I think it is. Agree or disagree?
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I think it is. Agree or disagree?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastMan
You live in Woodland Park? Try living in Denver! hahahaha why would you need to bug out anyway?
Don't, won't. It's a hypothetical. Perhaps the wrong term? I'm talking about a place to retreat to, or even move to before the SHTF, and set up and live/survive for an extended period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
Then most of Colorado is less than ideal. Someplace with more water and a less hostile environment would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by FastMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
That limits your choices to well.......not much. Unless you have a small plane to fly you there when things get ugly. I know a few areas with plenty of potable water, down side is getting to them in under 24 hours, intact. The winters are a tad harsh, short growing season and very desolate. Isolation can play mean tricks to ones psyche.
California is west. just saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by FastMan
Alot of firepower in and around Colorado Springs. Prime target for nuclear attack too. If you are able, you can Rambo it in the mountains. Lot of abandoned small mine adits to live in. I go out and purposely find places I can bug out to and live underground. I kinda like what working mines have, lots of fuel and explosives. Most people don't have the skills to provide themselves with food entirely from hunting, fishing and foraging plants. If things are bad and you suddenly arrive from evacuating Miami, it's gonna be tough for you. If you live here and know survival skills, are already equipped and have some preplanned places to go you have a better chance than say some schmuck living in LA or NYC who shows up with a suitcase...
To me South Eastern Kansas/North Eastern Oklahoma would be a more ideal place to Bug out to then Colorado. More water and better growing season in SEK/NEO, also more trees and foliage cover for hiding and escape and evasion if needed.
I got a creepy feeling today. Even a mild economic depression, is going to be really really really bad. Too much diversity, low moral standards, etc. We would turn into animals pretty quick, a few weeks at most. Sparse resources may mean people leave the area also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocktot
Outside those of us staying put. The majority of people would drift from one metro area to the other, expecting some .gov entity to take care of them. How many people can you count in your area that have no plans for a power loss? Multiple that by X and they will be the scavengers of tomorrow. Armed, perhaps, mob mentality, most definitely.
The question you need to ask yourself is this.
IF it became that bad. CAN I TAKE ANOTHER PERSONS LIFE ?? Not maybe but Can I do this NOW? Add children in to the equation because that is what the have not's OR dislocated people will be using to sway and or gain entry in to the area that has what they do not.
That question and your answer, while not something i want to see responded to here. Is one you must seriously ask, think and talk about with loved ones and others of your group. Talk, discuss, pray what ever BUT Realize This Scenario may very well happen. Myself who knows.?
AGAIN that question should be thought about and not discussed in any forum.
It's a good question, Jim. Same one they suggest you ask yourself when you take the CCW training. When the time comes, and for me it's something I've yet to encounter, I imagine you really have to have it together. You can't blink when it comes time to react, yet at the same time you can't and shouldn't over react. Neutralize the situation if possible, but don't get caught napping and let them get the draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
Also imagine some encounters would be blatantly obvious what to do, the attack would be on, while others might be more coy to begin. How to handle it?
I'm a jock, lots of sports competition in my life. A majorly important part of that was something called visualization. You mentally rehearse your performance before you actually compete, visualizing in your mind every movement you will be making in great detail, to the extent it almost feels like you're actually doing it for real. I can see the same exercise being valuable with this.
Read one second after yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigun1962
No, I'll have a look for it. Amazon?
Yep, it's at amazon. Looks like a moving read. Ordered it. Thanks, bigun
do the following books in order, then re-evaluate your situation:
patriots; a survival guide
survivors
both books by Rawles
then read One second after...
Out of the 3 your should figure out what you need. I'm not heading west, that's for damn sure. Heading east, well read One Second After...
Head North? Good luck getting through Cheyenne, heading south, good luck getting through Csprings or Pueblo....
My plan, read more, learn find property that's listed in Patriots and move there asap...
It is avail. on audiobook, btw. This made it a lot easier for me with my schedule. The narrator is good, not great. But still entertaining, informative, and absolutely chilling.
I would rather die in Colorado than live in Kansas or Oklahoma. Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by colocowboy01
Buckshot, thanks. Just so you're aware, checking on amazon I see that Rawles has a new book being released Sept 25th, called "Founders, a novel of the coming collapse". Can be pre-ordered now at Amazon.
I hear ya. There was a reason when I came west I didn't stop till I hit the Springs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfuego
I've joked with friends about the first settlers in Kansas. How the only reason they likely stopped and took root was because the wife was having a fit about being sick of sitting in that frigging bumpy wagon, and refused to travel one more foot. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastMan
nah, they stopped so they could rob the indians of their feminine products...After all buffalo tail is still buffalo tail!
Kansas, as far as what I've seen from pheasant hunting is a no go, not enough water...Nebraska/Wyoming stands a better chance, especially Wyoming because of the population base. Remember that you'll need appx 800 mile capability on your vehicle to reach low numbers of 2 leg'd varmint cong.
