Flat-top iron sights

I've got a set of Hays Research Hk Style sights on my 9mm AR (Olympic K9GL).

I really like the front sight, but I'm not a fan of the rear sight at all. Mostly because it sits so low, but I also think the drum rifle right isn't appropriate for a pistol-caliber.

What's a good rear right? It should be adjustable for windage and elevation. Ideally compatible with the Hayes Research front sight. Not looking for a long-range precision sight or anything. Fast-and-close CQB. Steel at 25yds, etc.

So far the only one I've found is the LMT Tactical Rear Sight. Any other good options?

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vsp...%20Sight-2.jpg

Mike

I picked up an ARMS 40 knockoff from Canyon Country Tactical at the last Tanner Show...paid $50 out the door, and its decent enough (the mounting screw rattled off after about 60-90rds today at the range, but held tight for the next 100 after tightening it down with a dime...

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1825/dsc0007nl6.jpg

Chop a carry handle? LaRue, LMT, GG&G and a few others make something in line with what you're going for. All said and told you should be able to get something off of barfcom for well below retail. The apparent downside to ARMS BUIS's is that they are spring loaded and don't lock in place when employed. This isn't typically an issue for range fun or what not, but I've moved the two ARMS BUIS I have off the go to AR's and replaced them with Troy's .. and am seriously looking at the new MagPul BUIS sets..

I'm finding most rear BUIS aren't adjustable for elevation.

LMT is the one I mentioned initially. I see YHM has something similar. The LaRue isn't adjustable for elevation. Rear sight doesn't have to be flip-up or anything. I may eventually stick an Aimpoint Micro T-1 in front of it.

Do you have any pictures or details on the Magpul? I'm not in any particular hurry to buy anything.

Mike

Get a Troy BUIS
the best
they don''t move, best apature, etc
arfcom is the place too.

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Originally Posted by JohnTRourke

Get a Troy BUIS

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The Troy rear BUIS isn't adjustable for elevation.

Mike

Arent standard front post sights adjustable for elevation? The guy at the range was adjusting mine yesterday...

I also haven't seen any rear BUIS that are elevation adjustable.That doesn't mean they aren't out there but I haven't seen one yet.

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Originally Posted by StagLefty

I also haven't seen any rear BUIS that are elevation adjustable.That doesn't mean they aren't out there but I haven't seen one yet.

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Well....except for the ones I've mentioned previously in this thread...

Like the LMT and YHM.

Mike

umm, cuz on the AR platform elevation is thru the front sight.
standard or BUIS

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Originally Posted by JohnTRourke

umm, cuz on the AR platform elevation is thru the front sight.
standard or BUIS

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Bzzzt. Wrong answer. Please check anything beyond A1.

Mike

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

Bzzzt. Wrong answer. Please check anything beyond A1.

Mike

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Its how my A3 works...

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Originally Posted by Ridge

Its how my A3 works...

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The beauty of the AR platform is that you can put A1 sights on it if you so desire.

Mike

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

The beauty of the AR platform is that you can put A1 sights on it if you so desire.

Mike

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This is the barrel I use:

http://tinyurl.com/3e5dow

here is one of many references to the difference between A1, A2, A3, A4.

Mike

Rock River Arms has one as well. But yes, most of them are based around A2 Windage/Elevation drums and are as finicky and troublesome as they come.

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

Rock River Arms has one as well. But yes, most of them are based around A2 Windage/Elevation drums and are as finicky and troublesome as they come.

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Thanks. I hadn't seen that one.

So you'd recommend against ANY of the A2-style stand-alone rear sights?

I've got a set of Troy BUIS. I like them well-enough. I just thought a using a rear-sight with adjustable elevation might let me salvage this Hayes Research front-sight.

Mike

You looking for something like this;

B.M.A.S. Flat-Top Fixed Rear Sighthttp://www.bushmaster.com/images/cat...if?IctQual=100This AR15 type fixed Iron Sight offers the option of mounting optics further forward on the flat-top rail. The sight’s base is a heavy, black anodized aluminum block - other parts are steel. Windage and elevation adjustments are 1/2 M.o.A.
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That's the one I got for My build, Thus far I have been real happy with it, and no problems.

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

Thanks. I hadn't seen that one.

So you'd recommend against ANY of the A2-style stand-alone rear sights?

