http://kdvr.com/2013/01/21/phil-mick...er-retirement/
Just check out the comments. It's crazy how many comments are on there (270 last I checked). Not much middle of the road either. When success is looked down upon, you're royally screwed.
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http://kdvr.com/2013/01/21/phil-mick...er-retirement/
Just check out the comments. It's crazy how many comments are on there (270 last I checked). Not much middle of the road either. When success is looked down upon, you're royally screwed.
If we ended the biased and insane practice of artificially calling investment income not regular income, then the taxes on everyone else would not need to be raised to make up for those losses. Today we have over half of the income in America as investment dividends. Since that has been reclassified as different than work income, it is not subject to taxes like everyone else is. We live under a two tier tax system where the wealthy and the powerful don't pay like their "subjects"/normal workers.
I am sorry, but billion dollar earning bankers should pay taxes like every other American. Income is income.
Taxes are going up because the rest of us are losing income earning and the investment class is taking it all and pay next to no taxes either.
Yea I saw that and comments really made me think. How would those same people feel if they won the lottery and had to give over half of it to the government?
basically taxes are rising because over 50% of income is now classified as dividends income. So the pie of what can be taxed is shrinking. So taxes have to go up. We could cut everyones taxes (except the dividend earners) by ending that artificial gov creation. Income is income. I don't want to subsidize bankers and make a Dr or you pay more to subsidize wallstreet parasites.
They were taxed on the income that they earned to put into the investment. Investment is a risk. You can win or you can lose. It's a risk/reward proposition. If you want to take away any incentive to investment, there goes the economy. There goes the jobs.
Investment isn't about "rich people". I'm not rich, but I invest in a 401K so that I can maybe someday retire.
Since when did the desire to become rich become such a bad thing? Why the class warfare? Taking money out of the private sector and putting it into the public sector (i.e. government) isn't good for anyone, no matter where it comes from. Going after the wealthy gains you what? That's right, NOTHING!
...but I'm seeing how your thinking would have you voting for Obama.
Increasing taxes solves nothing but feeding the government monster. This government is so addicted to spending that increasing taxes barely slows the hemorrhaging. You can't tax your way back to prosperity because higher taxation is a disincentive to higher earnings. Every time the federal government has reduced taxes to stimulate the economy it has worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
I *might* agree with you for the first time ever.
nynco... STOP! You sound like every single idiot liberal on this subject. If you don't know how it works, don't assume shit. First, most investments are made with ALREADY TAXED INCOME- it would be retarded to tax people twice on the same money... Second, people tend to spend what they make, it's not like the millionaires and billionaires just stuff $100,000 in their mattresses every month. You make $50K a year you buy a house that you can afford, then pretty much spend the rest on what is commensurate to your income. You make $2M a year, you buy a house you can afford and spend nearly all the rest on various things as well.
Nynco, have you ever purchased stock before? If so, did they let you use pre-taxed income to do so? No, that's not how it works.
Income is income is income. I don't care if you think it was a risk. Earning a college degree is a risk. Crossing the street to go to work is a risk. Man up...
Income is income. Stop making working people subsidize wallstreet.
Not picking sides here, but what about a Roth IRA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Bulls, wallstreet is subsidizing the working class. As an investor my investment has paid people salaries, payroll tax, others' ss & medicaid tax and so on. My profit in my investment is a miniscule compare to the investment and the risk I take. Furthermore, my dividend is POST corporate tax. My gain has been taxed more than twice, and now you say it's not fair? Why don't you open your own business before you open your mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
You want to go after tax dodger, why don't you focus on giant corporate such as GE which under this administration is getting plenty of tax and investment incentives. Why dont you go after all the scamming green energy companies who filed bankruptcy after paying themselves big fat bonuses.
The rich already pay more, significantly more than their fair share. If the guy making $50K had to pay for his fair share of the local, state and Federal government services, he would not be able to buy a cheeseburger. Infrastructure ain't cheap. We all drive on the same roads and have the same emergency services.
The cost to fight a fire in a $200K house is more than in a $10M house that has a fire suppression system, alarm system, etc., but the guy with the $10M house is paying 30 to 40 times on the property tax.
These little facts that get lost in the rhetoric...
I don't think any form of income should be taxed any different. We are currently making middle class people pay a higher taxrate than hedge fund managers. This inturn cause countless other problems in our economy and gov. It incentivizes gambling and not investing in sound businesses.
What I would do is make losses deductible from income to cover your "risk" and then make losses in the dollar over time to inflation deductible over the time of the initial investment. The last one is key because it would stop all the manipulations of the CPI (consumer price index or rate of inflation). Currently the CPI has been manipulated by the bankers and the gov they own to never show the true rate of inflation anymore. This makes it easier for them to never give you a raise (because most people don't get it) and to allow the gov to never keep SSI payments at the true cost of living change. If the CPI effect wallstreet like mainstreet, then we would get the truth. If we use the metrics used in the 1960s to measure inflation, inflation would be shown to be in the double digits for over 2 decades. Not the fantasy they sell us.
ROTH is post tax. So per nynco, you need to pay much more tax on the gain again despite the fact. This will shut down wallstreet and foreign investment overnight. That libtard really can make my monday.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
I guess this place changed a bit in my absence. [Stooge]
Then push for flat tax. Oh wait.. that aint fair per the left. The system is originally designed to encourage growth - however corrupted, it is still doing what it's designed to do. Anything extreme is bad.. extreme growth typically = corruption.. Nevertheless, what you are purposing sounds like 'the great leap forward,' fair taxation and workers' rights. We know how that turned out.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Money is taxed twice all the time. So that tired mime about taxing it twice just does nothing to move me. Yes the rich pay more in taxes. So WHAT? The top 1% have more wealth than the bottom 90% combined. So them complaining that they pay more than 50% of the taxes (no where close to 90%) just proves my point. America is faltering because we have created this tax mess where the wealthy are like kings who get over.
So more government tax mess is the answer. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Our system is NOT designed to encourage growth, it is designed to encourage short term gain over long term viability and health. Please tell me why in the heck we give taxbreaks to companies that ship production overseas? IS that designed to do this nation long term good? Please tell me why a banker should get a lower taxrate than a small business owner? All it does is reward gambling. Gambling that nearly destroyed our economy. We need to raises taxes on dividends to the same level as everyone else. Then investors would invest for the long term instead of going for the quick dollar regardless of long term health of the nation. Eating your legs may make you less hungry but tomorrow you may need to run.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
No treating all income the same is the answer, I would lower taxes on workers and raise the taxes on investors to the same level. No more punishing hard work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
It's the whole liberal mentality.. take take take. Why did you even bother showing up at the gun rally? Let them take your right away. If I am successful I need to be punished more than the fucking lazy bastards who drives a 5 series to pick up milk at WIC and bitching about lowered food stamps because of deflation? Fuck no.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
I am helping a 'poor' single mom right now - obviously I cannot disclose too much details, but she came to me to ask to defer her foreclosure because she cannot afford her $2400/month mortgage payment. Meanwhile, her gross income also shows $500 in food stamps. She gets EIC and tax credit upto $15000 a year due to the number of children. The husband/live in boyfriend will not work because they are afraid to lose their welfare craps. Both of them never paid taxes in their life... they will always show net gain even after property tax, sales tax and so on. Do I feel sorry for these kind of guys that you tard champion equal treatment for? Fuck no!
take take take... are you kidding me. I am advocating for every one to pay the same. Why are you advocating for a free ride while punishing an honest days work. That is the take take take mentality there.
Your disdain for welfare for the poor is hollow when you call for welfare taxrates for the investor class.
If the government was doing what its charter instructed it to do, i.e. The US Constitution, we wouldn't be here. The reason we need these tax schemes (that are now longer than the Bible) is that it has gone way too far. Going further is not the answer.
We have a progressive tax code where the wealthier pay more, but that's not good enough for you.
We need a whole lot less government right now, not more money funneled into it.
nynco sounds like the majority of those people that helped get King Oberxes put into power for 4 more years, "The rich are causing this woe!" False. They make up a small percent of the population, they pay over 60% of the taxes, AND are continuously getting hit with tax hikes. What would fix it is to reduce spending, reform entitlements (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and especially welfare), and if EVERYONE really did pay their "fair share" (no more of this exempt from income tax while making $20K crap) we wouldn't have to raise taxes...
I am both a small business owner and licensed banker. You have no clue what you are talking about. When you can get out of your comfort zone and invent/start a small business then beg for strangers' money to get your dream off the ground, then maybe you understand the kind of risk you are talking about. Stop changing the subject too. You are all over the place. Gambling = taking risk..and like you said.. even crossing the street is a risk. Your hypocrite is emerging.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Ronin who owns our gov? Who pays for all these screwed up laws? It ain't the welfare lady who is pinching a penny for a taco. So yea, the wealthy that buy our elections need to be called out for what they actually do.
The reason the taxcode is so long is because all those mega amounts of rules and clauses benefit those who have the most wealth already. This is why GE pays no taxes and why small business owners do.
So to be fair.. advocate for FLAT RATE tax. Why wouldn't that be fair?Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
I might be mistaken here, but did you just define the welfare system?Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
How in the heck are you laughably calling me a hypocrite when I am calling for the same taxrate for all forms of income. Talk about projection. Look in the mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
Corporate welfare is 4 times larger than all the other forms of welfare combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
I would like to hear a logical response to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
How convenient, he uses small business owners against giant corps, and sometimes flips to 'workers' against business owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
So.... that's a yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Come on, here. Did you ever take high school economics?Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Corporations don't pay taxes. Taxes are passed along to consumers in the form of higher prices.
Do they even teach that in schools these days?
I would end corporate welfare too. I personally don't get angry at the uber poor for wanting food money. If we had an economy with plentiful jobs that paid a living wage, I would be all for ending welfare. But instead we have a taxcode that ships jobs to China for a taxbreak. So pardon me if I don't care about a mother trying to feed her kids.
Still waiting...Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerI would like to hear a logical response to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
Oh, you're tugging on my heartstrings now! Maybe that mother should have made responsible choices. No, I'm not kidding. Time to grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Another broken tired mime. All taxes are passed along all over the place. The only thing that is passed along to consumers is the same thing that everything else deals with. What lower tax rates do is pass along more profit to wallstreet. Because the free market sets the prices not taxes. The free market sets what people will pay for something. No businessman ever lowered prices to make up for a taxbreak. No what they did was see what people were willing to pay, keep it at that level and pocket the profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
FLAT TAX, you meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Don't be an jerk. My parents are great people who are nothing like what you claim. My father still works to this day to pay for his cancer treatments. My mother the same. He is an engineer and she is a teacher. So please kindly Go F yourself and leave my parents out of your hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
As mentioned numerous times.. you have no clue whatsoever. When a business person receives a tax break, 99% chance he/she will reinvest the saving for growth rather than paying more tax (at supposedly lower tax break rate) on a higher profit. It's only logical. This growth in turns will result in higher tax revenue. Bush tax cut resulting in over 40% tax revenue growth. Reagan's tax cut had the same result. Hell even your president agreed on his first term and extended it. The conservatives tend to have this willingness to 'progress' and grow. The progressive on the other hand only understands 'take take take.' The irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Most libtards dont get it. Unless you run your own business, stop making stupid assumptions.