Sticking to their guns: Marines place $22.5M order for the Colt .45 M1911

Why change a good thing?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/28...liber-pistols/

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It’s been called the greatest handgun ever made, and it has barely changed sine 1911, when the legendary John Browning designed it especially for the U.S. Military.
And now, the Colt .45 M1911 is making a big comeback, now that the U.S. Marines have placed a $22.5 million order for the Connecticut-made pistols.
The gun, which has been wielded on film by John Wayne and in real life by Sgt. Alvin York and Maj. Audie Murphy, was the standard-issue sidearm in the military for decades, until it was replaced by the Beretta M9 in 1985.

"It just became an iconic part of military and American history."

- Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense

"It just became an iconic part of military and American history," Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense, told FoxNews.com.
The gun, one of the most successful pistols ever used at Camp Perry's National Matches, a competition known to be the main world event in artillery sports, has barely changed since it's creation. Dinkel says that shows the gun's "elegant design" just can't be improved on. And firearms experts agree.
"You can’t beat a .45 cartridge," Jack Lewis, firearms director for Cowan's Auctions, told FoxNews.com. "Some things are hard to replace," he said.
Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support. The gun has long been the weapon of choice for special operations agents, thanks to its reliability and the stopping power of its massive bullets.
"I'm really glad that they're keeping it in the American economy," Lewis, who used the gun while he was in the armed forces, said. "I was quite upset when they went to the Beretta," Lewis said.
Some reports suggest Marines are not happy with their main Beretta M9s for their lack of accuracy and stopping power. With M1911's now supplying Special Ops, growing interest may lead to a better solution.
"To have the 1911 selected again for U. S. Forces 101 years after its initial introduction is just an incredible testament to the timeless design and effectiveness of the Colt 1911," Dinkel said. "This is truly a gratifying contract award."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/28...#ixzz21wsO8dVS

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I think the HK45 would have been a much better choice but who am I to talk.

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Originally Posted by Cylinder Head

I think the HK45 would have been a much better choice but who am I to talk.

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Heresy!! The H&K is a fine weapon, but it was not handed down from on high by John Moses Browning.

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Originally Posted by Cylinder Head

I think the HK45 would have been a much better choice but who am I to talk.

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I think it's good that they are keeping the dollars state side.

Besides, just about anyone can effectively handle a 1911, but some of the women or guys with smaller hands may have difficulty handling a hk45.

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Originally Posted by Flatline

I think it's good that they are keeping the dollars state side.

Besides, just about anyone can effectively handle a 1911, but some of the women or guys with smaller hands may have difficulty handling a hk45.

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This. I'm a smallish guy with smallish hands, and I always had some issues with the M9. I'm much more natural and more accurate with my 1911.

Terrible idea. Glock would have been better.

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Terrible idea. Glock would have been better.

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(common) People in the Military are too stupid to use a gun with no safety.

The 1911 just doesn't have the capacity and is heavy for what it is.


And the part about the M9's lack of accuracy and stopping power is just stupid lol


That being said, I'm glad they are keeping their business with their country

I agree, kinda dumb. The 1911 is a great gun, don't get me wrong. For CCW is fine, though not my cup of tea, but if I'm litterally taking a pistol with me to war, it should hold way more than 7 rounds. To quote the infamous rapper "funk dat!"

Capacity is king...

I think ergonomics is a big part in why I like 1911s so much. The M9 feels beefcake, unless one has have a XL hand, the pistol gets unwieldy for me.
Here's some capacity.[ROFL1]

http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_...od/MAG-263.jpg

choosing to go back to a design over a 100 years old is just plain... duh. Some military purchaser got nostalgic.

Why not go back to the 1903 Springfield too? The people who claim the M-16/M4 who don't have enough stopping power will be silenced.

There is a reason things change... those that are stuck on the 1911 is just nostalgia. I too went through the 1911 nostalgia stage when I 1st started collecting firearms. Then I realized there are better guns... Hand built 1911's are pieces of art. Most 1911's these days are mass produced plinkers. From the initial tests that put the M9 in the hands of the military, the 9mm was more accurate and reliable than the military 1911 in most people's hands. I'm not talking about hand built tuned accurate 1911's. That is the reason for the big switch. The bonus was magazine capacity.

I also do not buy in to the 45ACP is king theory. For those that want superior stopping power need to look at the (full house) 10mm for ammo capacity and energy. It puts the 45ACP to shame in all categories.

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Originally Posted by Wiggity

And the part about the M9's lack of accuracy and stopping power is just stupid lol

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I have a friend that did two tours and had to use his M9 in a real life situation that would disagree with you. ;)

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Originally Posted by Chad4000

Capacity is king...

