Educated vs. Smart

I just want some clarity, I want to gather opinions on this matter so I can see where people stand on this. The question is- Is education directly correlated to intelligence? Now, the quote I'm about to post does contain foul language and offensive ebonic terms- you've been warned:

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Originally Posted by Rennie Harris- CU Professor

The government is a system doesn't matter if your for Obama or not. Either way your gonna get fucked but if you chose Obama atleast you got to choose what condom you got fucked with. Those niggas be like hey imma get fucked with that ribbed condom or dat glow in the dark one and they be swingin it around like heeeyyyyyy nigga.

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This was posted by a "friend" (but she's rather stupid). I told her flat out that people who talk like this appear to be ignorant. She thought it was funny, but that just further shows where our future is headed. The instructor, according to her, has a PhD and teaches a class titled "Problems in Hip Hop." WHAT!?

This is my response and stance on higher education these days:
"it's commonly known that when people use swear words they appear less intelligent. When black people use the N word they also appear ignorant. Considering this person teaches a class titled as such just goes to show that they'll let any hack put whatever idiotic subject matter on the books. It also further proves what a failure our educational system is, and how the virtue of higher education has become nullified by subject matter that does little or nothing to further the value of a higher education. Furthermore, I didn't find it funny at all- I find it sad that a supposedly "educated" man would resort to speaking in a lower form of communication such as ebonics in a collegiate setting, it shows that they cannot take themselves, their subject, or education in general seriously. Whoever is paying for you college education is not getting their monies worth by you taking this class- pointless subjects and degrees such as this undermines our educational system and give me little hope for the future."

Your thoughts? Does anyone here have a child enrolled in college? Have you seen some of the classes they try to pass off as legitimate? Is it me, or has college become more and more of a joke these days? And finally, does being educated mean one is "smart"?

being educated has nothing to do with being smart imo. I am seeing more and more on job applications and such, "requirements: college degree or equivalent experience".

My brother went to Metro and he had an American history teacher that said the Russians were the real winners in WW2....

and my brother paid to be told that...............

I attend CU and am a socy and anth major. I assume that this course is for ethnic studies degree and is not a required course. None the less, I am sure one quote from a teacher does not qualify the course as useless or as a "free" A class. I believe being educated is directly related to being smart, they are interconnected. Experience and information allows one to be smart. Point of views and different ideologies are where people are becoming separated.

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Originally Posted by Chad4000

being educated has nothing to do with being smart imo. I am seeing more and more on job applications and such, "requirements: college degree or equivalent experience".

My brother went to Metro and he had an American history teacher that said the Russians were the real winners in WW2....

and my brother paid to be told that...............

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Did they mean in Europe? The prof would be nearly correct. 9 out of every 10 germans killed were killed by Russians. Either way I agree educated doesn't mean smart.

I know some serious idiots with graduate degrees. I also know some brilliant people with just a GED. Higher education is a boon to the intelligent, but I think a degree is primarily indicative of commitment to show up and do the work; it doesn't create intelligence in a vacuum.

That said, I don't have a degree. I was accepted to an engineering program at A&M while still in HS, but couldn't afford it so I chose the military instead. I've gained some professional certifications since and make a pretty good living by coupling those with experience and the ability to learn quickly on the job. I do sometimes regret not having that higher education though, as I feel it limits what I can lend to a conversation when others can bring up specific cases in history or known theories to support their point; things I may not necessarily have even heard of before.

Regarding the degradation of language by the allegedly educated, I think it's disgraceful. One should have enough dignity to master one's language. Expletives and slang used in lieu of real words are just indicative of one who lacks the intelligence to maintain a reasonable vocabulary. The best way to combat a lack of vocabulary is to pick up a book now and then. I used to listen to Dave Ramsey a lot when I was on the road for a different job, and he would say all the time, "Poor people have big TVs. Rich people have big libraries." I'd contest that rich people have big TVs too, but the point is well taken.

I was actually talking about this very subject last night with Mrs. Teufelhund, who has a Master's in human development and early childhood disorders. She was quoting a statistic that the number and variety of words heard at home by children in a poorer household is a fraction of that heard by children in more wealthy families. I think this is a very telling statistic.

No brainer here -- there is very little correlation between education and intelligence. ;)

One of the problems I have with today's higher education system is that many of the classes offered have dubious intellectual value. Unfortunately, there appears to be some kind of feedback mechanism that creates more and more ways to get "educated" while producing more and more unintelligent "educators".

