"Price Gouging" is a communist term

Whenever there is a "crisis" (be it natural or political) prices of some things go up and go up quickly. This is in essence Adam Smith's Invisible Hand at work. It is both natural and good.

Carping about "Price Gouging" is counter productive and feeds into the same communist thinking that is destroying our culture and economy.


Here's a good little video explaining it (using natural disaster as an example).



And Walter E Williams bit of wisedom on it.



And Thomas Sowell expounds on the problems of "Price Controls" (which is usually what those that demand that the State "do something" about "price gouging" end up with)



And here's a good article by Dr Sowell on Price Gouging.

Thank you Z. You are awesome. [Beer]

But, but, somebody else has something that I want but I can't afford it because they priced it too high!!! That's not fair!!! Bitch bitch bitch whine whine whine.

Thanks for posting. The complaining about being free to conduct commerce in any way one sees fit is getting old fast.

Agreed, Z. Unfortunately, a lot of people on this forum don't, and won't, comprehend this as they're only concerned about what's good for them.

ETA: BTW...Williams and Sowell are two of my modern-day heroes!

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Agreed, Z. Unfortunately, a lot of people on this forum don't, and won't, comprehend this as they're only concerned about what's good for them.

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Hey, this is a Colorado Springs only thread.

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Originally Posted by Sharpienads

Hey, this is a Colorado Springs only thread.

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OH...that explains all the right-wing extremism.

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Originally Posted by Sharpienads

Hey, this is a Colorado Springs only thread.

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So much for asking about "FIRM" price gouging then!!!

[Pop]

Capitalism is also a two way street so if a shop chooses to charge $60 for a $15 item that the manufacturer has stated is still in production and has not increased the price then people can choose to avoid said shop...

History tells us that the word 'fair' has been used many times to bring about certain ideologies and regimes. When your whole outlook on life is based on what's considered to be "fair", then you're in trouble as you're ready to be manipulated.

As I tell my kids all the time, life's not fair, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by rfizzle

Capitalism is also a two way street so if a shop chooses to charge $60 for a $15 item that the manufacturer has stated is still in production and has not increased the price then people can choose to avoid said shop...

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That's correct.

The ONLY people that are suffering from any "gouging" are those that procrastinated. While the CT shooting could not have been predicted, does anyone really think Obama wasn't going to try something in his final term?!

After the ammo shortage post-2008-election, people shouldn't try to sell this as being shocking, it isn't.

Don't have enough Pmags? -they were $9.95 eight days ago, all you could possibly want. What, you figured you'd get 'em later? -how's that working out?

Just glad I'm not looking for an AR right now. My son just called me and told me my grandson just decided (today) he wants an AR for Christmas and where could he find one. I did a search and I see used Colt 6920's and others going for from $2K to $4K.
My son-in-law's father also called and wants to know everything there is to know about AR's, what to look for, what brands, etc., etc. and where to get one.

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Originally Posted by Sharpienads

Hey, this is a Colorado Springs only thread.

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Yay C-Springs!

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

OH...that explains all the right-wing extremism.

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Didn't you see the election results for El Paso County? Obama only got something like 28% of the vote! [LOL]

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Originally Posted by hatidua

What, you figured you'd get 'em later? -how's that working out?

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LOL I don't remember who said it, but it's like running to home depot to buy a fire extinguisher after your house is already on fire... Not going to help.

A shop is free to set its prices however it wants. I'm free to laugh, walk out, and tell people not to bother with that shop.

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Originally Posted by merl

A shop is free to set its prices however it wants. I'm free to laugh, walk out, and tell people not to bother with that shop.

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SOMEBODY who understands capitalism! Congrats!


[Coffee]

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Originally Posted by merl

A shop is free to set its prices however it wants. I'm free to laugh, walk out, and tell people not to bother with that shop.

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And they're free to either listen, or not listen, to your opinion depending on how badly they want the item.

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Originally Posted by hatidua

Don't have enough Pmags? -they were $9.95 eight days ago, all you could possible want. What, you figured you'd get 'em later? -how's that working out?

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You mean like these?

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps3c991461.jpg

I ordered 95 (that's all I could swing or I would've bought more...but I had to save some cash for all the Glock mags I bought as well...[Tooth]) about 3 weeks ago. Before the shooting. I'm saving some for family and a few for me. I'll eventually put the remainder on GB with a starting price of MSRP. I'm going to let the market decide what they're worth.