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Personally, I'd say reliability is king. And keep in mind it's very easy to get 11 rounds in a single stack 1911 if you (or the military) chooses to go with 10 round mags. That's only a few less than the combat Tupperware guns out there.

I think it's an excellent choice. From a completely nostalgic viewpoint, I think it's fantastic.

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Originally Posted by jerrymrc

I have a friend that did two tours and had to use his M9 in a real life situation that would disagree with you. ;)

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How would the .45 have performed better? Unless you hit something vital, the difference in stopping power is negligible. 9mm-.45 are just plain shitty for stopping power.

Maybe I should have qualified my post with "compared to the .45" [Coffee]

I hate the beretta, the ergos and shape just feel awful to me.

For those of you who are saying the M9 has ample stopping power, remember that the Hague convention prohibits expanding ammo. So while we or our police have, IMHO, ample stopping power with 124gr +p hollow points, they shoot FMJs. Might as well stab the guy with a thin ice pick.

That said, if I was I Kandahar, I'd like more than 8 shots. A glock 21 perhaps for me. Better capacity, broad bullet face, and a proven and reliable design. Of course the mil wants a safety, perhaps for $23M gaston could make a custom model for them.

FMJs suck in general, Keep in mind they wound not kill.

The Marines aren't known for being especially smart. Single action only sucks, Especially if you need the double action.


Keep in Mind if your using your pistol, as a common ground guy, you're either a tanker in 2003 or in some seriously deep shit.

I like the 1911 but there are better choices for a combat hand gun. "but jordan, its a 100 year old design that works" So was standing in a line and shooting at each other.

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Originally Posted by Jayock

I hate the beretta, the ergos and shape just feel awful to me.

For those of you who are saying the M9 has ample stopping power, remember that the Hague convention prohibits expanding ammo. So while we or our police have, IMHO, ample stopping power with 124gr +p hollow points, they shoot FMJs. Might as well stab the guy with a thin ice pick.

That said, if I was I Kandahar, I'd like more than 8 shots. A glock 21 perhaps for me. Better capacity, broad bullet face, and a proven and reliable design. Of course the mil wants a safety, perhaps for $23M gaston could make a custom model for them.

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+1 deployed with a m9 and hated it, loved getting it back from the armsroom with a layer of rust on it even after coating it with clp. L think the 1911 was a better choice but imo they couldve done better

Agreed on FMJs sucking Jordan. But if I'm shooting FMJ, I want .45" instead of .36". And I'm a guy who has 6 pistol 9mms and only 2 .45s

I like the 9mm round, but not if I'm forced to use FMJ.

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Originally Posted by Jayock

I hate the beretta, the ergos and shape just feel awful to me.

For those of you who are saying the M9 has ample stopping power, remember that the Hague convention prohibits expanding ammo. So while we or our police have, IMHO, ample stopping power with 124gr +p hollow points, they shoot FMJs. Might as well stab the guy with a thin ice pick.

That said, if I was I Kandahar, I'd like more than 8 shots. A glock 21 perhaps for me. Better capacity, broad bullet face, and a proven and reliable design. Of course the mil wants a safety, perhaps for $23M gaston could make a custom model for them.

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Weird, they feel great to me, but I have monster hands.

Again, its all about shot placement. You hit someone in the face, spine, neck, heart, major arteries, and its over.

There is a reason they still sell them. Some people must love em. I'm not part of that some people. To each their own.

So many better pistols even American made to have chosen instead. I am a 1911 guy and love CCWing it.

Id go as far as saying the S&W M&P 45 but woul dfirst say the XD45 would have
been the best choice if we are talking American made.

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Originally Posted by DD977GM2

So many better pistols even American made to have chosen instead. I am a 1911 guy and love CCWing it.

Id go as far as saying the S&W M&P 45 but woul dfirst say the XD45 would have
been the best choice if we are talking American made.

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Not trying to be a dick but arent xd's made croatia? Or are they just the hs2000 design and built in the states?

Croatia.

Everyone knows if you shoot a bag guy in the finger with a .45 ACP their head instantly bursts into flame . . . it is much better than a .357 magnum which will only shoot through engine blocks.

That being said, at $1,500 a pop those pieces better be Series 70 with ambi safety, trigger jobs, and match barrels.

There are a lot of opinions on this board about the 1911 buy that seem to not understand the intended enduser and their intended usage.

And I'm blown away by people citing foreign made pistols as American made ...

Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/28...#ixzz21xkExHw7

1. Are there 200,000 Marines? I thought there was only 3 divisions.
2. $22,500,000 for 12,000 1911's = $1875= I smell kickback

For those of you guys hating on the price the gov't paid, reread this part of the article:

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Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support.

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Who knows exactly what this means in the books, but it's probably considerably more support than just the pistol. It could amount to things like armorers training and kits, etc.

I figured this would stir debate. [Beer]

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Originally Posted by bogie

For those of you guys hating on the price the gov't paid, reread this part of the article:



Who knows exactly what this means in the books, but it's probably considerably more support than just the pistol. It could amount to things like armorers training and kits, etc.

I figured this would stir debate. [Beer]

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That's usually how contracts work. Parts, accessories, etc....

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Originally Posted by Fist_gonzo

Not trying to be a dick but arent xd's made croatia? Or are they just the hs2000 design and built in the states?

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Croatia......damnit. Nix that one off the list!!!!

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Originally Posted by Clint45

at $1,500 a pop those pieces better be Series 70

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Unless it was specifically changed for the Marines, Colt Rail Guns are Series-80.

I hated the M9 I shot in the Corps. It didn't feel good in my hand, and it was an inaccurate POS compared to other pistols I've fired. I know a lot of people like them though; just personal preference.

I agree that reliability trumps capacity any day. The M&P45 or even 40 would have been an excellent alternative, and likely cheaper than Colt 1911s.

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Originally Posted by Flatline

I think it's good that they are keeping the dollars state side.

Besides, just about anyone can effectively handle a 1911, but some of the women or guys with smaller hands may have difficulty handling a hk45.

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I have pretty damn small hands and use the large backstrap on my HK45. It's definitely not a USP. Besides these guns are now made in 'Murrica.

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Originally Posted by Fist_gonzo

Not trying to be a dick but arent xd's made croatia? Or are they just the hs2000 design and built in the states?

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Yes and they suck. Sorry to those who own XD's but you paid double what it's worth.

I liked my M9. It went bang every time because I did that thing you do to your guns when your life depends on them.... what it is?.......... oh MAINTAIN them.

I've seen how most people treat their "chow hall" weapon, hell I've seen how they treat their rifle. This goes back to the lack of discipline that is plaguing our nation and Military (I can only speak for the army, but everyone is getting touchy feely).



It's not the best out there, but like I said it shot every time I asked it to. As far as accuracy, if you can shoot the wings off a fly when your gross motor skills go out the window during a high stress engagement, more power to you. I'll aim and hit center mass every time. Again there are better guns than the 1911 and M9 for the military.

I agree

There are better guns.

I have a beretta. I'm partial to it, it's my first pistol. That said, I have to change my grip to drop a mag. The action is slower and clunky compared to my other pistols. It's proven itself to be less reliable, but I tracked it down to a bad magazine and it's now reliable. It is #1 in simplicity of takedown and cleaning, I hate pulling the trigger during disassembly. Accurate enough to hit a plate at 100yds.

I have a 1911, I like it, but as many have stated the capacity is not even half the M9. Takedown is the most complicated, accuracy is good, eats fmj flawlessly. Not my choice for battle though.

XD Yes made in croatia. mine has been 100% minus 1 reload that I suspect had an unseatd primer. Tighter action than the M9 , durble stainless mags this would have been a better choice.

Glock. Why not? safety? reliable, decently accurate, high capacity.

HK ,the weapon I'd have with me if I was given the choice. Cheaper than the 1911 too. The only one I don't have to change my grip to drop a mag. I'm plagued with short thumbs.

I don't have an M&P yet.


Nostalgia I guess. Of the guns listed the 1911 is the last one I would choose to go to war with.

With 7+1 it is half the capacity of an M9 at 15+1. With 8+1 it's over half.

And I agree with this wholeheartedly:

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

There are a lot of opinions on this board about the 1911 buy that seem to not understand the intended enduser and their intended usage.

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It's intended for MEUSOC. Not your typical grunt.

I find it a little silly, unless they start using the Willys too. They have been using 1911's for the longest time, certain groups never stopped. I heard they were rebuilding the same units they had before the M9. I also read the cost to rebuild these 30 year old guns was 1-2000 dollars. So this may be a deal. And I cant wait for the M9 spare parts to get thrown away. I'll be dumpster diving.

Thankfully most of us will never see combat or a life and death situation. Most of the people responding to this forum do not have a clue. However when the crap hits the fan 45 caliber wins every time against something smaller. Got the t-shirt. When you need to, reloading is not an issue. Shooting a threat more than 5 times and still having a threat is a problem.