DIY guys get in here. finishing basement and garage.

I wanted to hear some pointers from you guys. I am in the planning stages of finishing my basement and my garage. garage is already insulated, and 1/3 of it was drywalled when it was new. I wanted to see what you guys recommend for both and any pointers I might look out for.

The basement is about 35x28. stairwell in the middle of it. thinking on doing 1 long room for the kid (more than likely 1-2 more). want a gun room, storage room, bathroom with shower (no tub). plumbing is already done. this is all on concrete slab, I believe it is floated (not sure how I tell this), there is a perimeter drain under the foundation that going to a sump pump. pump is in the corner. also have the furnace and water heater down there as well which. I wanted to get ideas on how to close this off but still be able to access it?

4 window wells as well. I already made the covers for them. 2 are large emergency escape, other 2 are smaller but still plenty big enough to be emergency escape.

do not want a bedroom as we already have 5. as much as I would like another room in the basement where it is nice and cool, I can just toss my cot up in the gun room and nap in the cool down there.

also want to hear the pro/con of drywall on the ceilings or drop tile.

I have a buddy who is an electrician so I can count on him for all my electrical. plumbing should be relatively easy so just plug and play I assume.

I was thinking about doing hardwood for pretty much the whole thing other than the bathroom which would be tile. But for those of you with kids who are a little older and play a lot on their own, do you recommend carpet in the play area or hardwood with a rug or something down. My son already likes to play with cars so i thought the hard wood would be better, but wanted to hear what you guys thought.

oh, and as far as the garage, I just want to drywall the rest of it, texture, put in some cabinets and call it good. 2 car garage, not much space on either side and we park 2 vehicles in it.

Get some rolls of 2 inch wide blue painters tape and go down and start laying stuff out.. see what works and what doesn't. There will be codes that will decide on what you need to do around your water heater and furnace as well as the bathroom.. Start there.

We will be closing on our house in May and are looking forward to finishing our basement in the coming months/years (probably won't be able to start on it for another several months). We've got about 1,900 sq feet of unfinished basement to play with.

Subscribed to see what pointers you get!

http://oi50.tinypic.com/182g02.jpg

Don't forget hvac. Let me know iffn you want a bid!

Where to begin, hopefully your water heater, furnace and sump pump are all close together that way you can frame 1 room around all of them and mame that a mechanical room. There is no such thing as a floated concreat slab, as it is not a part of the foundation, it is poured after the walls and right on top of dirt. I don't like the idea of hardwood on a concrete slab because if the concrete heaves at all your hosed, I would just do carpet everywhere except the mech. room. I did a drop tile ceiling so that way you still have access to everything that is up there, it look good and is not that much more than drywall. I hope some of this helps, I just did mine and love it( the basement) I framed houses for 10 years and did it all myself. If your not far from me I could come over a give you some pointers.

Use Steel Studs. Floating walls. Easier to move around if you decide during the build that part of your layout isn't working as you thought.

Steel doesn't rot or mold, since it's a basement and potential for leaks from above or perimeter drains.

As noted by Def90, blue tape the areas and see what you like.

My 2 cents.

what about the man cave and the walk in safe

Sniper7 I am in the middle of having my 1500sqff basement finished myself. Although I can't answer many of the questions you asked I just wanted to add or recommend one thing. Get a permit for the work! This is coming from what a PIA it was to sell my last house and dealing with contractors on my new place I am very glad I spent to extra money to do it! Even if you plan to do some of the work yourself.

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Originally Posted by twitchyfinger

Sniper7 I am in the middle of having my 1500sqff basement finished myself. Although I can't answer many of the questions you asked I just wanted to add or recommend one thing. Get a permit for the work! This is coming from what a PIA it was to sell my last house and dealing with contractors on my new place I am very glad I spent to extra money to do it! Even if you plan to do some of the work yourself.

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How much is a permit and why is it required?

