.308 or .338?

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10-10-2012, 22:35
ray1970

.308 or .338?

Not sure if this is the proper place for this question but not sure where else to post it.

So, I have a little project to keep me amused over the winter months. When this project is complete it will primarily be used for shooting steel from 200 to 500 meters. There is a small possibility I might take it out to 1000 yards once or twice.

Anyhow, I have narrowed my choice of calibers down to 7.62x51 (.308 Win.) or .338 Federal. I won't be buying any factory ammunition for this rifle so the cost difference between the two when loading my own is minimal and won't factor into my decision. The rifle is also just going to be a range toy so being able to find ammo in a SHTF scenario is not important to me either. I'm really leaning towards the .338 just because not everyone has one and I like the thought of slinging a 200 grain bullet down range at about 2600 fps.

Which caliber should I go with and why?

Thoughts?
10-10-2012, 22:48
Delfuego

.308

308 is great for 200-500y and good to 1000y.
338 is good for really long range 1k-2k.

338 is not cheap (even brass) and has a very big kick.
308 is inexpensive and easy to find.

I would only get into 338 if I am planning on shooting really, really far. I wouldn't even want to shoot it under 800y, that and I am a wimp with recoil.
I just went from .308 to .260 for better ballistics with less recoil, but limited ammo choices.
I think 223 works just fine at 200-600y.
Ever look at 300 WinMag?

Just my $.02 [Beer]
10-10-2012, 22:54
Goodburbon

.308 kicks less. You can shoot longer comfortably. Your stated use is well within .308 capabilities.
.338 has more capability for distance built in, and a cool factor. You could just build heavy and install a good brake.

Which platform you plan on building?
10-10-2012, 23:06
BPTactical

Shoot the cheap Ray.
How many of us can actually justify the expense of .338?
How many of us have a tangible need for it?

Besides, think of the Cheetos you will have to forego.[Flower]
10-10-2012, 23:11
ray1970

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delfuego

308 is great for 200-500y and good to 1000y.
338 is good for really long range 1k-2k.

338 is not cheap (even brass) and has a very big kick.
308 is inexpensive and easy to find.

I would only get into 338 if I am planning on shooting really, really far. I wouldn't even want to shoot it under 800y, that and I am a wimp with recoil.
I just went from .308 to .260 for better ballistics with less recoil, but limited ammo choices.
I think 223 works just fine at 200-600y.
Ever look at 300 WinMag?

Just my $.02 [Beer]

I believe you are thinking of the wrong .338. The .338 Federal is basically just a .308 case necked up to take the larger bullets. It is not a magnum cartridge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodburbon

Which platform you plan on building?

Guess I should have been a bit less vague. I'm building on the AR-10 platform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPTactical

Shoot the cheap Ray.
How many of us can actually justify the expense of .338?
How many of us have a tangible need for it?

Besides, think of the Cheetos you will have to forego.[Flower]

I don't think the cost difference between the two would be that much when I'm loading my own.

Thank you all for the thoughts and opinions. [Beer]
10-11-2012, 00:54
islandermyk

.338 Federal is a bigger and heavier round...

... the .308 will out perform it at longer distances.. but i could be wrong[Beer]
10-11-2012, 01:18
TriggerHappy

In a SHTF scenario, .308 will be much easier to find. IMHO

I prefer .308:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ABD05BBE76.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...4FE7F0B731.jpg
10-11-2012, 02:49
nisils14

The 338 Federal is probably advantageous for a hunting scenario. You can get some 208 amax's or 210SMKs going that velocity in 30 cal. It'll need a fast twist barrel to get them hitting accurately and a full length to keep the velocity up. The 308 case just doesn't have the capacity for heavy pills. If you wanna shoot the 200+ grainers in a cheap-ish fashion. I'd look at 300wm or 300wsm.
10-11-2012, 05:26
ray1970

While everyone has brought up some good points about the .308, nobody has said anything that would drive me away from the .338 based on my intended use. Still kind of leaning in that direction.

Thanks again for all of your advice and opinions. [Beer]
10-11-2012, 07:29
Hoser

308 hands down.

