Semi vs. Revolver for Carry

This may have come up before, but I want to pose it the experts here.

When carrying, there are a lot of things to consider. I would like to focus on the Revolver vs. Semi question.

Now, ballistics aside, it seems like each has their benefits and drawbacks, and, I'll try to list them here, as I see them:

Semi:
Pros- Increased Capacity, multiple safetys, possibility for slimmer profile/more concealable, relatively easy reloads
Cons- Have to carry cocked and locked (most models) or rack the slide for first shot, reliability of safety (knowing it is safe and trusting it to be are two different things), light trigger in stressful events, lots of moving parts to catch clothes or other things in pocket firing

Revolver:
Pros- Simple operation (all you have to do is pull the trigger), many models have no or minimal external hammer/ can be fired from a pocket without any parts to get caught, not leaving shells all over the place (I'm not really concerned about leaving evidence, but I know others are, so I'm including it)
Cons- Limited ammo supply, relatively complicated reloads, wider body/harder to conceal

So, my questions are these:
What am I missing from these lists, and how do you weight the factors.

For me, it is largely ease of operation (Revolver) vs. Capacity (Semi), but, again, this question is more for my wife, so most of it comes into play.

What does the shooter prefer? I shoot both semi and revolver, but my wife hates shooting semi autos. All the technical specs in the world won't make a bit of difference to her, she'll carry what works for her.

The most important thing to me for gauging a potential carry gun is reliability. Past that I think it's mostly nitpicking or folks trying to justify their choice. I just think any reliable carry gun is just perfect.

What is SHE comfortable carrying? It may seem like the best gun in the world on paper but if it's at home and not on her, then it's useless. Forget the comparisons and find out what she is can shoot and is willing to carry. Most women don't think logically and will go with what feels better to them. Go find that gun for her.

I think the OP may have failed to recognize the DA/SA semi auto's that are available out there. Look at the CZ75 p-01 for instance. It can be carried with 1 in the chamber, uncocked, and still be fired by simply pulling the trigger (like a revolver). With DA/SA semi-autos available, I see no reason to carry a revolver, but that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by bigmyk2k

Semi:
Cons- Have to carry cocked and locked (most models) or rack the slide for first shot, reliability of safety (knowing it is safe and trusting it to be are two different things), light trigger in stressful events, lots of moving parts to catch clothes or other things in pocket firing.

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Starting with a lot of false premises here.

Most semi autos are DA/SA, DAO or "Safe Action" (striker fired double action) not single action only. Also you don't pocket carry any gun (auto or revolver) without a pocket holster (if nothing else to protect the trigger). And this notion that revolvers are significantly more reliable than autos is just false (for one thing, when something goes wrong with a wheel gun it's usually out of commission until a gunsmith tears into it ... at least failures with an auto can often be corrected with a quick "Tap-Rack-Roll").

So yes, a compact 1911 pocket carried without a holster then you'd be right, but most concealable autos (especially pocket sized) aren't going to have any of the problems you're talking about.


At any rate, a small revolver is NOT a good gun for novices. Other than stuffing them into someone's belly and pulling the trigger five times, you're not going to shoot it well unless you practice a lot (same goes with any small gun, but tiny DA revolvers have a steeper learning curve). I cringe every time I see someone recommending a J-Frame sized wheel gun to an inexperienced woman.

The main reason to pack a wheel gun is because either you're better at shooting it than an auto or you're packing a magnum or big bore because you want the extra power. Otherwise, there are just too many quality CCW automatics designed for use by novices to saddle "the little lady" with a J Frame just because it says "Lady Smith" on the frame.

Does pocket firing mean what I think it means?

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Originally Posted by dan512

Does pocket firing mean what I think it means?

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I assumed he meant pocket carry.

Firing a gun (especially a revolver) from the pocket is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

With an auto you get one shot and the gun will likely jam.
With a revolver, you'll likely get burned through your clothing by the blast coming out of the cylinder/barrel gap (and/or catch your clothing on fire). Good chance of burning your hand too which means you're also probably only getting one shot off.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/245...astcompare.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Starting with a lot of false premises here.

