Portable generators.

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08-14-2012, 16:55
Buckaroobonsai

Portable generators.

Having personally lived thru the aftermath of the Northridge earthquake and the L.A. Riots, I've become a bit of a prepper. Not so much the world ending scenarios with zombies invading, (although that would be fun), but the everyday reality type, like natural disasters and civil unrest.

In both cases, support services and utilities were back on online for most people within 3-4 days.The the Red Cross recommends a 72 hour emergency kit. I feel more comfortable with being prepared for at least 7 days to be safe. Weapons, ammo, food, water, tools, etc. are always ready to go if needed. Bug out bags and a 4x4 bug out SUV is also ready should we need to bail out as a last resort.

But let's get back on topic. Portable power generators. Giant Home Standby ones are more convenient, but are expensive and can't come with you. When we first moved to Adams County, we were experiencing power outages almost weekly for some reason. It's gotten better since then, but still happens. Sometimes it's only for less than an hour, other times it has gone on for over 5 hours. If a main station goes down, like has happened recently in Denver, it could be days. That's where these bad boys come in:

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...30b28bd20e.jpg

I bought the 4-Stroke 3500W first at one of the local auto part stores, for $300 I think. With proper break in and maintenance, this thing has started every time I needed it over the last several years! It has run a 40" LCD TV, Satellite box, a box fan and lights, all at the same time. It has even run my refrigerator for several hours once when needed!

The newest edition is the smaller 800W 2-Stroke. They currently sell on Harbor Freight for $130. I store the 3500W in the garage, drained of all gas, but fully serviced and tested every summer. This litle guy is kept ready to go, with gas & stabilizer, and tested monthly. It should fit the bill for short term outages, as well as being able to provide me with some electrical assistance should I need to get the 3500W filled and going. Plus, being mechanical, it's always smart to have a back up to the back up.

A heavy duty 50' extension cord and power surge multi-outlet lets me operate the generators on the back patio, and run the lines indoors, under the weather seal of the back door. No danger of carbon monoxide poisoning or engine noise. A staked ground wire outside quickly attaches to either.

Both are able to go in the back of the bug out Cherokee if I need to take them with me. I have enough gas stored in cans with stabilizer to last 2-3 days, depending on amount of use. A bulb syphon is on hand if I need more gas from the Jeep, which is always full. I have extra plugs and oil as well.

Just something to think about in case you haven't yet...
08-14-2012, 18:06
Bowtie

What was the fuel consumption on the big one when you where powering the TV and fridge? How much fuel do you keep for it?
08-14-2012, 18:34
Great-Kazoo

Why not do a line set/ disconnect box out back? We have a 30A one ready to plug n play if power goes out. You way is alright, but running multiple cords here and there might present an issue if rapid movement about the house became necessary.
We turn off the main, fire up the 6500 plug it in and relax.
08-14-2012, 19:38
Buckaroobonsai

I haven't run a full tank thru it in one sitting yet. Power has always come on before then! I believe the descriptions states that it can run 9 hours at half load per tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowtie

What was the fuel consumption on the big one when you where powering the TV and fridge? How much fuel do you keep for it?
08-14-2012, 19:42
Buckaroobonsai

Yeah Jim, I was looking at a power transfer kit as another option. Do you know if building code requires it be installed by or to be inspected by a licensed electrician?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Why not do a line set/ disconnect box out back? We have a 30A one ready to plug n play if power goes out. You way is alright, but running multiple cords here and there might present an issue if rapid movement about the house became necessary.
We turn off the main, fire up the 6500 plug it in and relax.
08-14-2012, 19:48
Wulf202

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckaroobonsai

Yeah Jim, I was looking at a power transfer kit as another option. Do you know if building code requires it be installed by or to be inspected by a licensed electrician?

as a home owner it should not be required. call the city to verify.
08-14-2012, 19:56
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf202

as a home owner it should not be required. call the city to verify.