The 338 Federal cant push any decent 338 bullets fast enough. Past a few hundred yards it would be like lobbing in artillery shells.
10-11-2012, 07:35
cysoto

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray1970

When this project is complete it will primarily be used for shooting steel from 200 to 500 meters.

Out to 500 meters? Between those two calibers, .308, hands down.
10-11-2012, 07:52
Tim K

If you ever had a desire to shoot in a competition, that 200g bullet will exceed the maximum allowed at some venues.

Personally, I'd go .260 Rem. Significantly better than .308 at long range, low recoil, less expensive (a tiny bit) to load. Since it's .308 based, I assume it should run in the AR-10.

It's on my list of toys to want.
10-11-2012, 08:01
cysoto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim K

... I assume it should run in the AR-10.

It does but, in order to make it fit the magazine, you need to load the rounds to a short OAL which will increase the cartridge pressure.
10-11-2012, 08:10
Gunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoser

308 hands down.

The 338 Federal cant push any decent 338 bullets fast enough. Past a few hundred yards it would be like lobbing in artillery shells.

See this is whee the debate stops. Hoser chimed in and he knows what he is talking about.
10-11-2012, 08:16
C Ward

338 Fed is dying a slow uneventful death like all the other rounds that didn't catch the publics fancy .

This really is a no brainer , the bullet selection available in 30 cal is leaps and bounds better in 338 . Shooting to distance is all about BC and to get a good BC in 338 you got to go to a 250 grain projectile and the 338 Fed doesn't have the case capacity to take advantage of it .

This will be even more the case if this is an AR10 based rifle and being limited to mag length . AR10's are finicky bastards in 308 let alone other cartridges that it wasn't designed for . The further you stray from 308 and the powders associated with it the worse it gets .
10-11-2012, 08:21
MarkCO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

See this is whee the debate stops. Hoser chimed in and he knows what he is talking about.

Should have been. .308 over .338 is good advice.

The .260 is a perfectly fine cartridge for the AR-10 platform and factory ammo does a very solid job. The 7mm-08 is also a consideration.

Of the .308 family, .243, .260, 7mm-08, .308 and .338 Federal, I might put the .338 ahead of the .243. Then between .260, 7mm-08 and .308, it is kind of preference if you toss out the prevalence and cost of factory ammo benefitting the .308.
10-11-2012, 08:40
Delfuego

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray1970

I believe you are thinking of the wrong .338.

You know I am! I was thinking 338 Lapua! Not Federal.[ROFL1] I thought you were gonna buy and build Glenski's 338 lapua stuff [Wink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoser

308 hands down.

The 338 Federal cant push any decent 338 bullets fast enough. Past a few hundred yards it would be like lobbing in artillery shells.

I have had to opportunity to shoot, sight-in and play around with a 338 AR-10. The bullet drop at 600y was considerable; way, way more than 223 or 308.
10-11-2012, 08:47
Tim K

Quote:

Originally Posted by cysoto

It does but, in order to make it fit the magazine, you need to load the rounds to a short OAL which will increase the cartridge pressure.

With 123g SMK's, you can easily load to 2.800" without pressure problems. A small compromise from the 142's, but not terrible.
10-11-2012, 08:50
ray1970

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim K

If you ever had a desire to shoot in a competition, that 200g bullet will exceed the maximum allowed at some venues.

Personally, I'd go .260 Rem. Significantly better than .308 at long range, low recoil, less expensive (a tiny bit) to load. Since it's .308 based, I assume it should run in the AR-10.

It's on my list of toys to want.

I briefly considered the 260 Remington but heard reports that it could be a bit rough on barrels. I suppose as little as I will probably realistically shoot it I might not wear a barrel out. Heck, even if I did wear one out every four or five years I guess the cost of a new barrel wouldn't be so bad. I'll have to do a little more research on it tonight.

Once again, thank you all for the helpful advice and information. That's why I posted this up here. [Beer]
10-11-2012, 08:55
cysoto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim K

With 123g SMK's, you can easily load to 2.800" without pressure problems. A small compromise from the 142's, but not terrible.