Most semi autos are DA/SA, DAO or "Safe Action" (striker fired double action) not single action only. Also you don't pocket carry any gun (auto or revolver) without a pocket holster (if nothing else to protect the trigger). And this notion that revolvers are significantly more reliable than autos is just false (for one thing, when something goes wrong with a wheel gun it's usually out of commission until a gunsmith tears into it ... at least failures with an auto can often be corrected with a quick "Tap-Rack-Roll").

So yes, a compact 1911 pocket carried without a holster then you'd be right, but most concealable autos (especially pocket sized) aren't going to have any of the problems you're talking about.

At any rate, a small revolver is NOT a good gun for novices. Other than stuffing them into someone's belly and pulling the trigger five times, you're not going to shoot it well unless you practice a lot (same goes with any small gun, but tiny DA revolvers have a steeper learning curve). I cringe every time I see someone recommending a J-Frame sized wheel gun to an inexperienced woman.

The main reason to pack a wheel gun is because either you're better at shooting it than an auto or you're packing a magnum or big bore because you want the extra power. Otherwise, there are just too many quality CCW automatics designed for use by novices to saddle "the little lady" with a J Frame just because it says "Lady Smith" on the frame.

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I appreciate the concern. I will admit that my knowledge of semis isn't real strong outside of a 1911. However, the basis of this post was a discussion with a long time LEO (part of which as a SWAT sniper) and his Sheriff son.

I fully agree about safety, and the necessity of carrying in a pocket holster, though for her, it will more likely be in a purse.

Regarding the DA vs SA comment, I am referring to the action of pulling the trigger on an "unracked" pistol, and determining whether the hammer is cocked and released. Many semis which are technically DAs will only click on the first pull. This is the essence of DAO, as I understand it.

(Actually, to quote wikipedia, "Glock, Springfield XD and XDm, and Kahr semi-automatic pistols are not DA (or DAO) pistols because the striker is "cocked" to an intermediate position by the operation of the slide and they cannot be re-activated by pulling the trigger a second time." I would add a lot of other models to that list too, such as the lauded LCP, if I recall correctly.)

I would highly agree with the "Whatever she's comfortable with" sentiment, but my "Little Lady" an ex-ROTC chick, who was cadet of the year, and the only girl to complete the Ranger challenge while she was in, and didn't go in only because her hearing loss was discovered (they wanted her so much that they let her take the test 4 times). In fact, on an AR, she can out shoot me 7 days a week (I'm anonymous, so I can admit that). So, comfort, trigger control and respect for the weapon aren't an issue.

Mostly, this thread was to get more data and opinion for her. Though, ultimately, it is most likely to come down to trying a number of options.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

I assumed he meant pocket carry.

Firing a gun (especially a revolver) from the pocket is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

With an auto you get one shot and the gun will likely jam.
With a revolver, you'll likely get burned through your clothing by the blast coming out of the cylinder/barrel gap (and/or catch your clothing on fire). Good chance of burning your hand too which means you're also probably only getting one shot off.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/245...astcompare.jpg

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That is what I understood it to mean, though, it was an idea from the aforementioned conversation. Regarding the flare out the sides, I certainly hadn't considered that particular consequence. Though, that second pic looks like a real heavy load with a lot of unburned powder making it out of the barrel. But, that is a shotgun loader talking.

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Originally Posted by bigmyk2k

Regarding the DA vs SA comment, I am referring to the action of pulling the trigger on an "unracked" pistol, and determining whether the hammer is cocked and released. Many semis which are technically DAs will only click on the first pull. This is the essence of DAO, as I understand it.

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You misunderstand, or would for some reason be carrying a DA or DAO unchambered for that to happen. Chambered DA or DAO will fire on the first pull, and DA will be single-action trigger after that first shot.

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(Actually, to quote wikipedia, "Glock, Springfield XD and XDm, and Kahr semi-automatic pistols are not DA (or DAO) pistols because the striker is "cocked" to an intermediate position by the operation of the slide and they cannot be re-activated by pulling the trigger a second time." I would add a lot of other models to that list too, such as the lauded LCP, if I recall correctly.)

