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http://www.examiner.com/article/eric-holder-and-homeschooling-channeling-the-prussian-system?cid=rss
Personally, I have never been a fan of homeschooling, but if one of the parents has a degree in Education and their child can pass an annual standardized test I support their right to homeschool if they wish.
You think it's OK only if a parent has a degree in Education?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
Yes, public education has done such a great job. Home Schooled children consistently score ahead of their public school peers. Plus, most of the kids I have dealt with have LEARNED TO THINK. Not just learned what to think. The public education system is a drain on tax dollars and produces sub-par results.
Most public school high school teachers (according to multiple studies) are barely ahead of their students. If you were to take away their teacher's guides, they would fail. What education exactly does a public school teacher have, besides the piece of paper. ( not including ones specially educated in certain fields.)
And Eric Holder can fuck off.
My college educated, previously homeschooled niece disagrees with your need for her mother to possess a degree in Education prior to homeschooling her children.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
Homeschooling can be abused, as can public schools, but when it's done right I don't believe there's a better option.
Yeah I don't see a reason why one would need a degree in education in order to home school their kids.
I've spent 20 years of my life attending schools in one form or another with a good mix of public and private institutions from kindergarten through a doctorate degree. If I learned anything in that time, it was that an education degree does not a good teacher make!
It boggles my mind that the federal government thinks it has the power to mandate that parents *send* their children to a designated, government-approved building to be re-educated (woops, I mean educated).
I don't have children, but I'm pretty sure the government and I would not see eye-to-eye regarding how they ought to be raised and the lessons to be taught/learned along the way!
RWW
Vee shall teach zee child, vee vant zee child to meet our specifications.
Home schooling teaches a child to be independent.
Can't have that now can we?
Do we see yet that we are in the beginning of a socialist take over out in the open?
Many states require a teaching certificate in order to homeschool, which usually necessitates a BA in Elementary Ed, which is the easiest of all majors and can be granted online. I don't support making a teaching certificate mandatory, but it does help to weed out the cretins who want to keep their children locked in the house 24/7 while not providing them an adequate education. As long as the child passes an annual standardized test and isn't being isolated due to neglect, abuse, or indoctrination, I think anyone should be permitted to homeschool their kids.
I would submit people whose sole degree is Education are the LAST ones who should be homeschooling. "Professional educators" are the lamebrains that have devolved our educational system over the past 50 years to the point where homeschooling is not only a viable option but a preferable one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
Well, using that criteria, how the heck did we ever get to where we are today? Wouldn't we have created generation after generation of 'stupid people' providing their children 'an inadequate education'? Sheesh... So you're not going to teach your children about firearms until you have degrees in chemistry, science, mechanical engineering, neuroscience and a dozen other specialties?
Where do you think more kids are indoctrinated and abused at? Home or at school? If you think that a family that would take the time to home school their children is the problem, you are oblivious to reality. The problem is two income families who have a child, stick the child in daycare, drop off the child at school and pick the kid up at daycare. These parents have no room to complain when their kids fail in their academics. They have no room to complain when their children are turned into raving liberals. Parents who dont want to spend any time or effort raising their children are the problem. Not the parents who care enough to teach their children.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
this is also incorrect. Most states do not require a degree. Actually, I am having a hard time finding any that require a degree higher than high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000002/00000214.asp
here is some info.
This all goes back to modern marxism and communism. You should not be allowed to raise your own children. And we can thank unions too. Teachers unions, law enforcement unions and public employee unions should be outlawed.
The crusade to ban things seems to know no bounds.
nobody should be able to have a gun unless they are POST certified...right?
I lack an "Eduction egree" and teach my son jist fine! Me no needs a degra to teach mi sun......
juss saing!
[ROFL2][ROFL3]
Edit: Guess I should prob add that I home school my son for real and I was just joking on the spelling, grammar and in ability to form a coherent sentence.
I was homeschooled until high school and got a scholarship at Colorado School of Mines.
Maybe the people in "The Village" had it right. ;)
WTF? I'm getting awfully sick of this administration thinking it has a right and obligation to direct the plebes in all things.
Whatever happened to the right to be left the hell alone?!?