I've got a set of Troy BUIS. I like them well-enough. I just thought a using a rear-sight with adjustable elevation might let me salvage this Hayes Research front-sight.

Mike

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(not ranting at you, but) This is the problem when people see stuff and go 'ohh ahh' and jump on a bandwagon. ARFcommers are notorious about this. Ohh woww... lets all buy this... lets all say its cool cause we have to justify our purchase.... oh wow this really sucks... When Stoner developed the AR, there were certain criteria that had to be met and barrel to sight height was one of them (its a 300yd zero thing and long and involved). You might make a set of same plane sights, but if they don't conform to the original specification, the it leads to wailing and gnashing of teeth (as you've found out).

Having said that, the H&K sight system is good for a certain type of rifle, which the AR is not one of. There were reasons why the original AR had a elevation only front post and a windage only rear sight. Given ammo and ballistics advances in the 20+years, the decision was made to develope the A2 rear drum system to allow for longer shots with a given type of ammo. The problem with the A2 sight is that its inhereantly complex, can get crap in it and its easily knocked out of zero/tampered with.

Given the choice in a fixed, non folding rear, I'd take the cav arms rear any day:

http://www.cavalryarms.com/SARS-1.jpg

If I had to choose a folding rear, I'd probably take the Troy Industries:

http://troyind.com/Images1/rearblkfde.jpg

As far as making either of these work and preserve you HK style front post, I think you're SOL to be honest, since they're same plane BUT lower plane height. None of the flip up rears sights that I can find both Elv/Win adjustment. Sell of those HK sights and buy a set from Troy, Midwest or the company of your choice.

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

If you've got Troy Ind BUIS, stick with what you've got. Whats wrong with the HR front?

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Sorry, I wasn't clear. I've got a set of Troy Ind BUIS on another rifle. So I'm familiar with them. I'd have to buy another set if I wanted them on this carbine as well.

As I stated in my initial post, the Hayes Research sights sit really, really low. Especially the rear sight. It's difficult to crane my neck down to the point I can see through them.

I'm a little fuzzy on the physics involved, but...

I'd like to replace the Hayes Research rear sight and retain the Hayes Research front sight. Since the Hayes Research rear-sight is adjustable for elevation and the Hayes Research front sight isn't, I think I'd like the replacement rear sight to be adjustable for elevation as well.

I'm not at all clear whether I'll have to raise the Hayes Research front sight to be compatible with a "normal" A2-style elevation-adjustable rear sight.

For grins, I stuck a LaRue rear BUIS (obviously not adjustable for elevation) on my receiver and it seemed to line up just fine with the Hays Research front sight. I haven't had a chance to check the zero though.

Mike

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

I'm a little fuzzy on the physics involved, but...

I'd like to replace the Hayes Research rear sight and retain the Hayes Research front sight.

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Ok. Here's the short version.

Not gonna happen. No one else makes a rear BUIS that will line up with that non-standard plane height Hayes front BUIS.

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Originally Posted by michael_aos http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/images...s/viewpost.gif
I'm a little fuzzy on the physics involved, but...

I'd like to replace the Hayes Research rear sight and retain the Hayes Research front sight.

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Think about this for a second. The front sight is in X plane, it's not adustable for elevation (meaning it can't go up and down)
You want a rear sight that goes up and down to match that front sight because your current sight is too low
But even if you get one, where is it going to end up?
That's right, way down low where the other one is.
so, your problem will still be the same.

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Originally Posted by JohnTRourke

[/I]
Think about this for a second. The front sight is in X plane, it's not adustable for elevation (meaning it can't go up and down)
You want a rear sight that goes up and down to match that front sight because your current sight is too low
But even if you get one, where is it going to end up?
That's right, way down low where the other one is.
so, your problem will still be the same.

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Yeah, that's what I figured as well. Thus the discussion.

When I slap a Larue BUIS on there and look through it, everything seems great. I have no idea where it would be shooting though.

Mike

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

Ok. Here's the short version.

Not gonna happen. No one else makes a rear BUIS that will line up with that non-standard plane height Hayes front BUIS.

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I'm not surprised. Figured that was coming.

I might be able to stick it on a little picatinny riser though.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_i...d/ARR-2266.jpg

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

No one else makes a rear BUIS that will line up with that non-standard plane height Hayes front BUIS.

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I expected that.