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Glock is not SA - the act of pressing the trigger cocks the striker, which is at rest and loose when the trigger is forward (shake one sometime and you can hear the firing pin move a little). They do lack full DA "second strike" capability, since they require slide movement to reset the disconnector after a trigger press, though.

Thanks for the reply, this discussion has been helpful for my understanding.

Semi:
Pros- Increased Capacity(YES), multiple safetys(YES), possibility for slimmer profile/more concealable (Not so about the same to a little higher profile), relatively easy reloads(YES)
Cons- Have to carry cocked and locked (most models) or rack the slide for first shot, reliability of safety (knowing it is safe and trusting it to be are two different things)(too many safetys problem, a safety like on the trigger or on back of pistolgrip ok but not great),
light trigger in stressful events( unless custom done the trigger pull is most of the time greater then the revolver), lots of moving parts to catch clothes or other things in pocket firing(YES)

Revolver:
Pros- Simple operation (all you have to do is pull the trigger)(Yes), many models have no or minimal external hammer/ can be fired from a pocket without any parts to get caught(Yes), not leaving shells all over the place (I'm not really concerned about leaving evidence, but I know others are, so I'm including it)(yes thats good), some as light as semi and they make them lighter then semi-autos.
Cons- Limited ammo supply(No and Yes, 44spl is harder to find ammo, 357mag/38spl easy to find more varity to suit the revolvers weight), relatively complicated reloads( No, Easier to reload then semi-auto), wider body/harder to conceal( No again)
Zundfolge says;
With a revolver, you'll likely get burned through your clothing by the blast coming out of the cylinder/barrel gap (and/or catch your clothing on fire). Good chance of burning your hand too which means you're also probably only getting one shot off.

Never have I had this problem with the small revolvers with standard loads
this is some thing you get from larger frame revolvers with mag loads.

Got my mom a snub nose revolver 38spl she loves it and does better with it then any center fire semi-auto she fired. I know many females that carry revolvers so I do not know where Zundfolge is coming from.

I saw a video years ago where a guy took one of the hammerless J-frame revolvers and fired it from inside the pocket of a windbreaker. Totally destroyed the jacket but he was just fine. He fired at a target maybe three or four feet in front of him and made good hits. He fired all five shots. You'd never get more than one shot off with a semi if you tried that.

You will not set yourself on fire with either. Dirty, and ruined jacket-yes, fire-no.

I agree with what a lot of members have said so far about this. Find what is most comfortable and easiest to use. But most importantly know the potential flaws, know how to overcome them, and get plenty of practice with whichever firearm you choose. I probably just beat the hell out of a dead horse but that is my 2 pennies on it.

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Originally Posted by YammyMonkey

You will not set yourself on fire with either. Dirty, and ruined jacket-yes, fire-no.

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A guy on another forum that I used to frequent did set his coat on fire when he tried this. It was a cotton carhart type work coat that was long past due for replacement. I think he was firing a model 10 with healthy 38 special loads.
Wasn't a big deal, he just patted the fire out. That said, if the situation is bad enough I need to shoot from my pocket a little fire is the least of my worries.


Revolvers or bottom feeders? Who cares. Just pick one and practice.

Respectfully, IMHO a small revolver is the BEST choice for a novice to CCW. They don't jam, ever, unless something goes horribly wrong with bad ammo or broken springs. No safety to fiddle with. Very simple operation.

As for "shooting well", most use of a handgun for SD occurs well within 10 feet (I think the average was 7 ft) and, statistically, the rounds fired will not be accurate anyway due to stress and movement.

The only two caveats with a wheelgun are that lightweight frames with +P ammo deliver punishing recoil, and revolvers with a full hammer spur can snag on clothing. So if you don't have a hammerless or CH steel framed revolver it is best to load with standard velocity ammo and have the hammer spur bobbed off. Many of the negligent discharges with revolvers involved the hammer being cocked for SA shooting resulting in a super light trigger pull, or the person slipping while decocking over a live round. A novice has no business messing around with SA in a snub revolver anyway -- that is only intended for accurate aimed shots at distances of 30 ft or more.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

At any rate, a small revolver is NOT a good gun for novices. Other than stuffing them into someone's belly and pulling the trigger five times, you're not going to shoot it well unless you practice a lot (same goes with any small gun, but tiny DA revolvers have a steeper learning curve). I cringe every time I see someone recommending a J-Frame sized wheel gun to an inexperienced woman.