That's right. I'm all about capitalism and the free market.

http://economics.fundamentalfinance....elasticity.php

After perusing the trading post, I thought this was worth bumping.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

You mean like these?

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps3c991461.jpg

I ordered 95 (that's all I could swing or I would've bought more...but I had to save some cash for all the Glock mags I bought as well...[Tooth]) about 3 weeks ago. Before the shooting. I'm saving some for family and a few for me. I'll eventually put the remainder on GB with a starting price of MSRP. I'm going to let the market decide what they're worth.

That's right. I'm all about capitalism and the free market.

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Wow, do the new Pmags not come with caps?

Apparently not. I never use them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Apparently not. I never use them anyway.

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But what am I supposed to pop when SHTF?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b1...d/f8e86c33.gif

A beer?

Popcorn?

Season 2 of MLP, I guess

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Originally Posted by Ridge

Wow, do the new Pmags not come with caps?

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He purchased the ones made in denver not boulder, hence no caps.

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Originally Posted by jim

He purchased the ones made in denver not boulder, hence no caps.

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But if you held them upside down, wouldn't it be a low cap magazine? I think I just found a loophole!

The MOE version doesn't come with the dust cover...they're priced a little cheaper that way.

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG571/PMAG

Capitalism or not, it's a shitty thing to do in this atmosphere because you're playing off people's fear. When you shout from the rooftops "Everything will be illegal next week, get yours here for the low low price of 4x MSRP!" Manufacturers have not raised prices, so it's an effort to artificially raise prices. Take a look at the Tanner Gun Show, it's well known that sellers have been raising prices as a whole so they can reap maximum profits on the unknowing. When 90% of tables have a similar price, buyers will think that's the value and the sellers hope they don't look online or at the one guy selling for fair value. It's called price fixing in capitalism. If third parties join in, all the better for the originators.

Personally I will not be making any purchases until the credit card bills come due for the panicked in January.

Crying "communist!" when you're called on it is deplorable.

Excellent work Z. I agree 100 percent.

I started getting ready for this prior to the 2008 elections. I didn't sit on my thumbs the last 4 years either. I started reloading and I bought low where I could. Now I get to sit back and watch the circus.

Deus - so ignorance of the market is the fault of the retailer? What a load of FUCKING HORSESHIT!! How about if you people stop watching TV and start paying attention to what is going on around you.

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Originally Posted by DeusExMachina

Capitalism or not, it's a shitty thing to do in this atmosphere because you're playing off people's fear. When you shout from the rooftops "Everything will be illegal next week, get yours here for the low low price of 4x MSRP!" Manufacturers have not raised prices, so it's an effort to artificially raise prices. Take a look at the Tanner Gun Show, it's well known that sellers have been raising prices as a whole so they can reap maximum profits on the unknowing. When 90% of tables have a similar price, buyers will think that's the value and the sellers hope they don't look online or at the one guy selling for fair value. It's called price fixing in capitalism. If third parties join in, all the better for the originators.

Personally I will not be making any purchases until the credit card bills come due for the panicked in January.

Crying "communist!" when you're called on it is deplorable.

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You are obviously quite ignorant regarding the workings of a free market system.

I've seen plenty of sellers list their item for sale for what appear to be inflated prices without hyping the ad with predictions of future doom and gloom. GunBroker is a perfect example. If I list a 10-pack of PMags for a starting price of $199.95 that's $19.95 per magazine. That's not an outrageous price in this climate. MagPul may not have raised prices but that doesn't matter if the product isn't available on the market because MagPul can't meet demand. If someone comes along and sees my listing and bids $199.95, they buy the item...unless someone places a higher bid. If someone bids $225, or $275 or $375, who are you to tell them that isn't right or it's "not fair"? It's none of your damn business what someone wants to pay for an item unless you're involved in the transaction. In this market, both the buyer and seller know, or should know, there's a good chance certain items might not be available at a later date, or if they are, there might be further hoops to jump through or they might not be available in the same configuration.