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Originally Posted by spittoon

what about the man cave and the walk in safe

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Nah...this house will end up a rental, I'll save that for the next one

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Originally Posted by eppy

Where to begin, hopefully your water heater, furnace and sump pump are all close together that way you can frame 1 room around all of them and mame that a mechanical room. There is no such thing as a floated concreat slab, as it is not a part of the foundation, it is poured after the walls and right on top of dirt. I don't like the idea of hardwood on a concrete slab because if the concrete heaves at all your hosed, I would just do carpet everywhere except the mech. room. I did a drop tile ceiling so that way you still have access to everything that is up there, it look good and is not that much more than drywall. I hope some of this helps, I just did mine and love it( the basement) I framed houses for 10 years and did it all myself. If your not far from me I could come over a give you some pointers.

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the water heater and furnace are right next to each other but on one end of the basement smac dad in the middle. The sump pump is in the corner but close to them. I was thinking a storage room and a little closet for the sump pump and the the mechanical room for the furnace and water heater.
Yeah I hear what you are saying on the cement and one reason that I question the hardwood.

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Originally Posted by eppy

Where to begin, hopefully your water heater, furnace and sump pump are all close together that way you can frame 1 room around all of them and mame that a mechanical room. There is no such thing as a floated concreat slab, as it is not a part of the foundation, it is poured after the walls and right on top of dirt. I don't like the idea of hardwood on a concrete slab because if the concrete heaves at all your hosed, I would just do carpet everywhere except the mech. room. I did a drop tile ceiling so that way you still have access to everything that is up there, it look good and is not that much more than drywall. I hope some of this helps, I just did mine and love it( the basement) I framed houses for 10 years and did it all myself. If your not far from me I could come over a give you some pointers.

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This

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Originally Posted by gnihcraes

Use Steel Studs. Floating walls. Easier to move around if you decide during the build that part of your layout isn't working as you thought.

Steel doesn't rot or mold, since it's a basement and potential for leaks from above or perimeter drains.

As noted by Def90, blue tape the areas and see what you like.

My 2 cents.

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And this. The only thing i would do instead of carpet would be a laminate floor. Solid / real wood flooring has minimal if any give, carpet is a nice insulator. However with either, seeing how you have a sump pump [which never fail} you can have mold issues if a water leak or flooding occur. The laminate is a litte hardier AND very easy to replace IF yo uhad flooding or movement in the concrete.

Permit: I hate going that route, but you almost have to anymore. I had issues proving to insurance that my work was done to code, without proving permits were pulled and work checked by inspectors. Sometimes you cannot even sell a house anymore without proving the additional work was done with permits.

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Originally Posted by gnihcraes

Permit: I hate going that route, but you almost have to anymore. I had issues proving to insurance that my work was done to code, without proving permits were pulled and work checked by inspectors. Sometimes you cannot even sell a house anymore without proving the additional work was done with permits.

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by sniper7

How much is a permit and why is it required?

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Cost depends on the expected value or cost of the job. In my case I bartered for the Frame work, drywall, insulation but paid $4k for the electrical. When I applied for my permit I claimed the cost or value of the job concervatively at $15k as it was about the value in goods that I did the barter with. The permit cost me about $500 and they give you plenty of time to complete.

Where I think it's a good idea is when you go to sell you have proof that everything was done to code. I had a big problem with my last house when selling it because when I bought it it only had electric baseboard heat and a wood stove. I had natural gas installed to the house and then bought a natural gas faux wood stove from the local dealer in Conifer who had a list of licensed installers to have it installed. After choosing one and having it installed I never knew or thought to get a permit from the county yo have the work done and the installer also never said anything about it either. When I went to sell the house the people interested in buying once we were under contract asked about any work that I had done to the house and if I had permits for the work. The gas stove that I had installed didn't have a permit fir the work done so I was required to have the stove and the work inspected and then had to pay to get it approved anyway. So I ended up paying a lot more in the end by not having a permit to have the work done in the first place!

A permit is also a huge plus for me this time because each step is being inspected by someone qualified to make sure my hired contractors are doing the job right, not cutting corners and using quality materials. Have a series of five inspections to get passed the first was electrical rough in, the second is framing inspection (free floating walls were required on anything not load bearing which I thought was overkill for being on top a granite mountain and not prone to frost heave), then there's an insulation inspection, drywall inspection, texture and paint are required before final electrical, and then a final inspection.