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

No brainer here -- there is very little correlation between education and intelligence. ;)

One of the problems I have with today's higher education system is that many of the classes offered have dubious intellectual value. Unfortunately, there appears to be some kind of feedback mechanism that creates more and more ways to get "educated" while producing more and more unintelligent "educators".

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Liberal education. Accept it, or not.

My wife works for the University of Colorado. After observing some of her coworkers and supervisors, I can tell you without question there is no shortage of absolute idiots that can barely cross the street unassisted that hold multiple PhDs. These morons move from being professional students to professional "investigators" in the realm of Academia, because they would never be able to make a living if they actually had to DO something to earn a paycheck.

On the other hand, some of the most brilliant, sharpest people I know never went to college, or even graduated high school.

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Originally Posted by jackthewall81

I attend CU and am a socy and anth major. I assume that this course is for ethnic studies degree and is not a required course. None the less, I am sure one quote from a teacher does not qualify the course as useless or as a "free" A class. I believe being educated is directly related to being smart, they are interconnected. Experience and information allows one to be smart. Point of views and different ideologies are where people are becoming separated.

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Not just one quote, and Teufelhund hit the nail on the head- look at the title of the class! Obviously no self-respecting educator worth anything would dream up a class like that and present it as a legitimate subject, it's a freaking joke. Thankfully I don't attend and have no plans whatsoever to attend CU. My fear though is that our higher education is a joke and that whenever I have children I'll be forced to decide how they would best be educated without having to wade through BS classes to get to a real degree that will actually prove somewhat useful. I still don't understand why they even offer degrees in Philosophy- what kind of work are you going to do in that field? [LOL] Be the next Plato?[Tooth]

I see engineers every day that are nothing more than educated idiots.
They may have a mathematical formula for just about everything but they don't have enough "smart" to figure out how to change a flat ot jump-start a car.

Intelligence and smart are two entirely different concepts.

Question is, which one do you want in your back pocket?
Ideally there should be a balance between the two, intelligence is what it takes to design the contraption but it takes somebody with some smarts to build it and correct the engineers f-ups.

Intelligence may make you money but smart will keep you alive.

JMHO

Street-smart and book-smart are two vastly different things. Chances are, if you know someone with a PhD in molecular biology or the like, they have a certain amount of intelligence in that field by the time they finish their dissertation. However, it does not preclude them from being all but unable to function in day to day life.

Specialists aren't always good generalists....but it happens now and then.

I'm over the college years, both myself and kids ... sometimes kinda wish I had a degree because I might have made more money? Not sure about that, but the ol' trade school certificate has payed my bills adequately. Hate to say it but educating the (m)asses is no longer about education, maybe indoctrination ... don't know enough to say for sure, probably don't want to know. I do agree 'that kind of language' makes one appear stupid. No one has mentioned common sense or basic living skills - they don't teach that any longer!

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Did they mean in Europe? The prof would be nearly correct. 9 out of every 10 germans killed were killed by Russians. Either way I agree educated doesn't mean smart.

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World War 2 had more countries involved then just Germany. If he meant that, he didn't present it clearly enough that the class got it like that apparently. I dont think it's a stretch to say that even if the Russians killed more germans that Europe would still look differently had we not gotten involved over there and just kept it in the Pacific.

edit: didnt mean for that to sound harsh to flan, just as in the prof probably still doesnt know what he was talking about...

The federal loan program and general way of thinking (think of Obama's everyone should go to college statement) have created a scenario where everyone can go to college and those institutions don't really give two shits if you make it through or not. Pay us for three semesters and then drop out? Better than paying us for no semesters right? And once the student body gets to critical mass (more people that shouldn't be there than should, which it already has) then the quality of education takes a steep nosedive so they can keep those people paying more for longer and everyone suffers the idiots that actually make it through that never would have had the standards been maintained correctly.

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Originally Posted by TS12000

The federal loan program and general way of thinking (think of Obama's everyone should go to college statement) have created a scenario where everyone can go to college and those institutions don't really give two shits if you make it through or not. Pay us for three semesters and then drop out? Better than paying us for no semesters right? And once the student body gets to critical mass (more people that shouldn't be there than should, which it already has) then the quality of education takes a steep nosedive so they can keep those people paying more for longer and everyone suffers the idiots that actually make it through that never would have had the standards been maintained correctly.