I gotta take exception to this comment, because not all two income families have terrible kids, nor are all two income families by design. My wife and I both work because we have to, not because we want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
It's the families that dump their kids off on everyone else so they can both work 80 hour weeks that are the problem. If that's what you meant then apologies. But if you meant every two income family ruins their kids then you paint the picture with the most ignorant brush.
Yet another case of the gubbin'ment thinking they know better than us, trying to save the world from bad parenting because of the bad apples. Guess what, no amount of gubbin'ment will save the world from the idiots, they're unstoppable. Now quit forcing your bullshit on the rest of the responsible parents.
Couple of my co-workers homeschool their kids and they're just fine. But they also have decent IQ's, unlike the majority of the general public.
The only reason for the "Prussian Model" compulsory public education system we have in place is to make people compliant sheep capable of pushing buttons and pulling levers but not capable of critical thought. People that are capable of feeding themselves and running the machines that feed the state but that will follow orders without question.
Home-schooled children rarely score below public school educated children even when their parents are high school dropouts.
This (and the recent call for compulsory, government provided pre-school) is about indoctrinating children to be good Democrat slaves and nothing more. These people don't give two shits about the quality of life of these children and only want to break the back of Christianity, conservatism, individualism and Constitutionalism.
first, I really never mean all, always, never, only. I meant the families who the minute they pop out kids allow everyone else to raise them. The ones who take no responsibility for their childrens growth, learning etc. Good children can be brought up anywhere in any situation with proper parenting.
i do think many people think they need two incomes and dont. Cut back, live within your means, dont keep up with the Joneses. There are lot of things in life we need less of. More time for family is more important than material things. Homes can be older and smaller, cars can be older and less cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugnacAutMortem
Do I really have to say it again? OK, I will: Agenda 21. Learn about it. See it in action in our schools. Want your child to be able to think critically? Might want to find out exactly what they're being taught in those 'institutions'... 2+2=5
Yeah, because standardized testing is the best thing ever. Just look at what No Child Left Behind (more accurately described as "No Child Allowed To Succeed") has done for us - all schools do now is teach the tests. No, thank you. "As long as the child passes a standardized test"... how about "As long as gun owners get an annual safety inspection"? And the indoctrination part? What do you think they're doing in public schools?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
I'll agree with the rest, though. The hardest thing about homeschooling is the social aspect, but that can be dealt with.
My kids get homeschooled because they can't get what they need in public school. They're both gifted AND special needs; when we lived in Colorado, Cherry Creek schools couldn't provide what my son needed and wouldn't do what they were required to by law. The only way for us to get him what we needed was to A) find about $40k to pay for a special private school and then find the money to sue the district, who would then pay for the school or B) home school them. Guess what we did, after we moved out of Colorado. Oh, and the other reason we're homeschooling them? So they can actually learn. My daughter was doing the new "University of Chicago Math Program" that Cherry Creek uses, and after 6th grade still didn't know her multiplication tables, and couldn't do basic multiplication or division. Yet, she passed each grade! She couldn't write a summary, because they didn't teach her what one was, or how to write it! And this is the best, or one of the best, school districts in Colorado? My wife has been able to teach her these things. So, why do I want my kids in public school?
The schools down where I am now? Their overall, main emphasis is sports, and testing. To the exclusion of all else. Sports, the Opiate of the masses. And the now-required, all encompassing standardized testing. So, not much of a decision.
AH is one of the first against the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
Convenient this idiot supports his case by saying there's nothing in the Constitution that guarantees a right to homeschooling, and fails to realize there is nothing in the Constitution which grants the federal government the authority to establish the Dept. of Education either.
Think Hitler Youth people. Read up on the history of that and you will see what this is about.
He wants to change the way people think. He has said it in his own words.