The main reason to pack a wheel gun is because either you're better at shooting it than an auto or you're packing a magnum or big bore because you want the extra power. Otherwise, there are just too many quality CCW automatics designed for use by novices to saddle "the little lady" with a J Frame just because it says "Lady Smith" on the frame.

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Originally Posted by Sawin

I think the OP may have failed to recognize the DA/SA semi auto's that are available out there. Look at the CZ75 p-01 for instance. It can be carried with 1 in the chamber, uncocked, and still be fired by simply pulling the trigger (like a revolver). With DA/SA semi-autos available, I see no reason to carry a revolver, but that's just my opinion.

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^ I will build upon this...

A revolver is no better with reliability than a well built semi auto. That is one thing I have learned so far with my time at this gunsmithing school and from talking to the instructors (who worked at the factories or had their own shop).

I will use Hk for my example...

I see no reason to carry a revolver (using the hammer down on an empty chamber notion) as I can rack the slide on my Hk, and then use the decocker to let the hammer down safely. At that point, my Hk is exactly like a revolver using the double action trigger pull to fire off the first round, and (unlike a revolver) I have twelve more rounds of 45 acp to follow if needed (or 8 in my wife's gun). Some semi autos are better than others. As others have said and I say, if you're gona carry (using the gun for self protection), you should carry the best, and to me, nothing I have owned has beaten the USP. [Beer]

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Originally Posted by Clint45

Respectfully, IMHO a small revolver is the BEST choice for a novice to CCW. They don't jam, ever, unless something goes horribly wrong with bad ammo or broken springs.

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They can jam. The ends of the arms wear, or break off as a couple examples.

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Originally Posted by spyder

They can jam. The ends of the arms wear, or break off as a couple examples.

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True, but that is a mechanical failure due to stress and fatigue.

Even a good quality automatic in perfect condition can jam if there is a hard primer or the pistol is fired limp wristed. A novice may not acquire a proper stance under stress, nor may they be able to clear a jam quickly if they are being attacked.

I had one revolver jam due to primers backing out of aluminum cases, and another jam due to a 40 year old mainspring that was dry as a bone. Those are the only two jams I've ever had with a revolver. I've had dozens of jams with pistols, even once with a Glock. Sometimes it can be cleared, other times it can't.

Historically I'm a 1911 guy, but revolvers definitely have their place. I carry one for backup, and I don't feel undergunned when it's all I have.

The organic shape of a small revolver offers some real advantages for concealment. I find that this especially matters with ankle carry. With revolvers, a brief glimpse of holster can be mistaken for droopy socks, but with a semi-auto it tends to looks like you have a candy bar strapped to your leg, which if nothing else just invites a second look.

Revolver advantages:
- organic shape
- more tolerant of *neglect*
- simple, non-bewildering operation

Semi-auto advantages:
- flat, narrow shape
- more tolerant of *abuse* (dropping)
- speed of reloading
- capacity

Safeties? That's not really a revolver-vs-semi issue, as there are plenty of semis without active safeties. Trigger weight? Short barrel? External hammer or not? Same answers.

The mechanics of revolver operation are pretty straightforward, and that can be a big deal. I agree that snubbies are over-prescribed for newbies, but a 4-inch barreled revolver can be a really viable choice for that reason alone. I've seen too many novices intimidated by semis to not take this issue seriously.

Another place revolvers shine, IMO, is in pocket carry. The small semis just require more maintenance than most people are going to put into them. With a linted-up revolver you can always just crunch through to the next round. Ideal? No. But this is the real world.

The last thing I want in a high stress situation is a long, heavy trigger pull.

