Why Are Steroids Illegal? Why Do We Care About PEDs in Sports?

Another discussion spurred this topic so I thought i would start a new thread to discuss. Here's my take:

This PED debate is SUCH horseshit! People want the fountain of youth and steroids/HGH and related drugs are the closest science has ever gotten to the Holy Grail. Throw the deep pockets of professional sports at the research and let the results help all of mankind. But NOOOO, instead we get a bunch of couch jockeys who think that ANYONE can be a professional athlete if they inject something. That's not how real life works. It can slightly increase athletic ability, substantially increases the human body's ability to heal from injury and recover from working out (good things) and can help to replace what is naturally lower in some due to age or just how their particular chemical production works. Why this is SO taboo is beyond me.

Don't even get me started on the amount of tax payer money wasted to find these horrible horrible people who would use something society has deemed evil. We should be using that money to research it to find out how it can BENEFIT mankind.

At some point in the future people will look back with confusion & humor at how we treated this topic and I don't like being part of the generation that outlawed one of the most important scientific discoveries made to date.

Thoughts?

The problem with PEDs is that it sets up a situation where the only way an athlete can be competitive is if they expose themselves to drugs that may end up harming or killing them.

So this has two sides, the competetive and the social. On the social side what happens goes along these lines-

Little Johnny is a good baseball player in Tee Ball, but as he gets a little older and moves up into competitive ranks, he is just one of many, and maybe even mediocre. Sooo he takes a little juice to make him stronger or faster or whatever. And as he goes along he takes more and more of it, CHOOSING to ignore the health side effects. And then one day his leg breaks because the drugs have weakened his bones, or he has a heart attack , or some form of embollism, requiring a lot of hospitalization his health insurance has to pay for. So the insurance company makes a policy that they will not cover steriod abuse related illness or injuries. Well now the taxpayers have to pay for Johnnys continued medical needs.
OOOOO no one likes that. Why, if those bad bad drugs were illegal then golly the abuse wouldnt happen, and it would give the insurance companies a bigger out, and we can then arrest people for steriod possesion, because everyone knows spending a 100K a year to keep an abuser locked up is much better than paying for medical bills.


On the competitive side, other competitors do not like the thought that its the drugs and not just hard work or natural ability beating them. It comes down to a moral choice that they do not want to be beaten because they chose not to take drugs.

IMHO I dont care if they are legal and some chumps want to dope up and hit the wieghts, but I would have an issue with them in professional sports.

They should be legal.

I was growth hormone deficient as a child. I grew up taking the shots in order to reach 5'3" tall. Science has now proven that we still need it as an adult to function normally. Try find a doc to prescribe it though.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4090

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

The problem with PEDs is that it sets up a situation where the only way an athlete can be competitive is if they expose themselves to drugs that may end up harming or killing them.

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Taking PEDs doesn't always make you a better athlete than someone who doesn't use them. Simply put, it takes MUCH more than an injection to become a great athlete regardless of what you hear from the media. There's also a misconception that taking steroids automatically means a shortened lifespan or more complications down the road as if we're all promised to not get some sort of complication even if we don't take steroids. Lots of times these side effects experienced from the use of steroids are due to the misuse of steroids or lack of knowledge of the use of steroids. That's not just to say that people like you and I use them and don't know but the medical community still doesn't even know fully which is why we need more research and use and not less. Look what professional sports has done for other ailments, injuries and illnesses that otherwise would have taken decades or centuries using normal channels available.

Do you think that someone who is morbidly obese that already has a grim outlook on living a healthy long-term life wouldn't live longer or better with the use of steroids and more knowledge under a doctor's supervision?

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

So this has two sides, the competetive and the social. On the social side what happens goes along these lines-

Little Johnny is a good baseball player in Tee Ball, but as he gets a little older and moves up into competitive ranks, he is just one of many, and maybe even mediocre. Sooo he takes a little juice to make him stronger or faster or whatever. And as he goes along he takes more and more of it, CHOOSING to ignore the health side effects. And then one day his leg breaks because the drugs have weakened his bones, or he has a heart attack , or some form of embollism, requiring a lot of hospitalization his health insurance has to pay for. So the insurance company makes a policy that they will not cover steriod abuse related illness or injuries. Well now the taxpayers have to pay for Johnnys continued medical needs.
OOOOO no one likes that. Why, if those bad bad drugs were illegal then golly the abuse wouldnt happen, and it would give the insurance companies a bigger out, and we can then arrest people for steriod possesion, because everyone knows spending a 100K a year to keep an abuser locked up is much better than paying for medical bills.


On the competitive side, other competitors do not like the thought that its the drugs and not just hard work or natural ability beating them. It comes down to a moral choice that they do not want to be beaten because they chose not to take drugs.