I actually laughed out loud. Nicely done.Quote:
Originally Posted by NFATrustGuy
Well, although MOST homeschoolers have the best intentions and actually teach their children the same subjects they'd learn in a public school, there are a lot of horror stories too. Believe it or not, some parents would just claim to "homeschool" their kids without teaching them anything: either to use for unpaid labor, or to prevent them from telling anyone about abuse at home, or to prevent any semblance of socialization with people outside of their weird cult. I agree 100% that NCLB was designed to fail our children, teachers, and schools . . . but if you claim to be "homeschooling" your kids, having their knowledge be tested once a year is quite reasonable and a safeguard against abuses. Believe me when I tell you that "homeschooling" has been used simply as an excuse to pull children out of public schools with no attempt made to educate them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troublco
Actually there is text in the Constitution that guarantees the right to home schooling: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelhund
There is no power delegated to the Federal government to force children into indoctrination centers ... er ... schools. Period. Therefore you do have the absolute constitutional right to NOT send your children to government schools.
But like I said in another thread, the 10th Amendment has been dead for longer than most of us have been alive.
Contrary to public opinion, it is not the job of the Federal Government (nor do they have the right to make it their job) to prevent child abuse. At best it is the job of the states to come up with laws and rules defining "abuse".Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
More people have been abused by and failed in government run schools then have been home schooled. If the simple fact that there are rare examples of home schooling parents abusing their children is enough to allow it to be banned then public schools should also be banned.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C. S. Lewis
I've heard some spooky allegations about AmeriCorps lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDave
I move to Colorado, I get back to my roots with my love of firearms...Dems take it over and work toward ruining the state. My wife and I are about to have our first child, and now they are working on telling us we can't home school, damnit.
this is beginning to get on my nerves
I certainly believe you, no question. However, does that mean that the gubment should get involved? What about all the other 'abuses' in our society/culture today? Do you expect the gubment to "fix" those as well? Does the Constitution give the gubment the 'job' of fixing all abuses? If not, then we're done with the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
you must be talking from alot of experience. Because I have never seen this. Im sure if you are dealing with ghetto trash, maybe thats why. I have met and know hundreds of home school families and none of them would fit your biased stereotype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
How about some actual data to back up your claims?
If you are proficient with a gun, you must be ok with the government requiring annual testing. Otherwise you cant use your 2a rights. If you want to use your 1a rights you shouldnt mind taking an annual test for that either...right? Any other things you are ok with the government forcing us to do?
This is the problem with America. Everyone wants more laws and more government.
HA excellent point, sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge
It isn't generally reported in the media. I have a few friends working as investigators for Child Protective Services in another state, and a few friends who are public schoolteachers who are familiar with cases involving abused kids being pulled out of school by abusive parents for "home schooling", and am familiar with a few isolated "religious communities" who don't want any contact with the rest of society and try to maintain total control over their community like a cult . . . and I'm not talking about the Amish or Hassidic communities either, but nutjobs who make the Scientologists and Branch Davidians almost look sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
"Although MOST gun owners have the best intentions and actually use their guns for normal functions, there are a lot of horror stories too. Believe it or not, some gun owners would just claim to own semi-automatic firearms with high capacity magazines for legal purposes, and then hide them in their homes for all sorts of nefarious reasons. But if you claim to be a law abiding gun owner, having your "arsenal" inspected once a year is quite reasonable and a safeguard against abuses. The Second Amendment has been used simply as an excuse to own all sorts of guns that have no place outside the military."Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
I actually do get what you're saying, but I'm done with the notion that the "Government is here to help". I've dealt with CPS down where I am now too, and they were not helpful, nor there to help. The idiot that we had to deal with had no grasp on reality, and after admitting that she had no idea what high-functioning autism involved, proceeded to tell us what we should do with our son. In fact, I discovered during the course of dealing with them, prior to their ultimately being unable to do anything to us after all sorts of threats, that the region the office we were dealing with was in were under investigation from the State for various misdeeds. Social Services is one of the more screwed up sections of Government, and as far as I'm concerned is past helping; it needs to be eliminated and replaced with an entirely different organization.
I spent 24 years in the military, and have dealt (and still deal) with various portions of the government all the time. Very little I see makes me think things are getting better. The Education System is not broken, it's been destroyed, and as far as I'm concerned they've squandered any respectability they may have had, and ANY right to tell me what to do. My kids will be educated; much better than the products the system is spewing out. And they'll be able to think for themselves.
I attended public school. In 10th grade my HS counselor told me to drop out so I did. Public schools are amazing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint45
I would like to know more about this; some sources would be great!