I'd be concerned about setting my clothes on fire if I was wearing something with synthetics in it. Doesn't polyester instantly melt to your skin? I know a guy with only one nipple because he pulled a pot of boiling water onto himself as a kid while wearing a polyester sweater. The sweater melted to his skin. Patting out a little flame on cotton is one thing, but having half your jacket melt to your body is quite another.

Finally, it might be just because I have VERY limited experience with a revolver, but I recently shot one and had a hard time hitting anything because the trigger was so foreign to me. I'd need some serious range time to get it down. On the same note, that same day I also shot my sub-compact pocket semi-auto and the trigger was so atrocious, and recoil so painful, that I think I hit ONE target that I aimed at the whole day.

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Originally Posted by IShouldDoThisAllTheTime

Historically I'm a 1911 guy, but revolvers definitely have their place. I carry one for backup, and I don't feel undergunned when it's all I have.

The organic shape of a small revolver offers some real advantages for concealment. I find that this especially matters with ankle carry. With revolvers, a brief glimpse of holster can be mistaken for droopy socks, but with a semi-auto it tends to looks like you have a candy bar strapped to your leg, which if nothing else just invites a second look.

Revolver advantages:
- organic shape
- more tolerant of *neglect*
- simple, non-bewildering operation

Semi-auto advantages:
- flat, narrow shape
- more tolerant of *abuse* (dropping)
- speed of reloading
- capacity

Safeties? That's not really a revolver-vs-semi issue, as there are plenty of semis without active safeties. Trigger weight? Short barrel? External hammer or not? Same answers.

The mechanics of revolver operation are pretty straightforward, and that can be a big deal. I agree that snubbies are over-prescribed for newbies, but a 4-inch barreled revolver can be a really viable choice for that reason alone. I've seen too many novices intimidated by semis to not take this issue seriously.

Another place revolvers shine, IMO, is in pocket carry. The small semis just require more maintenance than most people are going to put into them. With a linted-up revolver you can always just crunch through to the next round. Ideal? No. But this is the real world.

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Never heard Organic used to describe a revolver before interesting......

I like pistol's & revolver's, choice for carry, both. Hard trigger pull, unable to hit anything. That all gets resolved with practice.
Now those lcp's. Very uncomfortable to shoot, for me with wrist & hand issues. However a lot of people would select one of them over a revolver, to each their own.

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Originally Posted by jim

Never heard Organic used to describe a revolver before interesting......

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Sure. A 638 with boot grips, in a good molded leather ankle holster, with a thin dress sock pulled up to the trigger guard...organic definitely seems like the right word to me.

I tried carrying my Kahr PM40 the same way, gave up after a month. There is just no plausible deniability when you have something that blocky hanging a few inches above your Florsheims.

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Originally Posted by Clint45

True, but that is a mechanical failure due to stress and fatigue. And just pure and simple breakage, which happens more than you know. As I also stated, that is just one of the ways in which a revolver can let you down.

Even a good quality automatic in perfect condition can jam if there is a hard primer or the pistol is fired limp wristed... Some designs are more susceptible to limp wristing the gun. For example, my eight year old daughter can shoot my USP without issue, nuff said.

I had one revolver jam due to primers backing out of aluminum cases, and another jam due to a 40 year old mainspring that was dry as a bone. Those are the only two jams I've ever had with a revolver. I've had dozens of jams with pistols, even once with a Glock.... I shoot 45's, and in that arena, Glock sucks with both the 21 and the 30 in which I have owned multiples of... and was happy with none...

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Originally Posted by IShouldDoThisAllTheTime

Revolver advantages:
- organic shape < I like the description
- more tolerant of *neglect* This depends on the semi auto pistol the revolver is up against....
- simple, non-bewildering operation Have you opened most revolvers out there?

Semi-auto advantages:
- flat, narrow shape
- more tolerant of *abuse* (dropping) Depends on the revolver.
- speed of reloading Depends on the person.
- capacity

Safeties? That's not really a revolver-vs-semi issue, as there are plenty of semis without active safeties. Don't forget revolvers with passive safeties! Trigger weight? < Can be changed with either platform. Short barrel? External hammer or not? Same answers.

