How would you rate the accuracy of an AR-15 to other bolt action rifles?
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How would you rate the accuracy of an AR-15 to other bolt action rifles?
The AR-15 isn't a bolt action rifle.
Worded it wrong, sorry.
Gas gun accuracy is pretty good these days. Sub-MOA is getting to be the norm from a precision built weapon.
Lets ignore this question. There was a disagreement that has been settled.
The AR platform can be quite accurate.
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Yep... I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Gman
I had read that after optics were being employed on M16/M4 platforms by the military there were so many head shots that it generated an inquiry into possible close-range executions. If a bad-guy is popping his head up in a window and that's your only target, that can happen.
assuming the question is based on the same caliber (.223/5.56) comparing an AR15 platform to a bolt action with the same barrel lengths and twist... this would be a good question.
My CZ 527 .223 is more accurate than any AR I've personally shot, but I'm not trying to put 5 shots through the same half inch hole with my AR... toe to toe, it's more about the barrel and trigger, I'd say.
Weird, I couldn't get that same gun to group worth a damn, unlike the CZ rim fires I own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawin
Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Did yours have the 1:12 or 1:9 twist? Mine's a 1:9 and shoots 50gr v-max like no one's business. It likes the lighter grain bullets the most. 40gr is supposed to be even better out of it, but i've never bothered to buy any since it already shoots better than me, with 50 and 55gr bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker61
1:9 varmint, and I tried 63 and 68 grain. Finally gave up and sold it. My Tikka. 308 shoots sub MOA all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawin
This is in my very near future!Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
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I'm going by memory from something years ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
I'll see if I can dig it up again.
http://www.alcanthang.com/poker/barn.jpg
I can hit it.
You used a shotgun to do that. [Flower] My 5.56 AR's have been 2moa guns with handloads and they are just a normal type. I have seen HP guns that are real 1" guns but then there is a lot of $$$ invested. My new 300 BLK is showing real promise that with handloads it just might be a shooter. I was surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Pook
i can hit it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Pook
(from the inside)[facepalm]
My buddys Grendel shoots .750" groups @ slightly over 100yds. My 16" Wilson barreled gun is getting there. With 55gr PMC its a 2" grouper, with 63/77gr SMK handloads its closer to 1" but I am still working on it.
There is not reason an AR cannot be every bit as accurate as any bolt gun, given attention to detail when assembling it.
On the days where I find that zen spot on breathing and trigger control I've been able to put 5 rounds 1/2" or better at 100 yards, but that is using a 1:7 18" noveske spr barrel and mk262 mod1. My other rifle has a DD 16" 1:7 and it will do MOA all day long on SS109
Both of these rifles shoot better than I can
The bolt will always be more accurate IMHO. Less moving parts so better mechanical repeatability which equal better consistency. Accurate and consistent are two different things.
Most AR's can't hit the side of a barn, PM me and I'll be happy to trade you my sub moa chipmonk 22LR for your AR.
Cheers,
Tim
Its all in the brass baby...Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrymrc
Sorry, jim, still haven't found the source. I have found multiple references on the web that refer to Marines with ACOGs in Iraq being investigated for performing executions due to the high number of headshots, but ballistics and witnesses verified that they were at range. It was around 2004. I'm still looking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HdZ6...D7F44E9AB9A9BF
At about 4:26 seconds is the reference I was describing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
I've actually been thinking about this lately and wondering if turning off the gas (manual cycling) would have any noticeable affect on accuracy, particularly at long-range...
Might improve velocity but likely wouldn't do much for accuracy.
Bolt gun has a higher potential for precision. If you're going to cycle manually, might as well use a bolt action rifle.
Watched a friend do sub MOA with 68gr SMK handloads in a Wilson. Ragged holes @ 100yds with a 10x optic.
My thought was that if it did end up providing some benefit, it only takes a few seconds to adjust the gas and I could just turn it off if the need arose. Was more of a curiosity point than anything really...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
My LWRC REPR (308) shoots Sub MOA with 168 & 175 grain rounds. I have had it shoot just under 1/2 MOA in a 5 shot group before at the indoor range.
This will beat many bolt guns... http://www.lesbaer.com/223varmint.html
Their 308 semis have the sameQuote:
We'll guarantee that our Super Varmint Model will shoot 1/2 MOA groups!
I'm not convinced there's any practical difference in accuracy between an off-the-rack AR and an off-the-rack bolt gun. Maybe for a very small percentage of really good shooters...but for the average/above average shooter? Probably negligible.
Most guns are far more capable than most shooters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
Unless we are talking high ends like an AI, McMillan, etc. I would say your average bolt gun is a 1 moa rifle, and a quality AR should be close.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
MOA or sub-moa AR's at 100 yard are not necessarily still moa guns when you stretch them out to 500-600 yards either. If all you want is good groups at 100 yard then its a pretty easy recipe. At 800 yards and beyond things change dramatically.
Depends on the AR. My Sabre, 1:7 CL medium-contour barrel will put almost any 68-69gr Black Hills round into MOA-ish, and 2 MOA with PMC 55gr .223.
My old just-as-good-as-a-Colt Bushmaster sucked so badly, I could throw the damn thing down the stairs and miss the basement floor. (It also was a bolt-action, mostly because of the fine stake job on the gas key.)
My Colt 6721(?) converted-into-an-SPR (before I got it) with a 1-9" 16" barrel shoots close to MOA out to 400 yards, and 1.5 out to at least 600. I was going to rebarrel it to make it a proper SPR but it shoots so darn good I just couldn't make myself do it; I'd take it out and ring a 6" steel target all day at 400 yards, with white box winchester 5.56. Now, you take my Colt HBAR Match Target pre-ban 1/7" with freefloat tube and 1/4 minute sights and it most definitely will NOT do this with this ammo. Not quite on subject; but I had a Korean-era M1 Garand from the CMP that shot MOA at 300 yards with Greek surplus ammo too. There are some kick-butt semi-autos out there, and not all of them are high dollar pieces. Sometimes you just get lucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by centrarchidae