IMHO I dont care if they are legal and some chumps want to dope up and hit the wieghts, but I would have an issue with them in professional sports.

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Weakened bones from PEDs? That's not how they work. What if 'Little Johnny' became a MORE healthy young adult as a result of advancements being made and using them under the supervision of a doctor? These drugs have the ability to make human beings MORE healthy. To heal from injury and sickness QUICKER. The potential that the drugs possess is limitless. Right now the entities that could be advancing this are tied up on making them beat drug tests. No matter what tests we create they will find a way to beat them. It's pointless. If you don't feel they're right then that's fine and you can teach your children that just like you teach them to not drink bleach, gamble, drink, smoke or whatever you deem immoral. None of those however possess the ability to help heal humans and turn back the hands of time.

As for as from a competitive standpoint... pretty much everyone at an elite level uses some form of PED and if you think that only handful of people who have already been caught or are questioned are the only ones then your kidding yourself. SO Much energy is being wasted on not being caught that could be wasted on betting mankind. Most real athletes will look at themselves if they fail. The ones who find something to blame the other guy for will find something else to blame the other guy for.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Weakened bones from PEDs? That's not how they work. What if 'Little Johnny' became a MORE healthy young adult as a result of advancements being made and using them under the supervision of a doctor? These drugs have the ability to make human beings MORE healthy. To heal from injury and sickness QUICKER. The potential that the drugs possess is limitless. Right now the entities that could be advancing this are tied up on making them beat drug tests. No matter what tests we create they will find a way to beat them. It's pointless. If you don't feel they're right then that's fine and you can teach your children that just like you teach them to not drink bleach, gamble, drink, smoke or whatever you deem immoral. None of those however possess the ability to help heal humans and turn back the hands of time.

As for as from a competitive standpoint... pretty much everyone at an elite level uses some form of PED and if you think that only handful of people who have already been caught or are questioned are the only ones then your kidding yourself. SO Much energy is being wasted on not being caught that could be wasted on betting mankind. Most real athletes will look at themselves if they fail. The ones who find something to blame the other guy for will find something else to blame the other guy for.

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Yep I have lowered bone density.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

I was growth hormone deficient as a child. I grew up taking the shots in order to reach 5'3" tall. Science has now proven that we still need it as an adult to function normally. Try find a doc to prescribe it though.

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Great example. Doctors won't prescribe them because society has deemed them immoral and wrong... NOT the medical community. This is an important distinction that needs to be made.

They're illegal because the government knows what's best for us. We're free but only if we follow the rules...

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Yep I have lowered bone density.

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Your condition itself causes low bone density. Without your condition (which lead to your use of steroids to begin with) most people will experience INCREASED bone density with the use of steroids.

Jer I think you need to do more research into the side effects of the different steriods out there. A champion bodybuilder who was addicted to steroids had to retire because his steriod use had damaged his bones, heart, and had affected his hormone levels to the point his emotions were only controlled via drugs. There are a lot of real dangers behind juicing, no matter what anyone says.

i dont think that means they should be illegal, just make sure you well informed.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Jer I think you need to do more research into the side effects of the different steriods out there. A champion bodybuilder who was addicted to steroids had to retire because his steriod use had damaged his bones, heart, and had affected his hormone levels to the point his emotions were only controlled via drugs. There are a lot of real dangers behind juicing, no matter what anyone says.

i dont think that means they should be illegal, just make sure you well informed.

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WAY too many variables in this story but the first thing that jumps out at me that is undeniable is 'champion body builder' as this wouldn't be the poster child for healthy steroid use. Just like professional body builders shouldn't be the poster child for healthy bodies and living. They understand the human body and manipulate it to do things that are dangerous to the human body. This shouldn't be a good deterrent to anyone who wants to use them to simply become a more healthy version of the person that they are. Abuse of ANYTHING can lead to health complications but for some reason this gets glossed over whenever the topic of steroids is mentioned.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Jer I think you need to do more research into the side effects of the different steriods out there. A champion bodybuilder who was addicted to steroids had to retire because his steriod use had damaged his bones, heart, and had affected his hormone levels to the point his emotions were only controlled via drugs. There are a lot of real dangers behind juicing, no matter what anyone says.

i dont think that means they should be illegal, just make sure you well informed.

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I just had an acquaintance pass away from kidney failure due to abusing steroids as a body builder. His choice, his life.

Lets make all pro sports live or die with lotsa blood just like the fuckin Roman Empire did with gladiators just before it collapsed like this country is heading.

Haven't put a lot of thought into this topic, but my initial reaction parallels this:

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

IMHO I dont care if they are legal and some chumps want to dope up and hit the wieghts, but I would have an issue with them in professional sports.