Forgot to mention some areas of south dakota are nice...remember population density, you'll find that out real quick in one second after, and Survivors...
I'd say the area I'm in is good for bugging out. Lowes is right by my apartment so easy access to some building supplies (nails, screws, etc) Jax and Sportsman aren't fair either to raid for some gear/ammo. After that I'm heading west into the foothills and gradually into the mountains once I have enough non perishable food stashed away. I'd say the biggest threat in Loveland would be refugee's from Fort Collins, or the nutter skin heads here in Loveland lol.
Greeley is a prime target for livestock is you got to feed a large group.
With what I'm armed with the foothills/mountains will best suit me because I have firearms generally suited for long range.
Doesn't mean anything if it cannot go through a 12" diameter tree. Cause that's what the smart ones returning fire, will be using as cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggysrun
The "threat" can and will come from anywhere. Mob mentality will be the driving force of the people. Ft Fun clashes with loveland, wellington, anywhere the mob goes it absorbs the weaker of the 2 sides, festers and grows.
Throw in some charismatic person and the trouble / threat factor grows, perhaps very fast. There is no place here, or anywhere, determined people who have not given up the will to live might appear.
Jax, lowes 1st place the mob will be en mass. Anywhere there is the hope for tool to survive the people will go. Hell there will be people who have no clue that will be there too. Why? because that's where the mob is going.
After you read 1 second after (if you haven't already) read Lights Out.
I agree the mobs will be bad. I've done enough hiking in the foothills to spot out some temporary geocache spots in case things fall apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
Obviously if something like an EMP went off over night while I was sleeping that wouldn't really work out for me but if I had a feeling stuff was heading downhill in a few weeks I'd take advantage of a geocache. I mean think about it, people can only carry so much ammo and supplies with them at a time. If you can spread those supplies in geocaches or burried on a path to your general area you'll be evacuating you'll be better off.
I'd rely on a vehicle to get to a certain point, either I run out of gas or room on the road or just not safe to drive and rely more on walking on foot or bicycle.
something like this might help, i'm gonna look around!
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Wild.../dp/0936699108
SE Kansas is not like western Kansas :) Plenty of water, game etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshotbarlow
Sure, but SE Kansas is a 10+ hour highway drive from Colorado Springs if the roads are clear... Assuming that the roads will be clear through several major cities and that you can take the highway the whole way at posted speed limits sounds a little silly, if you're trying to get out of dodge, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by William
i don't get the hate of colorado for bugging out. in my opinion its better than almost anywhere in the country for many reasons. first, finding drinkable, right out of the stream, water is not difficult. anyone who has spent reasonable amount of time in the backcountry knows that. you have to get to higher elevations sure but so what. also, all we have to worry about in colorado is giardia, which while unpleasant it won't kill you so long as you can stay hydrated. also, its not like every time you drink from a stream that has giardia in it, you will get giardia. finally, there is a simply solution, boil the water.
second, you can find some incredibly difficult to traverse, isolated areas. if you spend a few days packing stuff in and out you can get to areas that are 100% unable to be reached by vehicle and will take a lot of effort to get to on foot. fortifying such an area would not be difficult and with a few people it would be fairly easy to defend.
people talk about the winters but in my opinion they are a good thing. who the F is going to come try to walk around in the back country to find some random small group of people in the middle of winter? you can hunker down during the winter in the mountains and you shouldn't be bothered by anyone. game is plentiful during that time of year. our mountains are nice in that there are few predators or dangers but many types of game. one elk or even a good sized deer could feed you for quite some time. rabbits can be found readily as can birds, fish, etc. it wouldn't be that difficult to find food.
as for the growing season, sure its short. you couldn't rely on planting seeds in the ground, you would need to plan ahead and have some potted supplies to grow some various plants. the nice thing is that while the soil isn't great the mountains get plenty of sunshine and water can be easily found. you can grow plants fairly easily if you really put in the effort. now for during the winter, besides meat, yes you are going to need to plan ahead. you will need some nonperishible types of foods and some canned/freeze dried stuff. again, to survive up there over a year you can't expect to just slap a few things on your back and go for it, you will have to prepare a bit and make several trips from your vehicle. but come on, whats a few days of packing stuff to a site for a year or more of security?
now as for the cold. look, you can't make some make shift shelter and survive, i agree. heres how i would do it. i have a cabelas bighorn tent. its 12x12, extremely durable including in winds, waterproof, and thick enough that its actually pretty warm. it weighs 70 lbs. it has a stove jack and i have a four dog stove that can heat a 12x12 area from -30 degrees to a reasonable 50 degrees and fires last quite a while. although pine is not ideal as a burning wood, there is plenty of it. during the days (i know because i have camped in it in the winter) the sun actually makes it pretty dang toasty in there. the stove also provides a surface to cook on. i have a vestibule for it that allows you to put all your wood and everything inside from the elements. to carry this, i have an eberlestock skycrane. if you take it apart you can put almost anything in there and strap it all together. carrying the 70 lbs is not bad, ive tested it. if its tiring, take the poles out and the tent then weighs around 35 lbs and the poles 35 lbs, so two people can't split it. the stove is fairly heavy but two people could very easily carry it up a trail. this shelter will be all youll need in the summer and winter, but of course you can use natural elements to protect it even more, such as building a wooden stacked wall around it to help insulate it and such.
