Deliberate Repost: Colorado Constitutional Amendment.

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03-10-2013, 19:20
Kraven251

Deliberate Repost: Colorado Constitutional Amendment.

http://www.ar-15.co/threads/78681-Ma...onal+amendment

The original title, while clever, didn't get this concept the traction it required.

I am looking for our lawyers on the board, especially those that specialize in Constitutional law state/federal. I would also like to run this up the flagpole with RMGO, but I am willing to get this ball rolling and put some funds toward the effort to get a draft of a State Constitution amendment to give the people their voice back on the issue.

I know we want to vote as many of these guys out in 2014 as possible, but the legislators did an end around on a previous amendment with civil unions, so let's put our own play in action to do an end around on these bogus laws and trump them with the State Constitution.

This would require putting the proper language together, address specifics, and get it on the ballot. The politicians aren't listening, so let's help them hear us. No matter what passes into law, it will be a clear violation of our given right secured by the Second Amendment, and we need to move to set things right.

A long drawn out legal battle for each law will mean someone is getting their life dragged through the mud and are being crucified in most media, and could still end in setting precedent that none of us want to see happen. Let's direct that effort those resources, and get something that matters on a ballot for our State.
03-10-2013, 21:32
TheGrey

Does RMGO have a lobbyist? Will NRA help us?
03-10-2013, 22:24
Kraven251

I am sure we can get the support, but I would like to have some groundwork in place else we are asking them to do the work and supporting their action. While I think both organizations are looking out for our interests I believe something that started independently and gained their backing will have a much greater impact in the whole dog and pony show of the amendment process and getting this into the public eye.
03-10-2013, 23:39
Faust

Tagged for future followup. I refuse to be a bystander in the californication of Co and the nation.
03-11-2013, 09:11
Zundfolge
I also posted a followup to that original thread with actual text of a ballot initiative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Ok, we gotta get this ball rolling somewhere.

So I've thrown together preliminary text for a possible constitutional amendment to put on the ballot (for those that haven't been paying attention or just moved here, here in Colorado the people can amend the state constitution via ballot initiative).

The rules are simple;

The amendment must be on a single subject (and that single subject referenced in the title).
To get on the ballot it must get enough signatures to get on the ballot (The number of signatures required for a successful petition is equal to 5% of the total number of votes cast for the office of Secretary of State in the preceding general election. so in this case 86,105).

With those in mind I've done my best to keep to the single subject and not cross any lines that would significantly reduce the number of people willing to sign (so no "constitutional carry" or codified rejection of Federal law or rejection of the NFA with the state borders ... even though I'd love to have all those things).

So I present the following ... get your highlighters and red markers out and let me know if this is remotely on the right track (any legal beagles out there we could REALLY use your help on the verbiage ... much of which I lifted from other successful ballot initiatives). I have a tendency to write run on sentences (although that seems to be a common trait of legislative language) and I tend to over use parenthetical statements (like this one).

Text edited out by foxtrot - the self confidence is nice, but this needs to be left to those whom have real experience. Thank you. The layperson is not qualified to write this, much less review it.
03-11-2013, 09:56
Kraven251

So I missed that thread apparently. My apologies. Though we still need to find ourselves a lawyer that can get this put together and have it proper.

To that end anyone know of any decent Constitutional Law folks?
03-11-2013, 10:15
Mountain Man

I have a Gun rights group and I have been trying to get the NRA more involved and after being told they were onboard for a whole bunch of stuff they stopped responding. The response from the NRA has been underwhelming do far.
03-11-2013, 15:37
Zundfolge

Well based on what foxtrot posted I guess it's time to admit we're just screwed. Guess I'll just sit here and wait for them to kick my door in and kill me (maybe I'll get a couple of them first).

Us proles are too dumb to do anything and if we're going to wait around for "experts" to do it (especially for free) well then it's just not going to happen.