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Yep- we're on the track to devalue a degree. I'm seeing it now, the average job won't hire people without at least an associates. The Bachelor's degree is becoming the new HS diploma. But what is that degree worth? With degrees in such ridiculous topics as there are now, it would seem to me like that old phrase about things coming in Cracker Jack boxes is becoming more and more true.

Thank God for the back button.

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Originally Posted by Chad4000

World War 2 had more countries involved then just Germany. If he meant that, he didn't present it clearly enough that the class got it like that apparently. I dont think it's a stretch to say that even if the Russians killed more germans that Europe would still look differently had we not gotten involved over there and just kept it in the Pacific.

edit: didnt mean for that to sound harsh to flan, just as in the prof probably still doesnt know what he was talking about...

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Agree with you there!

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Yep- we're on the track to devalue a degree. I'm seeing it now, the average job won't hire people without at least an associates. The Bachelor's degree is becoming the new HS diploma. But what is that degree worth? With degrees in such ridiculous topics as there are now, it would seem to me like that old phrase about things coming in Cracker Jack boxes is becoming more and more true.

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What ridiculous degrees do you speak of?

Chicano Studies is one off the top of my head that I know is offered at Metro. I'm not saying there isn't value in that knowledge but come on wtf are you gonna do with that degree? Teach those courses and write books about it (or make coffee at Starbucks). One hand washing the other.

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Originally Posted by jackthewall81

What ridiculous degrees do you speak of?

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Some are older- but Art History, Latin, Dance, Parapsychology, Ufology, Surf Studies, and like I said before- Philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Some are older- but Art History, Latin, Dance, Parapsychology, Ufology, Surf Studies, and like I said before- Philosophy.

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For ragging on CU so much, i believe they only offer philosophy and art history. So CU is a good school in your opinion?

If i have to do a basket weaving, dead artist of the 15th century to obtain those extra credits for a degree, i'm taking them.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Some are older- but Art History, Latin, Dance, Parapsychology, Ufology, Surf Studies, and like I said before- Philosophy.

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What people get a degree in and what they do later for a living aren't always the same thing. Some people value education, others less so. Sure, we can ditch art history, philosophy, latin, and most anything other than what specifically suits you. However, with the U.S. slipping in international rankings when it comes to education & test scores, roughly how far do you want to slide down that ladder?

Whether a person is smart and/or intelligent depends greatly on their gifts and ambition to apply them.

Education in all things is knowledge. Knowledge is gained and applied regardless of institutional knowledge, practical knowledge, or knowledge passed down from your parents. The purpose of formal higher education is based on gathering knowledge and learning how to apply that knowledge in your field of study. Some people work at it and some people don’t; I have met brilliant well rounded people and idiots as well. Some knowledge may seem ridiculous to some but brilliant to others. I have a real problem with undergraduate work when some institutions and professors teach students what to think instead of how to think.

Yes, a lot of people may be really knowledgeable about one thing and really ignorant about something else. I am really really close to finishing my doctorate; the one thing about all the years of education that really helps me…I can learn and apply knowledge quickly and efficiently. One thing that sets me apart from academia, I completed my masters and worked on my doctorate from the professional world and not in an institutional lab. Ultimately, education opened doors for me that otherwise would have been closed.

Being smart has absolutely nothing to do with being educated...Don't even get me started on IQs. I have a bunch of college education, certifications, licensed as a Profesional Engineer, got very high scores on ACTs, got accepted into very good schools...blah, blah, blah. I know engineers with a lot more schooling than I have who can't figure out anything without looking in a book. In fact, I beleive once you move beyond the bachelors degree in most fields, the work becomes offset from reality and becomes a study in the theoretical.

I don't have a PhD in psychology, but I know that if you respect, love and serve other people, your life will be better and you probably won't end up in jail...ain't rocket science. Most of psychology revolves around how to maintain selfish perspective without pissing off everyone around you. Better solution...don't be selfish!

When it comes to engineering, the powers that be want to add on 30 graduate level hours (or a Masters) to be eligible to take the PE exam. 30 more hours won't make better engineers...getting off the computers and into factories while IN shool will make better engineers. Here is a white paper to which I responded, in fact my response is posted at the bottom: http://alethianeng.com/Alethian_Webp...r_to_NSPE.html

ONLY academics think more education is the solution to everything.

