How long does it take the 'Gov' to find out all the posters on prep sites, trace those IP's?
I don't think they will let it just crash. They will just keep dragging it out. But sometimes I'm wrong.
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How long does it take the 'Gov' to find out all the posters on prep sites, trace those IP's?
I don't think they will let it just crash. They will just keep dragging it out. But sometimes I'm wrong.
I dont think it will matter when it gets to that point.
The'll have other things to worry about instead of going after the net.
I'm sure they have a list compiled,but what would they use it for?? Actualy its when?
IP's are like a holes-everybody has one and if their going after everybody theres worse stuff to worry about...
What benefit would they gain? Enough food for a family of four for a year will feed 10,000 people for how long?
Find? "They" already know who we are, it's the unknown factor that's a game changer
about 7 seconds, dependent on the amount of ammo said prepper is prepared to expend to avoid having their shit re-distributed. [M2]Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
In the same scenario in other countries, it's after the Gov nationalized food warehouses, distribution center, and that's after they nationalized farms and food co-ops.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocktot
Google "willing-buyer-willing-seller" policy. Scary turn of event.
PS in most scenarios, the big GOV did not have to come after you either, by then, hyper inflation set in and neighbor turns against neighbor. The local LE then will confiscate your food/asset in the name of peace.
You won't have to concern yourself about the federal government.
Your immediate neighbors will handle redistribution of your goods just fine all by their lonesome. They'll send their children to prey on your sympathy and if you refuse they'll try to guilt you, and if you still refuse they'll rush you.
Are you prepared for that? Are you ready to deal with the emotions and all that other shit that follows when you hurt someone you know?
All your data will be stored here. When they say it won't be used against U.S. persons, I laugh. If you don't want it to be known by them, don't use electronics to communicate it... .gov breaks it own laws all the time. Aren't you happy we are free?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
Get with the "Program"...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/op...gram.html?_r=0
They will be going off of Form 4473 lists first.
Kind of scaryQuote:
Originally Posted by BushMasterBoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by netsecsys
Going off Form 4473 lists for...?
registered firearm ownersQuote:
Originally Posted by kidicarus13
I understand but what are they going to go off any lists for? For what reason? I guess I should direct that at the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by netsecsys
This is a fact. My own personality has no sympathy. I do have a lot of empathy- I can understand why you are in the situation you are in, but believe me, I am not going to help you at my own or my families expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
The better question is what are you mentally prepared to do to survive. Personally I have a strong moral flexibility. Not only will I defend me and mine, I will take what is necessary if the choice is my families survival.
The data thing is a bit scary, but its not news in itself. What is news is they published it, which is even a little scarier.
I agree, in the situation we're talking about I'm not inclined to help someone else to my own detriment. However, I'd be inclined to join forces with like-minded souls. I know my place too, I'm single and expendable, I'll take the hit if it means the survival of a good family.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker460
I don't care about the data thing. The government is made up of people and and good number those people will want to take care of their own families. They're not going to put themselves in harms way to chase down some "enemy of the state" when their own families are threatened with starvation.
THERE are NO Registered FIREARM owners in CO, enough of that shit. The 4473 only tells the .gov who you are and long gun, hand gun, other. NOTHING MORE, no serial number, mfg, semi, pump etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by netsecsys
Only NFA tax stamp folk have some form of registration.
I sure would not want the government job of going to gun owner homes to take their food and supplies
I would love to believe that all of the paper work is destroyed after a check and that they only use my info to see if I am bad or good, and don't keep the info on file but I think that is a bit naieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
There is a reason it is on the form, not just for grins me thinks.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
top of page 3, questions 26-30.
26-manufacturer or importer
27-model
28-serial number
29-type (pistol, shotgun, rifle)
30-caliber or gauge
My opinion for whats it's worth is, there are many other people they will be after long before they come looking for me and other people who have made "normal" purchases on a 4473.