When I eyeball it, that Hayes Research front sight just doesn't look that much lower than my PRI flip-up or Troy Industries flip-up. Guess it doesn't take much though.

I may mount the Hayes Research and Troy flip-up front on the same rail for comparison.

Mike

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

I expected that.

When I eyeball it, that Hayes Research front sight just doesn't look that much lower than my PRI flip-up or Troy Industries flip-up. Guess it doesn't take much though.

I may mount the Hayes Research and Troy flip-up front on the same rail for comparison.

Mike

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If you're going to measure, get or borrow a set of calipers and measure from the bottom of the mount (the rail top) to the middle of the apeture (rear) or post (front) and compare the measurements. If indeed the Hayes are standard height (which they don't look to be) then the problem is how you're aligning your hat rack to get your sight picture.

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

If you're going to measure

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Maybe after the cat has finished her nap.

http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/...s/IMG_7203.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

If you're going to measure, get or borrow a set of calipers and measure from the bottom of the mount (the rail top) to the middle of the apeture (rear) or post (front) and compare the measurements. If indeed the Hayes are standard height (which they don't look to be) then the problem is how you're aligning your hat rack to get your sight picture.

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From the top of the rail, to the top of the post on the Hayes Research fixed front sight measures pretty much exactly 1.0".

Mike

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

Maybe after the cat has finished her nap.

http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/...s/IMG_7203.jpg

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Well I see that you have a target to zero with already. ;)

Top of my Colt HBAR rail to the middle of the USGI Matech rear sight: 1.30

Yah, you're screwed. Either put both your front and back sights on risers (ugh) or get USGI compliant BUIS.

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

Either put both your front and back sights on risers or get USGI compliant BUIS.

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As I said in the post that started this topic, I don't much care for the rear sight, but I like the front sight.

I was hoping to avoid it, but I fully expected to have to raise the front sight. Knowing I need to raise it .3" is useful. Thank you.

Now back to the topic of a good elevation-adjustable CQB-type rear sight. We've seen there are several options. Is there anything to distinguish one from the other?

Mike

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

Now back to the topic of a good elevation-adjustable CQB-type rear sight. We've seen there are several options. Is there anything to distinguish one from the other?

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No, they all suck equally. I keep telling you that cobbling together non-USGI compliant parts with USGI-compliant parts is a short path to long headaches. But for me, the best thing about beating your head against the wall is that is feels SO good when you stop.

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

I keep telling you that cobbling together non-USGI compliant parts with USGI-compliant parts is a short path to long headaches.

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I'm pretty sure that's the first time you've actually said that.

What I'm actually asking about is a USGI rear sight. Sorry if I wasn't clear each time I said that. A good USGI-height, A2-style rear sight. Lets just forget there's a front-sight in the equation.

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Originally Posted by KellyTTE

No, they all suck equally.

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Simply by virtue of being adjustable for elevation? You'd think in all the years since the military adopted the A2, somebody would have figured it out.

BMAS, LMT, YHM -- all suckage?

http://yankeehill.bizland.com/store/media/YHM-643.jpg

Mike, BMAS=YHM, Least My BMAS has YHM on it. I'll agree with Kelly, for what You want it for it might be the suckage. For what I use it for, casual bang, bang, It works great, like I said, never had a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

Well....except for the ones I've mentioned previously in this thread...

Like the LMT and YHM.

Mike

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OOPS !!!!

For a fixed, always up BUIS I'd go with a LaRue or an LMT.

For a folding BUIS I'd go with the Troy or the new MI low profile. MagPul will be releasing a new one that they showed at SHOT this year, I'd like to try one of those.

I'd avoid the DPMS rear as I had one and had trouble with it.

The ARMS folders are okay if you remember to install them per the instructions and use loctite on them.

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Originally Posted by Roger

For a fixed, always up BUIS I'd go with a LaRue or an LMT.

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I've got a LaRue and it's "just OK".

I'm inclined to try the LMT, especially since it is adjustable for elevation.

http://www.lewismachine.net/images/product/L8A.jpg

outside of the name LMT. my cut down carry handle looks the same and does not move ,it does say RRA on it (does that discount it as a decent rear sight?)


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...m/HPIM0185.jpg

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Originally Posted by michael_aos

I've got a LaRue and it's "just OK".

I'm inclined to try the LMT, especially since it is adjustable for elevation.

http://www.lewismachine.net/images/product/L8A.jpg

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