Civilian Police officers in Denver?

This should end well. Denver PD wants to replace some positions with civilians.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21...lice-civilians

Am I the only one who thinks of this.
Attachment 15191

Good, I hate Denver anyways,lol

Fine with me. It might save the city some money and won't change much else.

That is an excellent idea and it is long overdue.

DPD needed a chief from the outside for a long time and Chief White is doing great things which would not have been occurred with an internal promotion.

Actually in the Former United States, the police ARE Civilians. Under the Posse Comitatus Act the military is precluded from engaging in law enforcement activities.

[Muaha]

Zund beat me to it. Cops calling other people "civilians" irks me to no end.

Agreed

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Zund beat me to it. Cops calling other people "civilians" irks me to no end.

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Actually in the Former United States, the police ARE Civilians. Under the Posse Comitatus Act the military is precluded from engaging in law enforcement activities.

[Muaha]

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Zund beat me to it. Cops calling other people "civilians" irks me to no end.

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Let me add one more.

I agree that Cops have it rough, and I am Glad they are out there.
They aren't on the other side of the planet sleeping in a hole on the side of a mountain freezing their balls off wondering if the next mortar has their name on it.
There is alot to be said for sleeping in your own bed every night.

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Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

Let me add one more.

I agree that Cops have it rough, and I am Glad they are out there.
They aren't on the other side of the planet sleeping in a hole on the side of a mountain freezing their balls off wondering if the next mortar has their name on it.
There is alot to be said for sleeping in your own bed every night.

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^^^^ This!

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Zund beat me to it. Cops calling other people "civilians" irks me to no end.

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+1 on this one. I seem to hear this frequently and people look at me like I am crazy when I point it out. It especially irritates me when police refer to us commoners as "Civilian" in the context of gun control.

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Originally Posted by Rooskibar03

This should end well. Denver PD wants to replace some positions with civilians. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21...lice-civiliansAm I the only one who thinks of this. Attachment 15191

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Heh, my mom dated Tackleberry in high school.

This has advantages and disadvantages... They both work, but managing the personnel changes between the two. Less flexibility with civilian positions, especially if you need the extra manpower in a time of crisis. Conversely, overzealous micro-managers cannot routinely double task personnel.

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Originally Posted by ChadAmberg

Heh, my mom dated Tackleberry in high school.

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So, could Tackleberry be your dad?

This kind of thing is already happening in colorado springs, except they are replacing some patrol officers with 'community service officers' who respond to nonviolent crime when the suspect is not on scene. They are not sworn and do not carry a gun or a badge. Seems like it will go away after one of them gets assaulted or worse by a suspect that wasn't actually gone.

I guess the Unions don't like it one bit.

I'm sure the unions don't like it but people behind desks don't need as much training and as much pay.

"crime-scene analysts" ? Mybe they could hire this guy. I hear he is very effective:
http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/074/...170x170-75.jpg

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Originally Posted by ronaldrwl

So, could Tackleberry be your dad?

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Heh, that would explain a lot actually, but no...

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Originally Posted by Flatline

This kind of thing is already happening in colorado springs, except they are replacing some patrol officers with 'community service officers' who respond to nonviolent crime when the suspect is not on scene. They are not sworn and do not carry a gun or a badge. Seems like it will go away after one of them gets assaulted or worse by a suspect that wasn't actually gone.

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Douglas County also has a similar program.

Ummm...cops ARE civilians. Those who think otherwise have serious control issues. The military would straight fuck up any police units.

More private control is perfect. TSA should be privatized. Need more police volunteers just like firefighters.

As one who interacts with LEAs, CBI and Crime Scene Technicians, it is probably a good call. The LEO training is not beneficial to many tasks and focused crime lab training would be beneficial. Might even cut down on the coffee and doughnut sales around precints.

Agree, LEOs are just a subset of Civilians, not Military. Still offer them due respect.

For those of you who served, hope you had a great Veteran's day!