I figure the full auto,SBR,SBS, supressor guys will be on the top of the "go visit them first" list, then possibly the ccw lists then go through and check up on all the 4473 forms.
With this being still somewhat of a free state allowing FTF private party sales a lot of the guns bought on 4473 will no longer be in the possesion of those individuals.
Also I would hope that the people of this country would stand up and fight against that type of collecting of firearms, but sadly as most of us know it won't likely go down that way.
As for the data collection, yup we are all in a system somewhere, scary to think.
For me I think all guns are evil and after my boat accident last year where I lost all mine, I decided I didn't want to buy more I just donated the insurance claim to peta and the sierra club.[Beer]
oh please, come on people, think about this for a minute. you really think if things get that bad the government is going to the organizational ability and time to go door to door to gun owners homes to confiscate their arms? give me a break. the amount of man power would be unbelievable, plus as stated those that work for the government have families too to care for. if things were THAT bad theyd leave the force and go home to take care of their own. the only possible time this sort of thing would happen EVER is if everything in the country is mostly normal and the government has just taken enough power to do such a thing without the populace being outraged. which also isn't likely. besides, everyone has had at least one boating accident in their lives.
Wrong choice of words on my part. I should have stated: records of firearms purchses by individuals which include your address and firearm specifics. I was under the impression that info that the FFL records are retained for 5 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
Does anyone really believe these ass hats could get this done? They can't do anything else. As far as the neighbors go, just kill them, feed them to the dogs, burn down their homes and capitalize their property for farming. It may not be politically correct but it is an effective and usable strategy.
Good in theory but there was that huge boating accident with most of the COAR15 members. Lots of guns unaccounted for.Quote:
Originally Posted by netsecsys
I need to buy the guy that came up with that Line a beer.
Yes that tragic boating incident... I will never forget it...
Too many of us; too few of them (Good luck with that!).
If you are a sheep, then expect to be preyed upon. If you are wolf, you will be left alone (except by other wolves of course).
You obviously do not understand a 4473 call in procedure.Quote:
Originally Posted by brianut
They ask for name, DOB, Soc if given, Address, DL #
LONG GUN, HAND GUN OTHER.
NO SERIAL NUMBER, MAKE MODEL OR MFG INFO IS EVER ASKED.
YES That info is there to validate sale and transfer of firearm from ffl - purchaser. YES The info is on the 4473 AND YES the feds can AUDIT a FFL and review the 4473's.
UNTIL THE TIME AN AUDIT or other issues where they need to access 447'3 no one out side the ffl ever sees said info.
I am sure i left 1 item off the CBI info list however i do not have a 4473 in front of me, well not as of this morning:)
REGARDING NFA ITEMS To date not 1 ATF agent has contacted me (other than for approval) To see where i store my NFA items. Or is there anyone i know with NFA items (i know a few) who have ever been contacted either.
The .gov will be too busy doing damage control and shoring up what ever is left of the USA to be bothered with your guns. Once the dust settles who knows, providing DC W.VA and other .gov clusters, are still standing.
I sure hope you're not my neighbor.Quote:
Originally Posted by CO303
I was actually worried more about this guy -Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawin
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker460
Nah, I think if you're honest with yourself, you'd have the same mindset he (aggressively) stated. I'm sure you would be more willing to go to drastic measures to ensure the lives and safety of your family, than you're readily willing to admit. Hell you already are. You own GUNS! OMG WTF. [ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by jhood001
His position is that of the majority of the world, which is the whole reason why civil unrest is of concern to folks.
This is not going to be 'random', this would be an in-place objective. That's why I think its more a long term issue. I don't think the economy collapses like 1929. Too dangerous for the power brokers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
From what I hear if you get caught with a DUI or ganji, they can/will be pulling your firearms. Didn't see that here though.