Don't ask Don't tell. I had my guy do it (as with everything) to Code.
We removed the hard wired outlet for a spa and installed the 4 prong quick lock outlet. Have a 50' 10ga double male line foe gen to house.
08-14-2012, 20:46
Buckaroobonsai

Right on. Can you PM me his number? How much did it cost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Don't ask Don't tell. I had my guy do it (as with everything) to Code.
We removed the hard wired outlet for a spa and installed the 4 prong quick lock outlet. Have a 50' 10ga double male line foe gen to house.
08-14-2012, 20:49
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckaroobonsai

Right on. Can you PM me his number? How much did it cost?

2 BDM 22 cal mags for his AR:) There are a few local sparky's on the board in your area. My guy limits his off duty work as he pulls 12+ hr days then deals with the kids
PM sent
08-14-2012, 20:57
gnihcraes

I have a Coleman 1850 portable. It's served me well many of times here in the city. Once the snow took out a tree, which took out our main line. I was the only one with power for about 4 days until the line was repaired. Furnace, a couple lights and the fridge/freezer off and on.

Transfer Switch on the house is the best option if you can afford to have one installed. Plug in the generator and throw the proper switches for each desired circuit.

I used about one gallon of gas a day in the generator depending on the load obviously and how often I ran it. Couple hours for the fridge/freezer to maintain and then the furnace to keep us warm and run the TV.

Good to have. Test every few months. Which I'll probably test mine this weekend.
08-14-2012, 21:58
hghclsswhitetrsh

You really have to cover your ass when installing a generator to run the house. First thing is a three way switch so you don't back feed the grid with electricity. You shock a lineman and folks will come looking for you, and they'll know it's you because youre the only dude with lights and a/c on the grid. I know a very good electrician that can get you lined out, and he's a gun guy too! Pm me if you want his info.
08-14-2012, 22:15
HoneyBadger

So if I'm doing my math right, that little guy could power a standard refrigerator? My fridge draws 6amps at peak, which is 720 watts. Normal load from the fridge would probably be closer to 2-3 amps or 240-360 watts.

How noisy is it?
08-14-2012, 22:45
Buckaroobonsai

It's rated at 800W with a 900W max, so as long as your fridge doesn't surge past 900W at anytime, you should be GTG. It also has a built in circuit breaker. One online user stated he tested the noise level to be about 79dBa at idle from 10' away. That "sounds" about right to me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

So if I'm doing my math right, that little guy could power a standard refrigerator? My fridge draws 6amps at peak, which is 720 watts. Normal load from the fridge would probably be closer to 2-3 amps or 240-360 watts.

How noisy is it?
08-14-2012, 22:56
HoneyBadger

Would it be safe to put something like this in an insulated box? Run the exhaust through a muffler? I'm just interested in keeping sound to a minimum.
08-14-2012, 23:05
Irving

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Would it be safe to put something like this in an insulated box? Run the exhaust through a muffler? I'm just interested in keeping sound to a minimum.

Excellent question. You might run into cooling issues if your box is too insulated. Seems like a muffler exhausted outside, and the generator inside a garage would be pretty quiet. <-- I only say that because my neighbor has some family living in an old RV in his driveway, and I occasionally hear them crank up a generator. The generator sounds as old as the RV looks, and I would never hear it from inside my house.
08-14-2012, 23:12
Buckaroobonsai

I'd guess no. This little sucker gets plenty hot, and not just at the muffler. Honestly, I was standing about 10' away, with the muffler pointed right at me, and I could have carried on a conversation without raising my voice any more than normal. Now the bigger one is pretty loud, but not so loud that it's ever been an issue either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Would it be safe to put something like this in an insulated box? Run the exhaust through a muffler? I'm just interested in keeping sound to a minimum.
08-14-2012, 23:13
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Would it be safe to put something like this in an insulated box? Run the exhaust through a muffler? I'm just interested in keeping sound to a minimum.