The mechanics of revolver operation are pretty straightforward, and that can be a big deal... I think there are lots of revolvers out there that you have not taken apart...

Another place revolvers shine, IMO, is in pocket carry. The small semis just require more maintenance than most people are going to put into them. With a linted-up revolver you can always just crunch through to the next round. Ideal? No. But this is the real world. If lint is going to stop your carry gun from working, you need a different carry gun...

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This can be argued many different ways... Lots of different points can be brought up for both sides. For triggers, one trigger that is growing on me is the light LEM for Hk's. It's a 4 lb trigger pull on a DAO set up that is very crisp and easy to shoot with. The next thing, is most of the revolvers out there, are not straight forward in how they work, at least not any easier to explain than the normal semi auto. You can note, there are 52 parts to my USP...
http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_im...1QHxwCl4dL.jpg
...and 70 parts to the S&W J frame...
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/sc.../sw-jframe.gif
...and the same ammount of parts on an 1877 Colt, as there is on my USP...
http://www.gunreports.com/media/news...ltRevolver.jpg
...and this old revolver with 42 parts that is a single action, with no safety...
http://www.usfirearms.com/im/SA_parts_diagram.jpg
There are more revolvers with even bigger parts lists than these... Can you tell me exactly what happens when you pull the trigger on your revolver? What parts do what, at which specific time? I guess it depends on what you mean by straight forward...


The only arguement that I will take that the revolver has over the semi auto, is if you have a dud round, you can just keep pulling the trigger till one goes bang, where on the semi, you have to rack the slide, but that's the only arguement I will say is a win for the revolver. The arguements about all of the other faults of semi's... as I said, buy the best one you can if you are serious about carry (this includes ammo). In this, I compare the revolver to my Hk's, and in reliability and durability, the revolver isn't any better, and in a really dirty environment (mud), you won't like that revolver.

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Originally Posted by spyder

^ I will build upon this...

A revolver is no better with reliability than a well built semi auto. That is one thing I have learned so far with my time at this gunsmithing school and from talking to the instructors (who worked at the factories or had their own shop).

I will use Hk for my example...

I see no reason to carry a revolver (using the hammer down on an empty chamber notion) as I can rack the slide on my Hk, and then use the decocker to let the hammer down safely. At that point, my Hk is exactly like a revolver using the double action trigger pull to fire off the first round, and (unlike a revolver) I have twelve more rounds of 45 acp to follow if needed (or 8 in my wife's gun). Some semi autos are better than others. As others have said and I say, if you're gona carry (using the gun for self protection), you should carry the best, and to me, nothing I have owned has beaten the USP. [Beer]

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Exactly.

When I say "simple operation" I'm not talking about from an armorer's perspective, rather from a naive/newbie operator perspective. Parts counts aren't really relevant to this kind of user.

Me: "So as you pull the trigger, there's a clockwork mechanism that advances the cylinder and cocks the hammer. See? Then at a certain point everything is lined up and the hammer falls."
Newbie: "Oh, yeah, I see that. 'Clockwork' makes sense."

Me: "Some of the recoil energy is stolen by this mechanism that unlocks the action and lets the slide move rearward. There's this hook on the slide that pulls the empty case out of the chamber and flings it across the room. A spring takes over and pushes the slide back closed, and on the way the slide strips a fresh round out of the magazine and pushes it in to the chamber. While all this was happening the hammer(/striker/whatever) got cocked(/pre-cocked), and now when you pull the trigger again all it has to do is release the hammer and let it fall."
Newbie: "Huh?"

I've had conversations like those many, many times. If I'm bad at explaining machines, I'm not alone in it; NRA Basic Pistol classes spend fifteen minutes explaining semi-auto operation, and people still walk away looking bewildered. In my experience newbies have a basic, comfortable understanding of revolvers (again, not at an armorer level) within 30 seconds.

