I need to be taught to be more paranoid about gun registration

...so help me out. This example uses the word registration to mean purchased through a FFL dealer. I have 2 examples:

1.) Peter legally owns a handgun, a shotgun, and a rifle. Only the shotgun was registered through a FFL, the other two were purchased private party. One day in the future after all firears are made illegal jack-booted Feds (JBF) come to Peter's house because his name and address were on the FFL registry and indicate that he owns a shotgun. Of course while they are there they tell him that he will need to turn in all of his firearm, not just the ones they know about. It is his choice if he does or does not lie to the JBF about continuing to own any of his firearms. JBF may legally or illegally search his house for the firearms. The may or may not find them and they may or may not charge him.

2.) Peter legally owns a handgun, a shotgun, and a rifle. All 3 firearms were registered through a FFL. One day in the future after all firears are made illegal jack-booted Feds (JBF) come to Peter's house because his name and address were on the FFL registry and indicate that he owns a handgun, a rifle, and a shotgun. Of course while they are there they tell him that he will need to turn in all of his firearms, not just the ones they know about. It is his choice if he does or does not lie to the JBF about continuing to own any of his firearms. JBF may legally or illegally search his house for the firearms. The may or may not find them and they may or may not charge him.

I can understand an arguement about not having any of your firearms "registered" but if you have even 1 firearm registered, that is all it will take to get a visit come confiscation day or turn-in-your-firearms day (assuming it will come). If you lie to the JBF on confiscation day and they find you in possession of your firearm later you will still be charged with a crime so... Why are most people paranoid about purchasing guns from a FFL? What am I missing?

"I sold/lost/gave away those firearms many years ago."

On confiscation day, should it ever come, the first obstacle will be getting close enough to ask what guns I may, or may not, still possess.

well in example 1, the JBT are leaving with 1 gun, or 3 guns and you. in example 2 they are leaving with 3 guns. Having some not through a FFL means there is a chance to keep them if you choose to take the risk.

Also this will never happen because FFL records have to be searched by hand. No way they will ever have the man power for such a task.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

On confiscation day, should it ever come, the first obstacle will be getting close enough to ask what guns I may, or may not, still possess.

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On confiscation day, you won't know they are coming until you are face down with a barrel at the back of your head. "ZE WEAPONZ, NOW!"
(see california confiscation threads)

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Originally Posted by newracer

Also this will never happen because FFL records have to be searched by hand. No way they will ever have the man power for such a task.

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Unless they have been logging them electronically all along.


(this tin-foil is itchy)

Finally a good reason to have a Hi-Point handgun...a decoy for the search!!! I always knew they were being made for something.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

On confiscation day, should it ever come, the first obstacle will be getting close enough to ask what guns I may, or may not, still possess.

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I hope you have a lot of Magpul products full, that Sgt. Fitzpatrick gave us and foresaw that day is coming.

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Originally Posted by newracer

Also this will never happen because FFL records have to be searched by hand. No way they will ever have the man power for such a task.

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they could contract the job to Google, their book scanning division, and have it done pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by mtnhack

Unless they have been logging them electronically all along.


(this tin-foil is itchy)

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Again, they do not have the man power to do that. The form stays with the FFL unless they close. Then all the records are sent to the Feds to be stored. No way they are logging all that data.

Maybe I'm not understanding your example. Am I correct in saying that purchasing a firearm through a FFL is the only way the JBFs know Peter has any guns in the first place?

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Originally Posted by merl

they could contract the job to Google, their book scanning division, and have it done pretty quickly.

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But they do not have all the records.

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Originally Posted by newracer

But they do not have all the records.

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one little law and they do. Not like the records don't exist, they are just scattered all over the country.

And there are millions of them. It is more likely that firearm owners will be turned in by neighbors, co-workers, and relatives than searching the 4473 records.

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Originally Posted by mtnhack

Unless they have been logging them electronically all along.


(this tin-foil is itchy)

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Umm... The drone above you (DON'T LOOK NOW!) can see them under your coat and track you using your cellphones GPS!

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/creepy...k-cell-phones/

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Originally Posted by mtnhack

On confiscation day, you won't know they are coming until you are face down with a barrel at the back of your head. "ZE WEAPONZ, NOW!"
(see california confiscation threads)

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Well lets hope we dont have to find out. I will point you to history though and just say that more than a few revenue agents went back into the hollows of TN looking for my relatives to confiscate various things and never came back. Not the first time in the history of this country has the government done something monumentally stupid and had to be reminded gently not to do it again.

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Well lets hope we dont have to find out. I will point you to history though and just say that more than a few revenue agents went back into the hollows of TN looking for my relatives to confiscate various things and never came back. Not the first time in the history of this country has the government done something monumentally stupid and had to be reminded gently not to do it again.

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didn't Dorner try that?

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Originally Posted by TheGrey

Maybe I'm not understanding your example. Am I correct in saying that purchasing a firearm through a FFL is the only way the JBFs know Peter has any guns in the first place?

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This is the point. And when they ask I shall stand tall and state I know comrade Obummer would protect me and I have no need for such devices. Hail Gov Dicknpooper.

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Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

didn't Dorner try that?

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Did he? I'm not sure...

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Originally Posted by newracer

"I sold/lost/gave away those firearms many years ago."

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This

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Originally Posted by newracer

And there are millions of them. It is more likely that firearm owners will be turned in by neighbors, co-workers, and relatives than searching the 4473 records.