Nothing like a bunch of people getting upset about the wording of an article. Jesus. I think the point is they are giving jobs out to non post certified positions for certain jobs in the department like desk jobs that don't need to be criminal investigators which save the department and tax payers money while putting more officers back on the street. In DO CO those non post certified volunteers help block traffic on accidents, wait for tow trucks after accidents, DUI's, and other times when a vehicle might need towing to put the officer back "into service" to respond to the next call. Lone Tree also uses volunteers similarly. And yes, most officers get to sleep in their beds when they do sleep, but may not being doing it at night or on holidays like most other professions.

I think it's a good idea, personally. It'd be nice to interact with people that don't see you with a floating "possible suspect" bubble above your head. I've heard tell of a time when police officers were polite, and just human beings doing their job, but I think it's a myth. It's true that civs aren't going to have the "street" experience of a police officer, but they'll have different perspectives and ideas for that very reason, and sometimes that's what it takes to catch a break. PD's have become too much of a club/clique, and interacting with some normal, non-paranoid people could be good for them.

There's an awful lot of jobs being done by POST certified officers that could easily be handled by "civilian" employees with specialized training. I'm thinking computer analysis, forensics, administrative/PR, just to name a few. Freeing up trained officers to do their jobs instead of dealing with the non-law-enforcement bullshit could only improve their attitudes and their efficiency.

Know a kid who is a volunteer for Denver Police.
He does not get paid, and he does more finger printing stuff.

It might be good for people who wants to have a career with Police department. OR
It might be good for a guy who is running for a city counsel who has a zero community service experience? :D haha

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

And yes, most officers get to sleep in their beds when they do sleep, but may not being doing it at night or on holidays like most other professions.

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I think there are plenty of other reasons to respect police officers for what they do, other than the hours they work. Everyone who works at a restaurant or call center works weekends and ALL holidays as well.

The majority of suburb departments already do this. Positions that take walk-in reports, anything dealing with the media, evidence, records, animal control, code violations, the courts, etc. are all usually non-sworn positions. In my book there are two paths you can take. You are either military or civilian. Cops are civilian but their job requirements and abilities put them into a separate category from virtually any other civilian jobs. Having jurisdictional authority does not equate to a civilian job. So in a way everyone is wrong. Cops get butt hurt because they feel special and want to feel elevated for their career status from "normal citizens." While normal citizens attempt to lower Cops to their level because they feel that Cops don't have any reason to be elevated above them.

LE agencies are para-military organizations by definition.

Most agencies are going to specialized crime scene techs in larger metro areas. Most of these positions require a 4 year degree, typically forensics or criminalistics minors with a bio or chem major.

I don't know of any agency hiring new people for lab positions without a 4 year degree.

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

Nothing like a bunch of people getting upset about the wording of an article. Jesus. I think the point is they are giving jobs out to non post certified positions for certain jobs in the department like desk jobs that don't need to be criminal investigators which save the department and tax payers money while putting more officers back on the street. In DO CO those non post certified volunteers help block traffic on accidents, wait for tow trucks after accidents, DUI's, and other times when a vehicle might need towing to put the officer back "into service" to respond to the next call. Lone Tree also uses volunteers similarly. And yes, most officers get to sleep in their beds when they do sleep, but may not being doing it at night or on holidays like most other professions.

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<<< This Guy worked 17 hours on Veterans Day.

and I think the wording Smacks of thievery, When I Hear a Cop try and include himself among the Military personnel that have Raised their hand, taken the oath defended this nation spending YEARS overseas in combat zones it makes me think of These Guys:
http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-conte...e2-208x300.jpghttp://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-conte...4/Fat-Fuck.jpg


this is not a slight to all Police officers, just the ones trying to ride coat tails

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

Nothing like a bunch of people getting upset about the wording of an article. Jesus. I think the point is they are giving jobs out to non post certified positions for certain jobs in the department like desk jobs that don't need to be criminal investigators which save the department and tax payers money while putting more officers back on the street. In DO CO those non post certified volunteers help block traffic on accidents, wait for tow trucks after accidents, DUI's, and other times when a vehicle might need towing to put the officer back "into service" to respond to the next call. Lone Tree also uses volunteers similarly. And yes, most officers get to sleep in their beds when they do sleep, but may not being doing it at night or on holidays like most other professions.