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I don't think anything one can do to one's self should be illegal. I do think in professional, competitive sports it equates to cheating, as it creates a disadvantage for those who choose not to use PEDs. Cheating of any kind should not be allowed in professional sports, but if you aren't getting paid for it, knock yourself out.

I really could care less if people want to kill themselves. The problem I have is abuse is what makes it hard for it to be used for legit uses.

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Originally Posted by BREATHER

Lets make all pro sports live or die with lotsa blood just like the fuckin Roman Empire did with gladiators just before it collapsed like this country is heading.

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I actually think it would be a good idea for our prison system. Pay-per-view, the revenue would more than cover all the expenses of our jails and the salaries of the guards/warden and probably above and beyond that to cover more police/fire etc.

Maybe give them a way to earn their freedom for the very select few that win. Something along the lines of the movie 'death race'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster*

Great docu on subject.

There are other forms of PEDs besides steroids. Epeotin Alpha or darbepoetin alfa can be used for PED.
That is what people initially thought Lance was on 6-7 years ago.

Physicians or Anti-doping agency employees can correct me if I am wrong, but I guess some athlete can be on those anemia medications or Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs when they are not competing?

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Originally Posted by BREATHER

Lets make all pro sports live or die with lotsa blood just like the fuckin Roman Empire did with gladiators just before it collapsed like this country is heading.

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Uhmm... no.

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Originally Posted by Teufelhund

I don't think anything one can do to one's self should be illegal. I do think in professional, competitive sports it equates to cheating, as it creates a disadvantage for those who choose not to use PEDs. Cheating of any kind should not be allowed in professional sports, but if you aren't getting paid for it, knock yourself out.

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So is someone who naturally has a MUCH higher testosterone level than the average cheating? Why not? They have a CLEAR advantage over their fellow competitors. What about those who manage to do well enough to make the pros with a much lower testosterone level than average? Wouldn't it be fair if theirs could be elevated to what a normal man has, whatever that is? If a high/low threshold were created wouldn't it be fair for those who didn't meet the low to increase their levels to remain on par with where everyone else is at? I mean, we ARE talking about fair... right? Now, what if I told you that these evil drugs helped IMMENSELY in the time down from injury and recovering from a workout/game/performance that would make the next game less dangerous for competitors? This isn't a fairy tail.. it's what steroids can do.

We already know it can aid in healing and recovery but what if (and I know this is a stretch here, but go with me) it's found that steroids can be used to lessen the severity of a concussion? What if it can make repeat occurrences of concussions less severe? What if it's found that steroids can lessen the long-term effects of concussions (if you subscribe to this w/o medical proof) suffered by athletes? Now, I'm not saying this is indeed the case but w/o the proper research how can we know? Just as professional sports has paved the way for advancing procedures for previous injuries it will do the same for the study of concussions and closed head injuries. Why? Because that's where the money is in this economy. Like it or not. Protecting the shield (NFL) from injury related lawsuits and helping to get them back on the field as soon as safely possible. There have been some amazing advancements in medicine due to professional sports and I want this kind of motivation applied to a medicine that possesses such potential. If we continue to make it an illegal taboo then nobody is going to touch it other than to waste money and man hours to prove someone is taking it.

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Originally Posted by MrPrena

There are other forms of PEDs besides steroids. Epeotin Alpha or darbepoetin alfa can be used for PED.
That is what people initially thought Lance was on 6-7 years ago.

Physicians or Anti-doping agency employees can correct me if I am wrong, but I guess some athlete can be on those anemia medications or Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs when they are not competing?

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Exactly. People want to focus on steroids of various types and recently HGH was the media buzzword but the amount of PEDs out there are more numerous than the average citizen can even contemplate. There are just so many different ways to chemically produce it and other related hormones that it's endless. People are testing positive for stupid things that aren't even PEDs because the tests are so crappy but all they have and meanwhile most users will never be caught. Ignorant people scream for 'justice' and knee-jerk fixes are introduced while the real problem remains untouched because that's just too difficult but we'll spend enough and do enough so that the average person feels better about the topic. Sounds familiar? *cough*TSA*cough*

Is caffeine or energy drinks a PED? It gives you energy and alertness and some people can't consume them due to religion or chose not to consume them due to health reasons so wouldn't someone who does gain an unfair advantage? Isn't Gatorade a PED? What about Neosporin? Silly I know but what about Cortisone shots? Those are steroids after all and are VERY widely used to treat inflammation and pain. Those aren't considering PEDs but they not only are in the same family of medicine they're injected, have potential side effects which are increased if abused and some people choose not to use them for these reasons. Why are these legal? There was a time when they were considered quite dangerous but thanks to professional sports we now know better and they're used properly because of the information gained from professional sports on a daily basis.