Oh well, I put my two pesos worth in.
03-11-2013, 15:43
Trisha

Hon, I'd be more than willing to take it to our attorney (was Park County ADA and ran for judge). He's good enough to understand the framework but he's expensive - call it $1,000 to make the first appointment and lay out the desired specific. That means I will do it if funded!

He's Sean Paris.
03-12-2013, 07:31
Kraven251

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trisha

Hon, I'd be more than willing to take it to our attorney (was Park County ADA and ran for judge). He's good enough to understand the framework but he's expensive - call it $1,000 to make the first appointment and lay out the desired specific. That means I will do it if funded!

He's Sean Paris.

I'll start getting funds together and reach out to some of my contacts not on CoAR, and see if they know any lawyers that fit the bill too. I was hoping to get this started with members from here and was not expecting the work to be pro bono.

I appreciate the recommendation and I'll definitely be in touch with you about Sean Paris. I also assume he is pro-2A, but I have to ask.
03-12-2013, 10:35
Birddog1911

I've emailed a pro-2A attorney that I know, to see if he'd be able to help with drafting the amendment.
03-12-2013, 10:56
Trisha

Kraven, he is. He's a naturalized American from Belgium. He knows our past fight and escape from the hood (33ST CRIPS, MLK & York).

If he accepts a task he never backs down.
03-12-2013, 11:00
Kraven251

I want to thank everyone for helping to get the ball rolling, our hands are mostly tied on what we can do and this will allow the citizens and voters of the state to have a voice. I was holding out quite a bit of hope that we wouldn't have to pursue this action, but the reality is it is one of the few avenues we have left to target the current set and I am fairly certain future legislation and get things back to some semblance of sane.
03-12-2013, 19:10
Birddog1911

The attorney that I mentioned has been made aware of this thread. I suspect he's a member here, but can't be certain. He said that he'd be glad to help, and I believe him. Let's make it happen, folks!
03-12-2013, 20:43
mcculver5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birddog1911

I've emailed a pro-2A attorney that I know, to see if he'd be able to help with drafting the amendment.

I am now. I am an attorney but not a 2A attorney. I am very familiar with Colorado firearm statutes.

I think we need someone who has done a campaign for a ballot initiative.

Also, I think it would be usefull to look at what other states are doing regarding this issue and what they have done to protect the rights of gun owners.

Happy to help.
03-13-2013, 08:12
Birddog1911

Glad to hear it, McCulver. Now we just need to keep this moving.
03-13-2013, 08:29
mtnhack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

I have a Gun rights group and I have been trying to get the NRA more involved and after being told they were onboard for a whole bunch of stuff they stopped responding. The response from the NRA has been underwhelming do far.

It sure seemed to me that they were obviously missing during this entire process. I would have thought they would have been here fighting to stomp this out and end any national momentum before it could start. Really disappointing.
03-13-2013, 09:08
robertcolorado2009

Totally in agreement about the NRA. I was wondering the same, where are they? I've seen absolutely nothing about them or from them this entire session so far.
Welcome to the forum mcculver!
There's some really great people here. I hope you can help us in any way possible with ANY of this.
03-13-2013, 09:40
Kraven251

It appears that some folks from Colorado Springs has hit the issue of Magazine limits.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ition-magazine

So taking away 1224 as a target, which is the next one of these wonderous almost laws do we need to take a swing at?
03-13-2013, 09:42
Birddog1911

Oh, and my apologies to McCulver. I didn't mean to specifically imply that he is a 2-A attorney; more that he is an attorney, who is very pro 2-A.
03-13-2013, 10:42
Lucas

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraven251

It appears that some folks from Colorado Springs has hit the issue of Magazine limits.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ition-magazine

So taking away 1224 as a target, which is the next one of these wonderous almost laws do we need to take a swing at?

I would have to say if 1224 was gone the target should be sb 197 because of unconstitutional bar it would set by being guilty until proven innocent. After that UBC should be the target.