again, if you are up there in the winter you are probably safe from people. snow will provide plenty of water and while food won't be cake, if you spend most of your days foraging and hunting for it, youll survive, particularly if you came prepared with some non perishable foods.
you could find a nicer place in the country, sure. but the point is, so will other people. you need to be in a semi difficult place to survive where preparedness are necessary. otherwise a whole bunch of other people will sooner or later move to place you are at.
You do realize that the majority will die from disease.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
I have no hate for CO for bugging out. We would not have relocated here if that was the case.
All well and good, providing you are physically able to hump around the mtns.
If you think no one will be where you plan on settling down, think again. Desperate times breed desperate people. You assume there will be plentiful game, why is that, because no one else will venture to your 'safe" area? I wager there are an easy 100 people in CO if not 10 times that who say the same thing. Where i'm going no one else would even think of going. been there, done that.
Sometimes, the less then hospitable places are the places you want to go to. When deer are pressured, where do they flee to? Not to a place thats cozy like a Hilton. Usually the thickest, nastiest places, that alone will deter people. Go high in altitude in the warm months, and go lower in the cooler months. Most people after a short bit will lose their drive and look for something easier.
I came from Louisiana. Population density is one thing, but the population density of "have nots" is another. Every small town has projects. The town I grew up in had a population of 2000, and had projects that you didn't want to be caught in after dark. Hell we called and reported someone selling drugs and the dispatch said "oh the corner of xxx and xxxx, they're always doing that there" No, they don't do anything about it. The land is flat, you're always in close proximity to trees or in danger of flooding, or of a hurricane, or having a crackhead break into your shed and steal your tools. And the good neighborhood is within 3 miles of shanty town.
The growing season is great down there, you can get 2 crops or more of vegetables. Water is only a problem when there's too much. The soil is fertile....but if you don't cut your grass it won't be long before you can't see past your doorstep.
Speaking of water, you can't dig in or you'll float out.
Disease can spread rapidly through humans and livestock via abundant water, and abundant insects
AC isn't just a luxury, older people down there die without it.
On the coast you can get all the food you need from the water and the super fertile land. And it can all be taken from you by a good storm.
Northern LA has an even higher concentration of "have nots"
Here you can drive several miles without even seeing a driveway. Terrain relief allows me to see cars coming from a mile away. Yes water can be a problem, but it can be planned for. Yes cold can be a problem, but you can build a fire. You can use solar heating panels. Population density is MUCH better, and population density of Have nots is exponentially better than that.
because there is a lot of game in colorado, you just have to know where to look. the vast majority, a good 90%, of people have absolutely no ability to hunt or survive in the mountains. particularly in the winter. getting away from people would not be difficult at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
Heck,It's a whole lot better here than out east in Bloomberg central-NY.
To get anywhere decent you have to go 4 or 5 hrs and that's still no guarentee the mobs wont end up there.
Here you have the mountains to weed the weak out and not some speedbumps like NY.
Im betting it would be damn thin within weeks. Talk to some of the old timers who survived the great depression.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
My Grandfather told me that there was a time if someone found a deer track, people would come from miles to see it. He wasnt kidding.
Everyone & their brother will be beating the woods for food. Think it gets crowded [depending where you hunt] now, just wait. Unless you are going to pull a Jeremiah Johnson gl.
I have a spouse and a few others in the neighborhood i am committed to. Neighbor helping like minded neighbor.
Better defense in numbers, up to a point. There are a few places we have been offered to BO to, however being on the road after week 1 will not be pretty. Then again assessing the full extent of a meltdown w/out an eye in the sky is not a good option either. . I nor the spouse is humping to the hills with every other swinging dick. I'm standing my ground, at my age if there was a SHTF scenario better to die on my feet than live on my knees. YMMV of course.
Test time. Do a poll of the neighborhood, friends, who don't think like you do, john or jane q public. Ask them, if there was an emergency and they needed to move NOW, where would they go. I believe 60 % easy will say
"The Mountains? "
Traffic on a weekend sux going there now. You don't feel it will become one cluster if SHTF?
If SHTF, I'm going to need to learn to love Canada Geese, because I'll probably survive off of them for a while. And raccoons and squirrels.
Squirrel is better than Possum. Never had Raccoon. [Flower]Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
I've heard you can starve to death eating squirrels because they don't have enough nutritional value. I have no idea if that is true though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrymrc
You're in luck, we have 1 maybe 2 racoons who still don't get the hint. Our dog does not like you, squirrels or other small game animals using the yard as a short cut. You cut through it sooner or later you will get caught, hopefully for vet bills, you'll wise up.