Not unless you had a cooling fan. These units need air to maintain safe op temp. Minimize or restrict air flow and you have problems.
I looked at a few options to mask generator sound and came to the conclusion, no matter how quiet, lights in your dwelling is a dead give away.
If you want to keep noise to a minimum save your money and buy this unit. The Honda Eu2K runs forever on 1 gal of gas, unless you are standing real close, you'd be hard pressed to hear it run.
http://www.hondaenergy.com/product.php/38/honda_eu20i

Yamaha has a comparable unit
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....tor/p2785.html

The Eu2k is the flagship of portable "quiet" generators. They like the yamaha allow use of sensitive equipment like, pc's laptops etc.without needing to worry about damage to them.
08-14-2012, 23:58
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Not unless you had a cooling fan. These units need air to maintain safe op temp. Minimize or restrict air flow and you have problems.
I looked at a few options to mask generator sound and came to the conclusion, no matter how quiet, lights in your dwelling is a dead give away.
If you want to keep noise to a minimum save your money and buy this unit. The Honda Eu2K runs forever on 1 gal of gas, unless you are standing real close, you'd be hard pressed to hear it run.
http://www.hondaenergy.com/product.php/38/honda_eu20i

Yamaha has a comparable unit
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....tor/p2785.html

The Eu2k is the flagship of portable "quiet" generators. They like the yamaha allow use of sensitive equipment like, pc's laptops etc.without needing to worry about damage to them.

Whew! For $1000 I'm sure I can rig up some sort of muffler for the $130 generator... I'm thinking as long as the air intake leads to fresh air, the exhaust could go through a baffle lined with heat resistant low density foam to bring the noise down to about 50db or less. I guess the only way to find out would be to try it and I'm not really in a good place to try that right now. Don't have the right tools and I'm living in a rental house.
08-15-2012, 07:19
00tec

It's not the air intake that's the problem. These engines are air cooled, the heat sink fins on the cylinders are the only way it has to cool itself. If it was a liquid cooled engine, it wouldn't be a problem because you could just hang the radiator outside the box. Unless there's cool air circulating directly around the block itself, it will burn up. If you want to build something super quiet, you'll either have to spend too much money, or connect the generator head to a liquid cooled engine.
08-15-2012, 08:48
HoneyBadger

An insulated box with some decent fans blowing in/out would circulate enough air I think. You'd have to build about a 4'x4' box to stick it in so it has plenty of breathing room, but can't you direct the exhaust away from the engine and through a sound deadening baffle? Am I talking crazy here? I'm thinking I could build this type of box for about 50 in materials if I had the tools. (circular saw is necessary, nailer would be nice)
08-15-2012, 08:50
Wulf202

the little ones also can do damage to sensitive electronics just during regular running. they can screw up a fridge if they run out of gas and sputter.
08-15-2012, 08:52
00tec

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

An insulated box with some decent fans blowing in/out would circulate enough air I think. You'd have to build about a 4'x4' box to stick it in so it has plenty of breathing room, but can't you direct the exhaust away from the engine and through a sound deadening baffle? Am I talking crazy here? I'm thinking I could build this type of box for about 50 in materials if I had the tools. (circular saw is necessary, nailer would be nice)

You could, but by redirecting and baffling the exhaust, you will reduce the engine's power.
08-15-2012, 09:14
Buckaroobonsai

Unless you have a higher end generator with one built in, I would use a good power strip with surge protector, or better yet a power conditioner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf202

the little ones also can do damage to sensitive electronics just during regular running. they can screw up a fridge if they run out of gas and sputter.
08-15-2012, 09:22
Wulf202

surge protectors don't stop the low voltage issues caused by the generators.

by the time you buy all the stuff for the cheap generator you're nearly at the price of the Honda.

cry once
08-15-2012, 09:41
HoneyBadger

alright alright. I guess I'll just sell a kidney and get a product that works from the start. I didn't think about the power loss.

So with larger generators you don't have to worry about damaging your goods when they sputter? Can you explain this a little better? Sorry, I'm a noob to generators, but you guys are teaching me lots of good stuff. [Awesom]
08-15-2012, 09:52
00tec

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

alright alright. I guess I'll just sell a kidney and get a product that works from the start. I didn't think about the power loss.