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I agree Kevin. They get all riled up when an article uses the word "civilian" verses "citizen". It is interesting that most agencies refer to non-police as citizens as in citizen complaint, but it doesn't stop the howling.

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Originally Posted by Lyon

I think it's a good idea, personally. It'd be nice to interact with people that don't see you with a floating "possible suspect" bubble above your head. I've heard tell of a time when police officers were polite, and just human beings doing their job, but I think it's a myth. It's true that civs aren't going to have the "street" experience of a police officer, but they'll have different perspectives and ideas for that very reason, and sometimes that's what it takes to catch a break. PD's have become too much of a club/clique, and interacting with some normal, non-paranoid people could be good for them.

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You DO realize that the people whom would be hired into the positions the article is discussing, you would not have any contact with? They are not going to be out contacting or interviewing people; they will be riding desks and pushing paper somewhere.

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Originally Posted by T-Giv

The majority of suburb departments already do this. Positions that take walk-in reports, anything dealing with the media, evidence, records, animal control, code violations, the courts, etc. are all usually non-sworn positions. In my book there are two paths you can take. You are either military or civilian. Cops are civilian but their job requirements and abilities put them into a separate category from virtually any other civilian jobs. Having jurisdictional authority does not equate to a civilian job. So in a way everyone is wrong. Cops get butt hurt because they feel special and want to feel elevated for their career status from "normal citizens." While normal citizens attempt to lower Cops to their level because they feel that Cops don't have any reason to be elevated above them.

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Agreed. My former agency had non-sworn personnel to take walk in and telephone reports, non-sworn evidence techs and crime scene investigators, records techs, etc. I know Denver has sworn officers in their dispatch, which I can't think of any other agency that also does that.

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Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

<<< This Guy worked 17 hours on Veterans Day.

and I think the wording Smacks of thievery, When I Hear a Cop try and include himself among the Military personnel that have Raised their hand, taken the oath defended this nation spending YEARS overseas in combat zones it makes me think of These Guys:

this is not a slight to all Police officers, just the ones trying to ride coat tails

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So Guy, what then do you make of people like KevDen and I (and others) who have done both; that is, raised our right hand both as part of enlisting into the military and again as law enforcement officers. I've put up with crap doing both jobs, dealt with stupid people, slept in foxholes and backseats, worked long hours and been away from my family for extended periods, missed out on birthdays, anniversaries, special events for both jobs.

As a Law Enforcement Officer in Colorado, it bothers me when fellow LEOs refer to the general public as civilians and they imply they are not. These positions will simply be non P.O.S.T certified positions. I have always been a civilian and will always be a civilian unless we secceed from the union .....

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Originally Posted by strm_trpr

As a Law Enforcement Officer in Colorado, it bothers me when fellow LEOs refer to the general public as civilians and they imply they are not. These positions will simply be non P.O.S.T certified positions. I have always been a civilian and will always be a civilian unless we secceed from the union .....

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I sure wish all of your brethren had this outlook. Civilian policing is worlds away from military enforcement.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

So Guy, what then do you make of people like KevDen and I (and others) who have done both; that is, raised our right hand both as part of enlisting into the military and again as law enforcement officers. I've put up with crap doing both jobs, dealt with stupid people, slept in foxholes and backseats, worked long hours and been away from my family for extended periods, missed out on birthdays, anniversaries, special events for both jobs.

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If you are/were in the Military then you were in the Military, it has nothing to do with some Law enforcement officers elitist mentality of "us and civilians"

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Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

If you are/were in the Military then you were in the Military, it has nothing to do with some Law enforcement officers elitist mentality of "us and civilians"

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But okay for military members to have this elitist mentality of "us and civilians"?

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

But okay for military members to have this elitist mentality of "us and civilians"?

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It's not elitist... it's just the facts. Military is not civilian, police are civilian (hence why they delineate the difference between "Military law enforcement" and "civilian law enforcement.")

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

It's not elitist... it's just the facts. Military is not civilian, police are civilian (hence why they delineate the difference between "Military law enforcement" and "civilian law enforcement.")

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Thanks Ryan. I was asking Guy that question.