If I decide to buy/not buy a PMag for $40 today, 4 outcomes are possible:

1. PMag prices decrease because supply increases. I either saved money because I waited or paid relatively more because I bought at today's higher price.
2. PMag prices increase because supply further decreases and I paid a relatively less expensive price by buying today than I would've paid at the later date.
3. Nothing changes from the current price levels and I buy/don't buy at the $40 price later.
4. PMags become unavailable through legislation. I either bought and have some or didn't buy and don't have some.

You may not like how some sellers are handling the current situation and that's your choice. Buying or not buying in this climate is also your choice as is voicing your opinion. But to demonize others for selling what have recently become very hard, if not impossible to get items, for current market value, which is the value someone is WILLING TO PAY, is inappropriate and shows a complete lack of understanding of a lot of variables...political climate, supply and demand, free markets, etc...

And, yes. If you expect some other type of system than what we operate under, some system that might control prices, it's very likely you're talking about some flavor of communism. So, if the hammer and sickle fit...

Your concept of current market value is skewed, because nothing has changed in legislation or production. It's the same as it was two weeks ago. The difference is the doom and gloom sayers and the people buying up all the product so they can flip it, on this forum, on gunbroker, to take advantage. Remember a few years ago when oil speculation caused prices to skyrocket, sending gas well over $4/gallon in some places? That had nothing to do with actual supply or demand, it was investors artificially inflating the market for profit.

It recently came out that LCD retailers did the same thing, but in a more cartel-esque style. They price fixed well above actual cost. If you've bought any kind of electronics in the past 10 years, you were swindled.

Are those two examples fair? Is that a free market when consumers aren't free to pay actual value?

It's funny how some people cried wolf last week, then changed their tune when they listed their $700 AR for $2000, or bought 10 ARs in order to flip them.

I'm sitting back as an observer, because I have no need. I stocked up on PMags when they were $11 each, in bulk. My ARs are all kitted out. I have more than enough handguns, a reloading press, and components to last years. So this isn't whining, just commentary.

And using McCarthyism to shut people up is laughable.

I find it funny you use McCarthy as an example to prove your point. McCarthy was never proven wrong in his overall message about communists in government. As usual his message was drowned out in the hysterics of the left.

I'm not even going to attempt further explanation about how market principles work. You obviously can't, or won't, understand them. Placing blame on "speculators" is laughable, too. We're all speculators in one form or another or at one time or another. I'm participating on a very small scale as a seller. I have a few items I'm moving but not here. I'm using an auction site where people can choose the price they want to pay.

I dearly hope none of the people whining about "gouging" on this site have a single nickel (directly, or through their IRA/mutual funds) in the commodities/futures markets. There isn't an ounce of difference between the commodities market and folks selling pmags for $60+.

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Originally Posted by hatidua

I dearly hope none of the people whining about "gouging" on this site have a single nickel (directly, or through their IRA/mutual funds) in the commodities/futures markets. There isn't an ounce of difference between the commodities market and folks selling pmags for $60+.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by hatidua

I dearly hope none of the people whining about "gouging" on this site have a single nickel (directly, or through their IRA/mutual funds) in the commodities/futures markets. There isn't an ounce of difference between the commodities market and folks selling pmags for $60+.

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There is a HUGE different between selling commodities/futures in the Chicago Mercantile Exchange VS listing firearm/ammo/mag online or retail.
In terms of basic S/D that is fixed, maybe, but in terms of elasticity of supply/demand, dQ, dP, etc, there are HUGE difference.

I can draw 20-30 diagram/run reg/theories that can support it.

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Originally Posted by MrPrena

I can draw 20-30 diagram/run reg/theories that can support it.

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OH! Do it! I wanna see!

Screw all this stuff about the free market. It's real simple.

Who's property is it?

What gives anybody the right to dictate the what a property owner has to do with there own property. It's my property. I'll ask anything I want for it. You don't have to pay.

I'm surprised that the people that talk about gougers aren't also bitching about the hoarders that have more than two mags per person. You can't shoot more than on gun at a time so why does anyone have the right to more than two mags? Or one gun? Those extra mags should be mine! You have no right to that second gun until everyone has one. The prices would come down if you stop the Hoarders. This last few (five) sentences were said facetiously.

Let me explain the Perfect Deal.

The Buyer is Satisfied.
The Seller is Satisfied.
Perfect Deal.
All else is irrelevant.