So with larger generators you don't have to worry about damaging your goods when they sputter? Can you explain this a little better? Sorry, I'm a noob to generators, but you guys are teaching me lots of good stuff. [Awesom]

The expensive ones have all kinds if electronic goodies inside to smooth out the ripple of the output. When the engine starts to die, the rpm surges up and down producing peaks and valleys in output, hondas have circuitry to smooth it out.
This kind of thing isnt typically very harmful to something like an old fridge, deep freezer, or fans (unless they have fancy electronics), but TVs, computers, etc, it can kill.
08-15-2012, 10:02
00tec

A little different, but has anyone built their own? I can get a good sized generator head, and was thinking of putting on a steel yard cart with a small engine, belt (or chain) driven with an alternator on it as well. Would make a nice generator/jump starter. Water cooled would be even better.
08-15-2012, 10:04
ChunkyMonkey

Sparky should chime in on cost etc. I have been wanting to do this for awhile.
08-15-2012, 10:04
Buckaroobonsai

Under $200 for a decent power conditioner, and yes, that's why I said, "better yet". So with my $300 3500w generator and my $130 Monster MP HTS, my entertainment system has been running just fine every time I needed it, for the past several years. That and a light, fan and the fridge. When the power goes out, I don't cry, I laugh!

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-MP-HTS.../ref=pd_cp_e_0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf202

surge protectors don't stop the low voltage issues caused by the generators.

by the time you buy all the stuff for the cheap generator you're nearly at the price of the Honda.

cry once
08-15-2012, 10:51
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00tec

A little different, but has anyone built their own? I can get a good sized generator head, and was thinking of putting on a steel yard cart with a small engine, belt (or chain) driven with an alternator on it as well. Would make a nice generator/jump starter. Water cooled would be even better.

There are a few places on line that do some interesting things. You can make a stick welder from a lawn mower, generator from a lawn edger etc.
Just depends on how involved and how mechanically inclined you are.

http://theepicenter.com/tow02077.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Generator-...tor&id=4774983

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/528290..._solar_panels/

Regarding cheap vs, higher end. To me it means how much and the needs / use of an item you want to invest in. Having dealt with the Eu's this baby will surprise you between decibel output and performance, sure it is not cheap but that's your choice. I have a large 6500 unit that does most of the house less ac:( Due to size keeping a generator this size "quiet" is a lesson in mental masturbation. Can it be done, sure, but at what price money wise.
We've all tried to save a few dollars on projects and all said the same thing when completed. NEXT Time i'm just going to spend the money for one ready to go.
So decide if you want quiet and pay up front or mess around trying different kinds of sound proofing. It's your choice. me i don't care what it sounds like, as long as it works.
08-20-2012, 13:36
kittrich

Generators

From a guy who sells generators for a living...... Please do not buy a Chinese generator. Its like going to war with a cheap gun. Japanese generators ( Honda, Yamaha, Robin) are all very good. Chinese generators are all junk and will jack up your electronics. If it cost less than $1,000 it is more than likely a POS.
08-20-2012, 15:19
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittrich

From a guy who sells generators for a living...... Please do not buy a Chinese generator. Its like going to war with a cheap gun. Japanese generators ( Honda, Yamaha, Robin) are all very good. Chinese generators are all junk and will jack up your electronics. If it cost less than $1,000 it is more than likely a POS.

Group Buy from KITTRICH ????????
08-20-2012, 15:54
enthusiast

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Group Buy from KITTRICH ????????

+1
08-20-2012, 17:52
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Group Buy from KITTRICH ????????

+1
11-10-2012, 17:50
keylay31

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Group Buy from KITTRICH ????????

+1 I'd be interested in a 1kW one for now, more power in the future.
11-13-2012, 21:28
jmar254

Just bought a Westinghouse WH7000E $950 shipped and came with a 25' L1430 cord. Haven't fired it up yet.
11-13-2012, 22:08
keylay31

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmar254

Just bought a Westinghouse WH7000E $950 shipped and came with a 25' L1430 cord. Haven't fired it up yet.

That looks promising! I'd like to find one a little smaller. Let us know how you like it.
11-19-2012, 11:19
earplug

I'm considering a Natural Gas / Propane fueled generator. NG rarely gets cut off and propane stores easily and my local dispenser tells me they don't need electricity to fill my tanks. If were without electricity we might not be able to get fuel from a local gas station.