The point is if we wasted time banning ALL PEDs from professional sports athletes would be eating bread and drinking water just to make it fair for everyone. All this aside don't we live in the freest society in the world? Shouldn't WE be the ones who decide what we choose to consume and at what rate?

You make some decent points, but I don't think the negative side effects of certain PEDs like steroids are worth the potential they may hold for reduction of injury or improving recovery times. This is my own, non-medical opinion though, so just thinking out loud for the sake of discussion.

I think healthy competition is about a combination of genetics, training, and commitment; the point being they are all naturally occurring. If one guy can inject a drug into himself that replaces the months of cardio/weight-lifting/whatever that his competitor has been subjecting himself to through sheer dedication, the competition becomes more about who can make/take a better drug, and less about who is the better athlete.

I think congress should spend a few more years questioning Roger. That is a good use of time and tax payer money.

The leagues should make the rules on drug use, not the government.

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Originally Posted by Teufelhund

You make some decent points, but I don't think the negative side effects of certain PEDs like steroids are worth the potential they may hold for reduction of injury or improving recovery times. This is my own, non-medical opinion though, so just thinking out loud for the sake of discussion.

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That was one of my points though. What if research perfected (or at least got a lot closer) the dosage to where you could just bump someone's levels slightly to the point where the side-effects were pretty much non-existent? These horrible side-effects you often read about are from some juice-head who knows just enough about the subject to be dangerous to himself. Like most things the media reports on if done so in moderation most things aren't as deadly as they would have you believe. I think a lot of your stance is coming from misinformation. You would be amazed by how many 'regular' people use steroids and most of them you wouldn't be able to pick them out at the gym since they do so in moderation and are just a better and more healthy version of themselves.

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Originally Posted by Teufelhund

I think healthy competition is about a combination of genetics, training, and commitment; the point being they are all naturally occurring. If one guy can inject a drug into himself that replaces the months of cardio/weight-lifting/whatever that his competitor has been subjecting himself to through sheer dedication, the competition becomes more about who can make/take a better drug, and less about who is the better athlete.

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So let's examine a scenario where one guy's body naturally produces substantially more testosterone than the average man. Another guy's body naturally produces less than the average man who takes a small dosage of synthetic testosterone that brings him up to where an average man is. One person has substantially less testosterone even though it's synthetic yet HE is the cheater. I don't understand this. You go on to make it sound like someone who uses synthetic testosterone doesn't work hard. If anything, those who use testosterone do so so that they can work even HARDER than someone who doesn't. That's another thing most people don't understand. They think that you juice up and you sit on the couch and before you know it your huge, ripped and setting professional sports records. That's hardly the case.

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Originally Posted by hollohas

I think congress should spend a few more years questioning Roger. That is a good use of time and tax payer money.

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That's exactly what we need. So sick of that whole fiasco and not sure what we have to show for the investment if time and money.

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Originally Posted by hollohas

The leagues should make the rules on drug use, not the government.

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That way our government wouldn't have to make any decisions that could upset the voters.

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Originally Posted by sniper7

Maybe give them a way to earn their freedom for the very select few that win. Something along the lines of the movie 'death race'.

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Giving someone freedom in exchange for killing as many people as possible sounds like a super idea!

[Beer]

Jer, you make a lot of good points, but when it comes to sports, there would have to be an "open" class of each sport that allowed steroid use. Just the same a shooting competitions. If you shoot a stock pistol, and want to compete against other guys with stock pistols, you should have a stock pistol class available in which to do so. If you are such a badass with your stock pistol (or extra testosterone) that you want to voluntarily move up to the Open, or Outlaw class, then go right ahead. Guys with modified pistols should not be allowed to move down a class though.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Jer, you make a lot of good points, but when it comes to sports, there would have to be an "open" class of each sport that allowed steroid use. Just the same a shooting competitions. If you shoot a stock pistol, and want to compete against other guys with stock pistols, you should have a stock pistol class available in which to do so. If you are such a badass with your stock pistol (or extra testosterone) that you want to voluntarily move up to the Open, or Outlaw class, then go right ahead. Guys with modified pistols should not be allowed to move down a class though.

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Anytime you create different classes there is incentive to cheat. Unlike shooting sports it's not so easy to spot a cheater. Pretty easy to spot someone running an open class Saiga 12 in a lower class. Not so easy to spot someone using an exotic boutique PED in different 'class' sports. In fact, various classes would make it even more difficult to try to track.

Here's another thing to think about: When you make something illegal you create a black market and criminals. Prices of product go up and quality of product is completely unknown for the most part. As I've said with other drugs, people who want to do something will find a way. By attempting to make them illegal all you're doing is giving drug dealers and criminals more work and taking up space in jail cells that should be reserved for people who actually commit crimes.