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agreed, but before it got to the point of JBT in your house there would be a national registry. You would be required to register (so they can catch you in a lie later) and they'll sift through those records as a double check. If you do not register something that the 4473 says you bought you go on the shorter list of watched.

That is not the situation described. I will never register any of my firearms, see my first post.

I just come here for the funny pictures thread and the ponies. I don't own any guns.........hear that Mrs Napalotano? I don't have any.....but I know folks who do!

Technically they don't need to knock on or kick in any doors. All they have to do is declare all firearms illegal, and setup a date that all firearms must be turned in by. If you're caught with any firearm after that date for any reason you get a 25 year mandatory prison sentence.

You rob a bank, boom 25 years in prison.
You shoot someone that breaks into your house, boom 25 years in prison.
You shoot a guy on the street who's beating an old woman, boom 25 years in prison.
Your kid gets questioned at school about if there are any guns in the house, they kick in your door, find them, boom 25 years in prison.

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Originally Posted by RCCrawler

Technically they don't need to knock on or kick in any doors. All they have to do is declare all firearms illegal, and setup a date that all firearms must be turned in by. If you're caught with any firearm after that date for any reason you get a 25 year mandatory prison sentence.

You rob a bank, boom 25 years in prison.
You shoot someone that breaks into your house, boom 25 years in prison.
You shoot a guy on the street who's beating an old woman, boom 25 years in prison.
Your kid gets questioned at school about if there are any guns in the house, they kick in your door, find them, boom 25 years in prison.

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So do i hit the bank and go down in flames or just go down in flames.
OR do i (HYPOTHETICALLY BASED ON every TV and movie ever made) Go Charles Bronson on the dregs of society. Taking my chances i end up shot down in flames OR have some bitchin folk song go viral after word spreads of my task cleansing the earth of predators.
Something catchy say the judges would give it a 5 for easy to dance to but a solid 10 on music while viewed on AB.

http://www.televisiontunes.com/American_Bandstand.html

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Originally Posted by TheGrey

Maybe I'm not understanding your example. Am I correct in saying that purchasing a firearm through a FFL is the only way the JBFs know Peter has any guns in the first place?

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I guess there could be a national registry period and any guns not registered would earn prison time if discovered later as another member suggested.

If there is not a national registry I do not know of another way for the JBF to know you have a specific gun(s). Just thinking out loud.

Damned new laws have me so skeered that I just set fire to mine. Here Mr. Alphabet man, you are welcome to take em all but give me an official receipt - please. [blaster]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ellmisc011.jpg

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Originally Posted by newracer

Again, they do not have the man power to do that. The form stays with the FFL unless they close. Then all the records are sent to the Feds to be stored. No way they are logging all that data.

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I don't know about the above. When I turned in my 01 FFL (because it was too much of a hassle to maintain it) the 4473's were mailed to the ATFE facility in Atlanta, GA and I was told by the receiver that the records would all be entered in their computer. Of course those over 20 years old were not sent in - per instructions from them.

Wow...nobody mentioned boats.

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Originally Posted by newracer

Also this will never happen because FFL records have to be searched by hand. No way they will ever have the man power for such a task.

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You are either trying to be funny -- or are woefully ignorant about the state of technology.

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

...so help me out. This example uses the word registration to mean purchased through a FFL dealer. I have 2 examples:

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You're mixing current and upcoming laws. By current law in example 2 Peter can say, I sold all 3 private party to some guy in Grand Junction. If they search the house and don't find anything, they can't prove he didn't sell them.

The new universal background check will make that illegal. So Peter purchases 3 guns after UBC goes into effect. Now when the JBF show up and say he has 3 traceable purchases through an FFL, he can't say he sold them or else there would be a record. If he doesn't turn over the guns he will be arrested regardless of his lie.

After UBC happen, universal registration is the next step. Under registration they will most likely require you report to an FFL or the gov if you had a "boating accident" to remove the excuse that your guns just walked away.

And thats what is so scary, and why this MUST GO.

That sheds some more light on things spongejosh. So after they require BGC I may still own unregistered firearms and their next step could be to require registering those. That will be another issue.

Until there is a national BCG system in place you could still temporally move out of state, acquire arms, and then return to Colorado with those arms without registering them.

Bottom line, they're slowing eroding our right to own firearms.

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

That sheds some more light on things spongejosh. So after they require BGC I may still own unregistered firearms and their next step could be to require registering those. That will be another issue.

Until there is a national BCG system in place you could still temporally move out of state, acquire arms, and then return to Colorado with those arms without registering them.

Bottom line, they're slowing eroding our right to own firearms.

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SLOWLY?? THEY OPEN UP HOOVER DAM and forgot to tell the residents down stream. OOPS

My mommy said guns are bad. That's why I don't have one, I don't like them.

Maybe the media was portraying him as a "crazy", how many of us will be the next "Dorner" . [tinhat]It will end poorly

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

Did he? I'm not sure...

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

On confiscation day, should it ever come, the first obstacle will be getting close enough to ask what guns I may, or may not, still possess.

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^^^THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS^^^^

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Originally Posted by newracer

Again, they do not have the man power to do that. The form stays with the FFL unless they close. Then all the records are sent to the Feds to be stored. No way they are logging all that data.

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Besides, you can't search data that's been destroyed in bonfires in FFL parking lots.