On the original post..."smart" people respect others because they have figured out that, even if selfish, it is what gets you by and makes things easier. People who speak like the original quote have lost respect for themselves and therefore lack respect for their fellow man. As a person loses more and more repsect, their values, adherance to laws, and humanity fade and they become more and more like an animal...and chaos is not far behind. Many in our educational system want this devaluation to proceed. I guess it all makes sense based on "Entropy" but it does not mean I have to like it.

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

Being smart has absolutely nothing to do with being educated...Don't even get me started on IQs. I have a bunch of college education, certifications, licensed as a Profesional Engineer, got very high scores on ACTs, got accepted into very good schools...blah, blah, blah. I know engineers with a lot more schooling than I have who can't figure out anything without looking in a book. In fact, I beleive once you move beyond the bachelors degree in most fields, the work becomes offset from reality and becomes a study in the theoretical.

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Some of the academic garbage I have to read is truly mind numbing. I agree with a lot of what you said except being educated. That said, education can be achieved in many ways without ever entering a college, but I doubt you could do the things you do without being educated...you had to learn it.

My Grandfather never even went to high school. He was probably the "smartest" person I have ever known.

MED, maybe we should define "Education" and "smart"...

I say educating is learning about a subject. Smart is being able to learn AND then the application of that knowledge. Or in another sense, education makes you "book smart" while doing makes you "application smart".

Some funnies...

Consider how smart the average person is...now realize that half of the people are dumber.

Common sense is nmot very common anymore.

Technology has preserved those for whom life would have otherwise been harsh, or fatal much sooner.

I wish that I were educated and smart enough to figure out how to NOT see any more Ronin posts.

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

MED, maybe we should define "Education" and "smart"...

I say educating is learning about a subject. Smart is being able to learn AND then the application of that knowledge. Or in another sense, education makes you "book smart" while doing makes you "application smart".

Some funnies...

Consider how smart the average person is...now realize that half of the people are dumber.

Common sense is nmot very common anymore.

Technology has preserved those for whom life would have otherwise been harsh, or fatal much sooner.

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KaChing. [Beer]

I know "smart" well educated people who wear slip on shoes because they cannot tie lace shoes w/out a diagram, seriously.
Having worked in a research facility where DR was the norm, flushing a toilet, changing a flat tire, simple shit, not a clue. Forget about doing manual labor.

My late, very close friend, best man was one of these. Tell him you have 1/2 doz astronauts flying to the moon. He'd design the craft, tell you how much cargo could be taken, fuel consumption etc.
One night he drives off the pier in to the bay. How the hell you do that?? It was dark and the road ended.. never knew he was on a wooded pier, just driving without a care in the world.
Smart exceptionally, Common Sense, not a lick.

I'll just count myself as lucky enough to have both [Tooth] [Coffee]

And I am quite proud of how humble I am too!

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Originally Posted by jim

KaChing. [Beer]

I know "smart" well educated people who wear slip on shoes because they cannot tie lace shoes w/out a diagram, seriously.

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Seriously? I thought tying your shoes was among one of the first things you learn in life! I have a couple of pairs of shoes that are "slip on" (technically- tied laces but loose enough to slip on) but that's just because I'm lazy. [Coffee]

Educated vs smart is a non-sequitor.

Education = formalized instruction on a subject, ie lots of knowledge crammed into a smaller space of time (a "good" education will also teach how to use that knowledge, to a degree... a lesser one will do that less well)

Smart/intelligent = mentally nimble; effective at acquiring, applying and extrapolating on knowledge.


Bottom line is neither is "best". People all across the spectrum are necessary to society....

We wouldn't be in space without highly educated people, (some with dubious social abilities) but not everybody needs to fit that mold.

It is becoming clear that modern industrial jobs will be leaning more and more towards people with both an education and smarts... it's just the nature of the work they will be doing.

It's good to be smart. If you are smart, you know that knowing more is better...

Also. The teacher was right about the Russia & WW2. Post WW2... the USA went home with debt and increased responsibilities in Europe & Asia. Great Britain & France began rebuilding their bombed out nations. Russia became the USSR by occupying Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, part of Germany, and more. They also got away with atrocities in large part because we (the rest of the Allies) weren't willing to "provoke that bear". A little later we realized the magnitude of the "problem" we had allied ourselves with.

There's no question the USA played a large role in defeating Germany, but the USSR was holding the best hand at the table when the dust settled.

Course, 40+ years later, they had squandered that hand, but that's another story.