This speaks to an important point: it's really hard for advanced/expert/authoritative users to remember what it was like to be a novice. I submit that those of us who were field-stripping 1911s before we'd had our first kiss will have a remarkably hard time relating to or understanding the needs of someone who has only seen a gun while they were being mugged. A basic understanding how something works is extremely important to confident handling, and if someone can get that more quickly with a revolver than with a semi-auto, that's worth consideration.

/treatise

:)

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Originally Posted by spyder

If lint is going to stop your carry gun from working, you need a different carry gun...

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A statement which might be taken to support my point!

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Originally Posted by IShouldDoThisAllTheTime

When I say "simple operation" I'm not talking about from an armorer's perspective, rather from a naive/newbie operator perspective...

Me: "So as you pull the trigger, there's a clockwork mechanism that advances the cylinder and cocks the hammer. See? Then at a certain point everything is lined up and the hammer falls."
Newbie: "Oh, yeah, I see that. 'Clockwork' makes sense."

Me: "Some of the recoil energy is stolen by this mechanism that unlocks the action and lets the slide move rearward. There's this hook on the slide that pulls the empty case out of the chamber and flings it across the room. A spring takes over and pushes the slide back closed, and on the way the slide strips a fresh round out of the magazine and pushes it in to the chamber. While all this was happening the hammer(/striker/whatever) got cocked(/pre-cocked), and now when you pull the trigger again all it has to do is release the hammer and let it fall."
Newbie: "Huh?"

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You went into detail a lot more in the semi auto. I've explained this a lot also, both to people who have never held a gun, and to my friends that were in the military, that wanted to know more.

Basic: I will go straight to the trigger pull part

Revolver - When you pull the trigger, it operates this arm (I point to the arm that spins the cylinder) and that turns the cylinder to align a cartridge up with the barrel to be shot. At the same time it makes the hammer pivot back, till the hammer slips off the edge of the trigger and falls onto the back of the cartridge, and boom. Your first shot fires, and you do it over again.

That is all that I get into it for the very first part. I explain what they can see working. I don't explain the cylinder stop, the different parts inside the revolver that are also helping, or even the sears at this point, just what I said above (unless there is a hammer stop that needs to move out of the way).

Semi auto - When you pull the trigger, it makes the hammer pivot back, till the hammer slips off the edge of the trigger and falls onto the back of the cartridge, and boom. When the cartridge goes off, the slide comes back and throws out the empty case, and shoves a new cartridge from the magazine back into the chamber. Now you're ready to do it over again.

At this point, we're just splitting hairs... [Tooth]

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Originally Posted by IShouldDoThisAllTheTime

A statement which might be taken to support my point!

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Have you ever seen what mud does to the timing on a revolver? I personally have. I've also taken one of my USP's, thrown it in the mud with the slide open, picked it up, chambered a round, and shot the muddy round, and every other one after. I've freaked out a few people doing that actually. I might have to do a video of that......

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Originally Posted by spyder;

You went into detail a lot more in the semi auto.

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Right, that's exactly my point. From a perspective of gross overall mechanical comprehension, there is more going on and more to understand.

Not all newbies get paralyzed with confusion, but enough do to convince me that this is a real issue. Especially if they are also still trying to cope with recoil, noise, any emotional baggage that comes along for the ride, etc. I believe those shooters are probably better served with a 4" J-Frame than with the best most reliable most amazing semi, at least for a little while until they've processed the pile of new information already in front of them.

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Originally Posted by spyder;

At this point, we're just splitting hairs... [Tooth]

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I definitely think we're getting away from the OP's question. Which is about new shooters, not about ideal carry guns. :)

So to try to bring my rambling back to the question at hand: Semi or revolver for the OP's wife?

Have a conversation with *her*. Work with her on her needs and wants. That applies not just to action type, but to caliber, weight, capacity, sight radius, everything. Listen to her concerns and try to sort out what's going to work best for her, and her give plenty of freedom to change her mind along the way. Don't overload her with options or information.

Let her have her own journey of exploration. She is the only one who can make and be comfortable with her choice. Don't steer her toward or away from anything for religious reasons. If she likes the way something feels in her hands, is confident operating it, and can hit her target, what else is there to worry about?