I have only seen it tested with 142 grainers and it was piercing primers left and right.
10-11-2012, 10:19
Goodburbon

I was under the impression that you were talking about
338 lm in a bolt rifle when i first answered. There is no advantage of .338 fed over .308 for the posted ranges. You may also want to consider .260 though. Unless huting elk b the eventual goal.
10-11-2012, 10:23
ray1970

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray1970

I briefly considered the 260 Remington but heard reports that it could be a bit rough on barrels. I suppose as little as I will probably realistically shoot it I might not wear a barrel out. Heck, even if I did wear one out every four or five years I guess the cost of a new barrel wouldn't be so bad. I'll have to do a little more research on it tonight.

Once again, thank you all for the helpful advice and information. That's why I posted this up here. [Beer]

I did/am considering the .260. [Beer]
10-11-2012, 10:26
MarkCO

Quote:

Originally Posted by cysoto

I have only seen it tested with 142 grainers and it was piercing primers left and right.

Sure it was not the 6.5 Creedmore? Those are higher pressure and can have primer problems. That or a just loads that were too hot!

I ran hundreds of pretty stout 142s through my AR-10 .260 with no pressure signs at all. For accuracy reasons, I dropped back to the 123s in the gas gun.
10-11-2012, 10:33
Hoser

Quote:

Originally Posted by cysoto

I have only seen it tested with 142 grainers and it was piercing primers left and right.

That shooter learned his lesson. He was trying to use the same powder charge from his bolt gun ammo to his semi ammo.

One caliber + two different guns = two different loads.

I have a semi (LaRue OBR) in 260. 123s on top of H4350 is perfect. I tried 139/ and you have to seat them so deep you end up eating up all your powder space.
10-11-2012, 11:06
Tim K

Ray, I ran dope on Black Hills .308 with the 175 SMK and my .260 load using 123 SMK. It's nearly impossible to post it here without a huge amount of work, but I can easily email them to you. PM me your address if you're interested.
10-11-2012, 11:26
Tim K

Got your address, and the dope is on the way. I did it out to 1K yards. Note the difference in drop, velocity, and wind drift. Energy at that range is about a tie, but the .260 will pull away as the distance increases.

I don't know if you can load 175g SMK's for an AR-10. Someone else here will. If 168's happen to be the max, the difference will be much more dramatic.
10-11-2012, 11:40
ray1970

Thanks, Tim. Those charts actually pulled up nicely on my phone. I'll give them a good look over in a bit.
10-11-2012, 12:20
Hoser

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim K

I don't know if you can load 175g SMK's for an AR-10.

Thats the load for Uncle Sams 118LR ammo. Pretty much the 308 Sniper Ammo for bolt guns and gas guns.
10-11-2012, 12:26
cysoto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoser

That shooter learned his lesson. He was trying to use the same powder charge from his bolt gun ammo to his semi ammo.

One caliber + two different guns = two different loads.

I have a semi (LaRue OBR) in 260. 123s on top of H4350 is perfect. I tried 139/ and you have to seat them so deep you end up eating up all your powder space.

Yeap, that's the same person I was talking about! [Beer]
10-12-2012, 14:02
vectorsc

Man - you guys are on top of it. Was just going to say .260. LOL.
10-12-2012, 17:57
rockymtnrifleman

In an AR platform designed for distance 6.5 Grendel! Very flat long range round! But between the two listed 308 all day!
10-24-2012, 20:27
bigmyk2k

Thanks for the post, and the replies. This had been a question of mine for some time as well. I have (some months ago) determined that .308 is a better choice, for a number of reasons.
1- Being a widely used military round, ammo is relatively cheap and easy to come by.
2- I am not a precision long-distance marksman. If I ever do become one, I may revisit this question, but until then, .308 is more than accurate enough for my needs.
3- I would also plan to use said rifle as a hunting rifle. It would be unwise/unnecessary to get something I am going to blow away at realistic hunting ranges.
Just my two cents.
11-04-2012, 21:03
donsignalli

Alot of competition shooters are starting to use 300 win mag now over 308...
11-04-2012, 21:06
donsignalli

the military is issuing a 300 win mag version of the M24 sniper rifle called the M24E1.... sexy thing it is
11-05-2012, 08:18
Hoser

Quote:

Originally Posted by donsignalli

Alot of competition shooters are starting to use 300 win mag now over 308...

Not in these parts.

The norm is 6.5s with the 6mm calibers making headway.

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