Mental health... It has happened many times. They declared you are unstable then you must give up your arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocktot
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/8100.php
I dont think my mindset is that of the majority of the world to be honest. My personal observation is that most people want to be told what to do and have someone else make sure they are kept safe and secure. My Mindset is a little opposite of that, in that I believe my first obligation is to my family, then somewhere far down the list is society.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawin
While I agree with your underlying point that most people in society are "sheep", (ie. they want to be led, protected, represented, don't see what's happening around them, etc.) I am definitely opposite your opinion that they want to be told what they can and cannot do. It might be trending that way with all of the entitlement programs and such, but the America I love and support is full of people who want their freedom. Not to be told they can and cannot do something.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker460
That being said, I'm confident most folks would agree that individual responsibility begins with one's own actions, followed closely by the obligation to one's family... the "majority" of people, sheep or not, are going to default to protecting themselves and their families in an emergency situation. That's the "majority" I am referring to.
Agree with that....Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawin
Lots of guys are thinking this way about SHTF. Few are honest enough to say it. On another forum a poster posted . "If I have a rifle I dont have to have everything I need to survive, I just need to know who has it, just sayin". I think there are many out there like this. If it goes up they plan on taking what they need. I think some of them are well equipped and train hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by CO303
No doubt about it. In fact, I am certain there are gangs that will expand their territories in a heart beat with this mantra. It's just another reason to be as rural as possible, and absolutely as incognito as possible. There's no reason to make it well known that you're a prepper or have any degree or provisions stocked away, but lots of reasons not to.Quote:
Originally Posted by xring
I think you're taking my comments out of context. That is probably my my fault for not making myself clear. I live in Denver. Most of my neighbors are the typical urban liberal type. If we move to SHTF, most of them will try to do for themselves until they can't, then they'll work with others to get what they need. When they cant get what they need they'll try to take what they need.Quote:
Originally Posted by xring
When this enhanced level of redistribution starts, I will use any means necessary to protect and defend my family. My mindset is not well suited to being a raider however, there's nothing in my thinking that would allow me to accept the role of victim either. If I'm hit, I'll hit back harder and when they're down I'll keep hitting. Being my neighbor isn't the problem. Being my neighbor and thinking you can rob and harm my family is a problem. If I know I can trust you and work with you, I'm the best neighbor you could have. If I don't trust you, we're better off keeping our distances.
If things get bad enough we'll all have plenty to answer for. Let's hope the things we fear don't come to pass.
I used your comments to comment on others intention, I realize your comments were philisophical in nature so I should not have used your post in that manner. Please excuse me. My post concerned others intentions not yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by CO303
Amen to thatQuote:
Originally Posted by CO303
X-ring, We're good. No worries in discussion. I don't think .gov is our biggest problem. I fact, I think .gov will quickly be so overwhelmed it may be years before we hear from them again. My concern is the guy who was willing to do anything to survive while the system is running, regardless of the impact on others. What is he willing to do when there aren't any rules or rules are a matter of moral values? The decisions become harder when the issue isn't just making him leave and becomes ensuring he doesn't come back.
I lived in a town that flooded. Rivers on the east and west. Bridge under 2 feet of water on the north and highway under water on the south. A school bus was being run across the bridge every hour so you could get out if you wanted. the 7-11 and safeway sold completly out in 24 hours . everything. bare shelves. people were buying condiments and pickles just to be able to buy somthing.
People were indignent. It was their right to buy stuff. There had to be food in the stores. "the goverment has to do somthing". It was their right to have food. I saw the surlyness.
It was a real eye opener that people will justify and do what they want when a system breaks down and this was no SHTF just a couple of empty stores.
During the fires this year I saw people driving on to private property looking to "borrow" horse trailers without permission. Im sympathetic Id do what Id have to for my animals. Once again people will do what they want when the system breaks down. The change in ethics and actions happened within 24 hours in both instances and they were not shtf by any means. What happens to peoples ethics and actions if it goes up and the duration is weeks or months?