Unless she picks something way off-the-wall crazy like a Nagant M1895, of course. ;)

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Originally Posted by IShouldDoThisAllTheTime

Right, that's exactly my point. From a perspective of gross overall mechanical comprehension, there is more going on and more to understand. There isn't though... That was my point... I've had no problem explaining a semi auto to people, or a revolver...

Not all newbies get paralyzed with confusion, but enough do to convince me that this is a real issue. Especially if they are also still trying to cope with recoil, noise, any emotional baggage that comes along for the ride, etc. I believe those shooters are probably better served with a 4" J-Frame than with the best most reliable most amazing semi, at least for a little while until they've processed the pile of new information already in front of them. This is where we disagree...



I definitely think we're getting away from the OP's question. Which is about new shooters, not about ideal carry guns. :) I thought this was about carry guns, and a new shooter?

So to try to bring my rambling back to the question at hand: Semi or revolver for the OP's wife?

Have a conversation with *her*. Work with her on her needs and wants. That applies not just to action type, but to caliber, weight, capacity, sight radius, everything. Listen to her concerns and try to sort out what's going to work best for her, and her give plenty of freedom to change her mind along the way. Don't overload her with options or information.

Let her have her own journey of exploration. She is the only one who can make and be comfortable with her choice. Don't steer her toward or away from anything for religious reasons. If she likes the way something feels in her hands, is confident operating it, and can hit her target, what else is there to worry about?

Unless she picks something way off-the-wall crazy like a Nagant M1895, of course. ;) Or a Glock.....

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my wife has both a revolver (sp101) and a semiauto (xdm). She usually carries the revolver in an iwb and the xdm for purse carry.

Man, this has spurred quite the discussion.
Guess I should have seen that coming.

Where I grew up there were several public indoor ranges where you could short-term rent to try stuff out. Is there anywhere in the front range (Denver to Ft. Collins) that does that, and has a pretty good selection?

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Originally Posted by bigmyk2k

Man, this has spurred quite the discussion.
Guess I should have seen that coming.

Where I grew up there were several public indoor ranges where you could short-term rent to try stuff out. Is there anywhere in the front range (Denver to Ft. Collins) that does that, and has a pretty good selection?

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You might want to ask in the general discussion main discussions to meet with someone who has both semi's, and revolvers, for your wife to try out. The guys on here are very helpful and love any reason to go out and put some rounds down range. Many have a wide selection of guns to do this with also so you might get real lucky with this. [Beer]

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Originally Posted by spyder

You might want to ask in the general discussion main discussions to meet with someone who has both semi's, and revolvers, for your wife to try out. The guys on here are very helpful and love any reason to go out and put some rounds down range. Many have a wide selection of guns to do this with also so you might get real lucky with this. [Beer]

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Good tip! I'll try to find an opening in the wife's schedule and work something out.[Beer]

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Originally Posted by spyder

You might want to ask in the general discussion main discussions to meet with someone who has both semi's, and revolvers, for your wife to try out. The guys on here are very helpful and love any reason to go out and put some rounds down range. Many have a wide selection of guns to do this with also so you might get real lucky with this. [Beer]

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Yup, good tip. Too bad I just moved away from Longmont, I'd have been happy to meet up and put a pile of stuff in front of you guys. I don't have a USP to show you though. ;)

Check out Front Range Gun Club in Loveland. They have a decent but not huge rental selection, and they are very welcoming to women, not condescending or patronizing; and for the proof in the pudding they do have a pretty active women's shooting league, as well as a couple's league. Friendly folks, and it probably wouldn't be hard to get your hands on a lot of diverse hardware if you ask nicely. Members only, though you can go in twice under their "explorer" program, and their league shoots are open to non-members.

Closer to home, I know of two ranges in Longmont. Trigger Time Gun Club, and the Longmont Police range (which is open to the public). I've never been to either and I don't know what if any rentals they have. Both are on 119 just inside Weld County, on the way to I-25.

I carry a revolver because I like it. I've never been in a self defense situation where I needed more than 5 rounds and intend to keep it that way, so I don't worry too much about ammo capacity or speed of reloading.