http://www.scotusblog.com/2012/06/co...ial-v-edwards/
[Rant1]
Printable View
Waste of my tax payer money to put a faker in jail for a year. Let them lie and they will continue to get caught and look foolish.
Oh really? Of all the ways that your taxpayer money gets wasted, that would not be one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyfairbanks
There could just be an official squad the beats them within an inch of their miserable, lying lives. no jail, just a public, televised beating by the government goons.
While I think it's a cheap thing to do, nobody is harmed by someone pretending to be something they are not. There was no loss of life or property, and nobody was hurt by it. Why punish someone for acting like a retard in a nonviolent manner? And what does locking them up accomplish?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmedges
I agree... it reduces the validity of anything we actual veterans say. Now there could be a shadow of doubt on a lot of things and pretty much anyone can say "Yeah, I fought in Iraq and got a silver star." Unless said in an application there probably won't be a requirement for them to show their DD214. This was one of the few newer laws I actually supported. I'll stick kick a liar if I find out they didn't actually serve. [Rant1]Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmedges
Most of these guys are not only lying, they are receiving benefits from their lies. That is why they need to go to jail. We had a few here at Ft. Carson falsifying service to receive veteran benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
its usually guys who didnt serve who object to this law. they didnt serve, so they dont feel the pride. they see it as just some job.
I couldn't agree more with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
I'm curious to know how many SCOTUS justices are veterans... [Dunno]Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
while I think that people who lie about service are scum and should be kicked in the balls, they do so under the 1st amendment.... the very same 1st that you swore to defend.
on the scotus biography page, it doesnt list even one served. lawyers get out of things like service to country, duty, honor. they can just be born in to privileged families, go to an expensive college, become a lawyer,get on the bench and then collect money until they die for legislating from the bench.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Stevens was the last judge to have served in the military. none of the current judges ever served.
I don't know. I did, however, go to Ranger School with Scalia's son - now an IN LTC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Well then does it come as a real surprise that they shot this act down? With this and Obamacare I pretty much have lost all hope in the SCOTUS... So uh guys, when are we going to be scheduling that Coup?Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
^This. The First Amendment lets you say whatever the hell you want, lie about anything, as long as it doesn't cause anybody harm or loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
So lying and benefitting from lies is ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT
It's politics in a nutshell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmedges
I would support this.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
In most cases that fell under Stolen Valor (and the several cases that prompted it's creation) there is harm and/or loss...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Again, the folks I have seen and interacted with who were lying about service were all receiving some sort of benefit = stealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Can I dress up as a police officer and just walk around, I mean first amendment right? Why am I typing this at school? I should just be able to lie about having my degree.
If a guy was just lying, it's stupid to throw him in jail. Those who think it is ok have seriously not thought it through. You would let the government punish people for a moral issue that doesn't hurt anyone... Do you see where all this can lead? Now, I understand if someone was lying and getting military benifits because of their lies, I would want them to go to jail as that is theft.
The part about >just< lying about serving and having that be a punishable crime is just stupid and asking for more government rule in the future.
I’d rather have a slew of asshat military fakers than continue to see our constitutional rights taken away.
It is different from a police officer as the military has no power over civilians in any way here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmedges
Fixed it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
Freedom is having people disagree with you. I don't want the "freedom" where everyone is in agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT
The Military defends the freedom of lairs, flag burners, KKK, Neo Nazi, grandma, protesting the health care bill, protesting the SCOTUS, Protesting, this website, this discussion. It's a Thankless job by many people, but no one made you sign up, unless you were drafted.
We always say if they ban Saiga 12s then moss bergs with shoulder things that go up are next. Then O/Us, then this. This is the same concept but with the first.
There are laws in place about benefitting from false service.
If you're that insecure about your service that you get mad when someone says they did something they didn't you need to take a good look at yourself.
Are posers losers, lairs, and douch nozzles? Yes, but that's their right, until they use it to steal.
If only they could pass a law that made stealing illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by airborneranger
It is not. It is perfectly legal to dress up as a police officer and go about my business. If you run for office and claim to have won the medal of honor, did that claim influence people to vote for you? If you won can the argument then be made that your lies directly benefited you? That is exactly what Xavier Alvarez did. If I was in a job interview and I have valor awards on my resume, could I be considered for a job above other people because of it? If I said I was a Navy SeAL and then got stuff for free because of it, it that also ok? The thought that this is a victim less crime is foolish. The notion that I am mad about stolen valor because of my lack of military medals is also a foolish one.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
So tonight maybe I should go down the the fire line in Colorado Springs dressed in my firefighting best. As long as I don't claim to be a firefighter then it is perfectly Ok. I can answer peoples questions, look official, maybe even make it on the news. In the world that you people want then that is perfectly acceptable.
So would you rather everyone get arrested brim every Halloween?
Should parents who dress up like Santa Claus get arrested and put in prison?
How about actors filming a movie?
Its not victimless if they steal no one is arguing that. There are laws in place for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmedges
That's not the same as saying months from now, "I was there fighting fires." Unless you're applying for a job with the FD.Quote:
So tonight maybe I should go down the the fire line in Colorado Springs dressed in my firefighting best. As long as I don't claim to be a firefighter then it is perfectly Ok. I can answer peoples questions, look official, maybe even make it on the news. In the world that you people want then that is perfectly acceptable.
You apparently didn't read my quote very well where I said it is different because military personnel do not have any power in the civilian world where a cop does. It's different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmedges
Now would it be right of you to pretend to be a firefighter to get some kind of recognition? No. Should lying be illegal if it doesn't hurt anyone? No. Now the moment that it gets into legal ground and starts hurting/defrauding someone else, yes, it should be illegal.
I guess however "in the world that you want", the government should be able to tell us what is moral and what isn't, and be able to punish us as it sees fit. Maybe in your world, they can make it illegal to cut in lines, or, chew with your mouth open in public... that's just annoying...
Besides, impersonating a cop or other position of authority is already illegal at the local level.
No, only for the Military since they are some sort of protected class.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
It's only illegal if I claim to be a cop. Looking like one is perfectly ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
But defrauding people for benefits is indeed what is happening. If it truly is a victim less crime than why is it so easy to find people benefiting from the lies they spread about their "service".Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
If you put that you were in the military on a job application, it is illegal I'm pretty sure also as it is fraud. I'm just arguing that the guy in a bar saying he was in the military is just a dumb ass, and no, that kind of stupid shit should not be punishable by law. If you are getting something legal out of your lies, I say that they should be punished. Again though, the loser that poses as military personel past or present just to look cool, is just a loser doing nothing illegal, unless you make being too much of a loser illegal.... I might go for that though.... [Tooth] J/K
I'm going to go with it not being illegal as far as the military folk being pissed about it yeah you probably should be. I certainly would be. On the flip side of the coin I know a couple of fellas I went to school with who served during peace time but since it has become a "thing" they happily lie like hell about their service which now includes a liberal dose of combat experience because it gets them free drinks and laid. IMHO they are every bit as bad seeing as what they do cheapens what are actual combat vets have been through. Another example actually comes from my high school days when one of our local LEOs who was also retired military pistol whipped his wife into the ICU when she caught him cheating and wanted a divorce. He disgraced 2 uniforms and got paid leave for it. Shouldnt both of those examples also merit a beat down?
Just tossing a little devils advocate out there.
As always to our actual vets and everyone still serving you have my thanks after all since 1775 you folks have made and kept us free to have these very discussions.
I agree with you on the situation posted, but again the reality of this is people are benefiting from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Unless you're accompanied by a construction worker, Indian chief, cowboy and soldier. Then it's fabulous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmedges