Buying American is it really worth it?

I am no longer allowed to comment on the Jeep vs Toyota thread, I guess I might of gotten off subject or something. Anyway I would like a to debate the merits or not of buying American made (if possible) vs Foreign made, I would like to keep it respectful and just learn if I'm wrong about the way I think. I just think it would be better in the long run if we would buy American made cars from American based companies (for the record I think it is BS that the big three have Mexican and Canadian assembly plants) I just can't understand the loyalty to Japanese and Korean cars. I understand I could be wrong and don't know global economics that's why I am asking

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i have no loyalty when buying used items but when it comes to new i try to buy american

Toyotas are awesome. They'll run like a top for years with minimal maintenance work. It's pretty simple. The big three got a bad rep here in American over the past decade or so while companies like Toyota, Hyundai, Honda seemed to step their game up. The domestics seem to be getting a little better these days and I still like the American full sized trucks. The notion that we should buy American just because "it's American" is ridiculous and is probably why they lost so much steam. They assumed people would keep buying them and their quality went down hill as they cut corners or stopped innovating. It doesn't mean I'll never buy "American", just not until they can offer the same value/quality product that these other companies are putting out there.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

I only buy American, if its possible. I have never owned a foreign car. Even if the foreign car was built here. I realize because of outsourcing and UNION bullshit, its not quite so clear cut about who you are helping. But, for me I buy American. Not assembled in me hico, not jap company building in Tennessee. I dont expect others to do what I do. But, I can live with myself knowing I live by my own set of morals. And I stick to them.

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Exactly the way I think buy American (made and assembled) its gotta help plus I believe our quality is now equal to if not above Japanese or especially Korean cars

It comes down to a perception of quality. The big 3 burned alot of bridges in the late 70's and 80's when they made cars that were mostly crap. They've closed alot of the "quality gap" but Toyota and Honda still have great reputations for being reliable cars. I bought a Dodge Dakota new and it took three trips to the dealer to get them to find the poorly machined throttle body that was whistling. Contrast that with the Honda Civic I had that just ran and ran and ran. I still kick myself for letting my exwife keep it. I don't understand the Korean car love, but I will say I've been tempted by them - lots of features at a low price and they're assembled in Alabama.

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Originally Posted by Haroldlutsen

I just can't understand the loyalty to Japanese and Korean cars. I understand I could be wrong and don't know global economics that's why I am asking

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my Honda has over 255k in the last three years it has needed a battery and front pads

my gmc has 132k on it since October it has needed
pads
rotors
calipers
hubs
water pump
thermostat
plugs
wires
coil
front diff
transfer case switch
front axle actuator

plus it leaks every fluid it has in it
(I still love my truck)

my ex girlfriend owned a 07 elantra she bought the car new when I met her it had 60k on it I beat the shit out of it for another 20k one day I asked when she had last changed the oil.....she hadn't she was under the assumption it was supposed to be changed at 100k you should have seen the sludge that came out of it....that car is still running around today just fine it's like a fucking ak47

we will only buy Japanese or Korean for our daily drivers they are built far superior to American and German.....and at the end of the day isn't that what capitalism is about? the best stuff does well the junk dissent?

The profits go to the parent company. We don't talk about the trade deficit much anymore, but far more leaves this country than what is brought back.

There are very few imports that I like. I absolutely hate the look and feel of Asian cars; there is not one thing positive I can say about that crap. I can tolerate some of the European cars especially their current diesel technology.

I purchased American cars for the past 25 years because I like them! I like small and big block muscle cars, diesel trucks, and luxury cruisers. Every car I have purchased served me well because I buy the stuff they do well and stay away from they stuff they don't.

Although, I don't think is really going to matter much longer. The dollar is going to come crashing down and we as a country won't be able to buy foreign goods anyway.

Toyota is far more american then ford. ;) I think the only truly american american car is the corvette...

Nice chart Ashton... I knew that the Spartanburg BMW plant put out the X-SUVs, they used to make the Z3 and Z4 there as well- except for one caveat, the engines are designed, built and then shipped from Bavaria, Germany, keeping the German "soul" of BMWs assembled here. For the record- when it comes to most things I do try to be patriotic and buy American- my AR, shotgun, and Sig (sort of, N.H. plant but German-ish company) are all American, my 1911 is made in Brazil (Springfield), my AK is from Romania, and my Glock is from Austria. Sure I drive a German car, but most of what I buy, weather it's made here or elsewhere, I buy from American retailers and distributors, thus paying American wages. But I don't need to proudly display that I "only buy 'Merican," I feel I've done enough for my country and don't need to justify to anyone my level of patriotism.

I buy the best I can afford.

For most manufactured goods made since the early 1970s that means you're not buying American.

That said I drive an "American" made Chrysler (I put American in scare quotes because it's actually made in Mexico). But honestly if I didn't have an extremely frugal wife I'd probably drive nothing but German cars (and old ones at that).

As for buying American being some sort of patriotic duty, that's bushwah ... buying American made products more often than not lines the pockets of some Marxist labor union that ends up sending the profits to the Democrats and I can't think of anything more un-american than that.

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Originally Posted by cofi

my Honda has over 255k in the last three years it has needed a battery and front pads

my gmc has 132k on it since October it has needed
pads
rotors
calipers
hubs
water pump
thermostat
plugs
wires
coil
front diff
transfer case switch
front axle actuator

plus it leaks every fluid it has in it
(I still love my truck)

my ex girlfriend owned a 07 elantra she bought the car new when I met her it had 60k on it I beat the shit out of it for another 20k one day I asked when she had last changed the oil.....she hadn't she was under the assumption it was supposed to be changed at 100k you should have seen the sludge that came out of it....that car is still running around today just fine it's like a fucking ak47

we will only buy Japanese or Korean for our daily drivers they are built far superior to American and German.....and at the end of the day isn't that what capitalism is about? the best stuff does well the junk dissent?

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My brother's '95 4Runner:

He did the maintenance at 90k (timing belt and water pump) brakes and shocks + all the factory required maintenance intervals.

At 133K, two cylinders were dead. I am the one who pulled the heads...two burnt valves. The machinist mentioned that my brother was one of the lucky ones...usually the heads are cracked on this 3.0 POS.

I also did the timing belt, water pump, clutch, and CV shaft that was trashed.

Not to mention that the company didn't put a strong enough blower in the vehicle to actually defrost the entire front windshield. All four 4Runners that my brother owned 90, 92, 94, and 95 could only defrost half the front windshield.

Yep, great vehicle!

I have owned a total of 8 Jeeps in the last 20 years. Then I bought an Audi... and now I have a Toyota..

I'm never going back to Jeep ever again. HORRIBLE service in Colorado and they were always broken down.

The Audi I absolutly loved -- while it was in warranty. But as soon it was out of warranty everything was 1k or more to fix and it had to be done RIGHT NOW OR EVERYONE WILL DIE A HORRIBLE PAINFUL DISEASE..

With the Toyota everything just works. Runs great. No issues with service -- and the resale value its awesome.

I have stopped the whole buy American thing since when I buy something I want quality and do not want to
waste my money. Most "American" companys have their shit made elsewhere and put the made in America label.

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I'll never buy another "new" GM product ever again. And it has nothing to do with "quality".

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Originally Posted by asmotao

The Audi I absolutly loved -- while it was in warranty. But as soon it was out of warranty everything was 1k or more to fix and it had to be done RIGHT NOW OR EVERYONE WILL DIE A HORRIBLE PAINFUL DISEASE..

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This. I made the mistake of buying an audi a few years ago. It is great until the warranty expires and then it is just stupid to repair. Needless to say I will be making the switch away from this "wonderful" german car this year. I will be looking for a Tundra or a Ram 1500 in its place.

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Originally Posted by Dave_L

Toyotas are awesome... They assumed people would keep buying them and their quality went down hill as they cut corners or stopped innovating. It doesn't mean I'll never buy "American", just not until they can offer the same value/quality product that these other companies are putting out there.

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Originally Posted by Inconel710

The big 3 burned alot of bridges in the late 70's and 80's when they made cars that were mostly crap...I don't understand the Korean car love, but I will say I've been tempted by them - lots of features at a low price and they're assembled in Alabama.

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My thoughts pretty much. As for Hyundai/Kia, the new Optima is sick, amazing car loaded with features, and is a very nice looking sedan, for CHEAP.

Ford HAS indeed been stepping up to compete. I'm very impressed by the latest Explorer and Fusion, they're some badass looking vehicles with all the bells & whistles.

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Originally Posted by griebel303

This. I made the mistake of buying an audi a few years ago. It is great until the warranty expires and then it is just stupid to repair. Needless to say I will be making the switch away from this "wonderful" german car this year. I will be looking for a Tundra or a Ram 1500 in its place.

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Originally Posted by cofi

my Honda has over 255k in the last three years it has needed a battery and front pads

my gmc has 132k on it since October it has needed
pads
rotors
calipers
hubs
water pump
thermostat
plugs
wires
coil
front diff
transfer case switch
front axle actuator

plus it leaks every fluid it has in it
(I still love my truck)

my ex girlfriend owned a 07 elantra she bought the car new when I met her it had 60k on it I beat the shit out of it for another 20k one day I asked when she had last changed the oil.....she hadn't she was under the assumption it was supposed to be changed at 100k you should have seen the sludge that came out of it....that car is still running around today just fine it's like a fucking ak47

we will only buy Japanese or Korean for our daily drivers they are built far superior to American and German.....and at the end of the day isn't that what capitalism is about? the best stuff does well the junk dissent?

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Well I have 350k or maybe more on my american made dodge cummins I prefure to buy used. I find it verry wasteful to buy new products when there is nothing wrong with our old products. By the way if you look at your VIN at the first numeral if its a 1 its usa 2 is japan 3 is mexico

The most "Made In America" automobile is the Toyota Camry. It has more American components and and the most American labor of any current vehicle...

I lived near both GM and Chrysler plants for years. I know so many friends and relatives who built all your American cars. Based on the amount of drugs and drinking AT WORK, I have a hard time even riding as a passenger, and will never own one. Politically, I'd consider a Ford, I just don't like the ghetto styling they've had lately. Then again, politically, I will not support any union if I can possibly help it.

It's funny though, most (but not all) of the American car drivers think its OK to go for service a couple times a year, and that's "reliable". I'm not talking oil change, I'm talking getting things fixed that are broken. My track record with 7 or 8 Japanese or Korean cars over the past 20 years: replaced struts on once car, an engine computer reprogram to make it work better at altitude, a sunroof was adjusted, and reapplied the glue holding the rear view mirror onto the windshield. There you go.

"Worth" -- like beauty -- is in the eye of the beholder. I considered my Sebring the best value for the money in a convertible when I bought it in 1999. Today's models are overdesigned and cost too much to overcome the quality gap.

When it came time to replace my SUV, I considered Toyota but it really came down to the Ford Expedition EL or GMC Suburban due to the passenger and payload space I desired for my Scout activities. Nobody else really makes something that carries 8 people plus equipment without having to go to some kind of van.

For what it's worth today, I refuse to buy Government Motors over issues other than price and quality.

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I stick to my gm vehicles whenever i buy new...which is every couple years.

I have had a couple hondas and a volkswagon and liked them well enough.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

I can tell you no jap makers make vehicles big enough for six or more car seats and two adults. hell, most manufacturers dont make a big enough vehicle for us. not even suburban or excursion.

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I refuse to buy or deal with libtards + bailout giants such as citi bank/AIG/GM. Foreign products being sold in the US creates US jobs. A $2 tshirt made in China is sold here for $20 retail. There are still few hundred percent markup between wholesaler and retail to benefit all of us locally.

I've been Jeep guy for the last 15 or so years - owned nothing else. Now they are going to made in China? [facepalm]

I've had great luck with the good old Cherokees, a ZJ Grand and my 99 TJ that I still drive daily. The WJ's...not so much. Basically, every one that I've owned that had the 6 cyl. in it just ran and ran. The V8 can suck it.

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Originally Posted by two shoes

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Hell yeah! I need that. I am sure I can get the wife's buy in....

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

i can guarantee that wont fit 6 car seats. just because they say they seat 8 doesnt mean you can get that many car seats in it. plus , we arent done.


we know alot of big families and they have tried every jap and American car trying to fit that many car seats in. Alot of them dont want to go to a full size Van.

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LOL.. what's your goal? You better start building extra ARs for the incoming :)

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I love my Filson clothing. I love my Jeeps. I love my Dogfish Head 120min IPAs. I love my Kimbers. I love my Texas BBQ. I hate H D noise buckets.

I will never buy a vehicle based on sympathy or patriotism. I will always buy based on what best fits my current needs.

Loyalty, Patriotism and Ethics are long gone when it comes how people choose to live, much less their purchasing decisions. The VAST majority of people, Americans included, do what they "feel" is best for them. Yes, it is often selfish, short sighted and hollow, but that is the Amreica we now live in.

If I can, I buy products from US companies, with US workers with US sourced materials. If I can buy from a Colorado company, all the better. When we started Carbon Arms, we had some tough decisions to make. But, everything we produce is US made by US citizens with US materials. It costs more, but that is how we roll.

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Originally Posted by Haroldlutsen

I am no longer allowed to comment on the Jeep vs Toyota thread, I guess I might of gotten off subject or something. Anyway I would like a to debate the merits or not of buying American made (if possible) vs Foreign made, I would like to keep it respectful and just learn if I'm wrong about the way I think. I just think it would be better in the long run if we would buy American made cars from American based companies (for the record I think it is BS that the big three have Mexican and Canadian assembly plants) I just can't understand the loyalty to Japanese and Korean cars. I understand I could be wrong and don't know global economics that's why I am asking

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This is what I don't understand about you. In the thread yesterday, you said you were a union worker here in the US. It would seem then that your alliance would be with the worker that lives in here America. While GM and Ford, and now more increasingly Chrysler (which can you even say is an American car company anymore?) outsource their production around the world, costing American jobs, yet you have loyalty to the emblem on the car, regardless of where it was made. The management decided to move production outside our borders, but you still consider a Mexican made truck with the letters GMC on it to be an American product and you still have allegiance to the company that outsourced American jobs.

Enter the foreign owned companies. The create jobs here within the U.S. But somehow you don't think this is a benefit to the United States, and you can't conceive that a Camry, Accord, or Outback are more American than that Mexican GMC Sierra.

Does it really matter where the money to the parent company goes to the man building a Subaru in Indiana? No, it matters that he's at work, building a product that GM decided it would be better to build in Mexico.

Or, is your problem, as you've described yourself as a union member, a dislike that the foreign companies pay a decent wage to the American worker while producing a superior product without union labor in most instances?

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

i can guarantee that wont fit 6 car seats. just because they say they seat 8 doesnt mean you can get that many car seats in it. plus , we arent done.


we know alot of big families and they have tried every jap and American car trying to fit that many car seats in. Alot of them dont want to go to a full size Van.

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Yeah, it doesn't work if you're talking about car seats. I can take 7 passengers in my Expedition EL (and do) as long as the 2 of the 3 in the back row are really small or skinny but I think you could only get 2 car seats in that row. I know it gets cramped in there when I'm ferrying 7 passengers but that's not my problem. [LOL]

Kind of amazing to think you've got six all at the age of needing car seats though ... the wife must be a saint!

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Originally Posted by GilpinGuy

I've been Jeep guy for the last 15 or so years - owned nothing else. Now they are going to made in China? [facepalm]

I've had great luck with the good old Cherokees, a ZJ Grand and my 99 TJ that I still drive daily. The WJ's...not so much. Basically, every one that I've owned that had the 6 cyl. in it just ran and ran. The V8 can suck it.

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I had that 4.0L High Output engine in my Cherokee...that's one of the best engines ever invented. Easy to work on and damn near bulletproof. I miss my Cherokee...

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

The most "Made In America" automobile is the Toyota Camry. It has more American components and and the most American labor of any current vehicle...

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I'm sure that's probably correct good pr move by Toyota advertise "most American content and labor" while still sending profits back to Japan, It probably is good economic sense for them using our raw materials and labor and get to keep profits for themselves. Also I never have disputed they're overall quality probably started the culture it is "ok" to buy foreign I just think ford gm and Chrysler have caught up and if we quit buying Toyotas and Kia etc, we would need more Chevys and fords