why the hell was a hippie around in the first place?

Both very good points.
05-23-2012, 21:48
BigBear

Don't worry guys, I'm ok. It was a small dog....

Congrats on the dog for doing his job. Ban bears, it's for the children!!!
05-25-2012, 18:46
tmjohnson

I talked to the State Vet's office and they said DOW have no jurisdiction, the dog was protecting livestock, that is his job. The animal was not harassing the bear for fun, his intent was to keep the bear from killing sheep. The DOW can not issue a citation. If the owner has any problems, the State Vet's office will step in and take care of it.
05-25-2012, 19:07
baglock1

Quote:

9.) CAN I SHOOT A BLACK BEAR OR MOUNTAIN LION IF IT IS ATTACKING MY DOG OR MY
LIVESTOCK? Statute 33-3-106
• Black bears and mountain lions CAN NOT be destroyed when they are causing damage to personal property,
including pets.
• Black bears and mountain lions CAN be killed when it is NECESSARY to prevent them from inflicting death or injury
to LIVESTOCK, HUMAN LIFE, real property, or a motor vehicle. Any wildlife killed shall remain the property of
the state, and such killing shall be reported to the division within five days. “Real property” means land and generally
whatever is erected or growing upon or affixed to land. (Note: “Personal Property” means everything that is subject to
ownership, other than real estate. Personal property includes moveable and tangible things, such as animals, furniture
and merchandise.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammer03

So, pets can't be protected, but livestock can be. Next time he needs to shoot the bear instead of letting the dog run it off, according to the DOW... http://www.joycefoster.com/docs/coyo...feLaws1209.pdf

Read what you quoted again, specifically the part I bolded (and underlined). Pets are animals and thus real property.
05-25-2012, 19:16
Ah Pook

The dog is protecting the herd. It's a herding dog, that's what it does. Why is this an issue? On private property the owner has the right to protect it's animals.
05-25-2012, 19:25
Sharpienads

Quote:

Originally Posted by baglock1

Read what you quoted again, specifically the part I bolded (and underlined). Pets are animals and thus real property.

What he was saying was that if the bear was coming onto the property to get the livestock, he should shoot the bear (legal) instead of have the dog who is protecting the livestock chase it off (supposedly illegal, according to DOW).

Of course it makes more sense to have the dog chase off the bear, since the bear is just doing what bears do and the dog is just doing what he's trained to do. No harm done, but DOW is giving him grief about it.
05-25-2012, 20:05
hammer03

Quote:

Originally Posted by baglock1

Read what you quoted again, specifically the part I bolded (and underlined). Pets are animals and thus real property.

Bolded a different part for you.

Quote:

9.) CAN I SHOOT A BLACK BEAR OR MOUNTAIN LION IF IT IS ATTACKING MY DOG OR MY
LIVESTOCK? Statute 33-3-106
• Black bears and mountain lions CAN NOT be destroyed when they are causing damage to personal property, including pets.
• Black bears and mountain lions CAN be killed when it is NECESSARY to prevent them from inflicting death or injury
to LIVESTOCK, HUMAN LIFE, real property, or a motor vehicle. Any wildlife killed shall remain the property of
the state, and such killing shall be reported to the division within five days. “Real property” means land and generally
whatever is erected or growing upon or affixed to land. (Note: “Personal Property” means everything that is subject to
ownership, other than real estate. Personal property includes moveable and tangible things, such as animals, furniture
and merchandise.)

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But when they specifically mention it as something that "animals" doesn't apply to, I see the rancher having a hard time arguing it.

Next time, shoot the bear, and run the DOW folks off the property. Problem solved.
05-26-2012, 13:01
WETWRKS

Ok...so what he needed was some sort of spray stuff that draws a bear to it. Then when the bear comes around go to talk with the hippy. While talking with the hippe just spray them with the bear spray. Once the hippy has been dealt with let the dog run off the bear. :D
05-26-2012, 16:06
Sharpienads

Quote:

Originally Posted by WETWRKS

Ok...so what he needed was some sort of spray stuff that draws a bear to it. Then when the bear comes around go to talk with the hippy. While talking with the hippe just spray them with the bear spray. Once the hippy has been dealt with let the dog run off the bear. :D

There's always a way around the law :)
05-26-2012, 17:39
J

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammer03

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But when they specifically mention it as something that "animals" doesn't apply to, I see the rancher having a hard time arguing it.

Next time, shoot the bear, and run the DOW folks off the property. Problem solved.

The difference is it does NOT apply to pets, dogs, etc. It DOES apply to livestock. Sheep also have the highest depredation rate of any livestock, as they fight back very little compared to a Mtn Lion of Blk Bear. Since sheep are livestock, and the bear poses a real danger to the sheep, game on, IMHO.
05-27-2012, 20:10
baglock1

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammer03

Bolded a different part for you.

Good catch, but read the bullet right after that one. They contradict each other in a sense. It sounds like you can kill it to PREVENT an attack, but if the attack is already in progress, you can't do anything.

I can somewhat see the logic, but if it were me, I'd shoot the damn thing and bury my dog. When DOW showed up, I'd claim it was after my truck. "See? Not a scratch on it."