This basement finish is half the size of my house and a big job. Been at it for a month and a half already. The hardest part is getting contractors to show up when they are suppose to lol! Due to past experiences I don't think I will ever have another job done unless its permitted but laws are also different in different states and even counties. The kids I have doing drywall is from Alaska where no one does permits for anything ha ha!

Permit costs vary widely depending on jurisdiction. Some want total valuation while others don't include some "replacement" items. A permit for a basement finish in Denver might cost $500 but the same finish in Greenwood Village or Littleton would be $2000. Most all have permit fee schedules on their websites but be prepared to freshen up on your math.[Beer]

Thanks guys I'll check up on the permit. I am not sure if I care about the permit though as it is a bs cost to the .gov and I plan on keeping the house and renting it out. I will definitely check into it, but I am a cheap bastard and absolutely hate paying bs fees to the government.

I going to call in some people to just see what they would charge for the whole thing although I believe I can do most of it myself th the help of family and friends.
As to
the sump pump issue i will be installing a backup emergency pump that is connected to a deep cycle marine battery and a solar trickle charger.

Neighbors are the #1 culprit to turn you in. If you get along with them you should be good.

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Originally Posted by twitchyfinger

A permit is also a huge plus for me this time because each step is being inspected by someone qualified to make sure my hired contractors are doing the job right,

but laws are also different in different states and even counties. The kids I have doing drywall is from Alaska where no one does permits for anything ha ha!

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I'm not convinced of the "being inspected by someone qualified" part, there are schools now to just become an inspector, not knowing anything about actually doing the work. Opinions differed from inspector to inspector when doing my work. One would say "why did he approve that?" or "ok, not sure why he had you do it that way.." One inspector was not more than 20 years old, and didn't seem like he knew very much.

Most cities and counties are going by the international building code now, so most things are similar builds now. (electric, hvac, plumb)

It is a challenge to get through the process sometimes.

Totally understandable Sniper7 and yeah I'm a cheap bastard too! The assessed value I claimed for my permit is less than half of what it should be compared to the usual industry standards. I was able to get it down that low due to bartering for services and materials. Some of the materials I am also providing myself. Figure out a budget and how much you plan to do yourself. The cost of your basement finishing project can vary depending on the finishes that are chosen and the amount of space to be finished. Industry standards state that the average cost to finish a basement is $30 per square foot but that price also varies greatly depending on location and how much you are willing to do yourself. The price per square foot would cost much more in lets say New York or Hawaii!

Here are a couple of other examples for project comparison that shows how this benchmark also may or may not hold true:s

Project A: 750 Square Foot Basement with Basic Finishes
Assume that Project A is a Denver basement finish that consists of finishing 750 square feet of space, including 1 bedroom and 1/2 bathroom. The finishes chosen are basic including entry level carpet, paint-grade base trim and doors, and one paint color throughout the space.
This particular basement could roughly cost $26,000 with basic finishes, which puts the price per square foot at $35 ($26,000 divided by 750 square feet).
Next, let's assume that the home was purchased for $310,000, and has 1700 square feet of space (excluding the basement), which puts the price per square foot of living space (excluding the basement) at $182.
What's the bottom line? The advantage to finishing the basement in this example is that the price to finish the basement is $35 per square foot, which is quite a bit less than the cost of finished living space in the home at $182 per square foot.
In this example, the cost of finishing the basement is close to the industry standard of $30 per square foot, and the project also allows the homeowner to acquire more living space in the basement at a rate less than purchasing another house with more square feet.

Project B: 1600 Square Foot Basement with Top-of-the-Line Finishes


Assume that Project B is also a Denver basement finish, but this one consists of finishing 1600 square feet of space including 1 bedroom and 3/4 bathroom. The finishes chosen are more elaborate than Project A, and include elaborate custom-built entertainment niches, a home theatre, and stain-grade base trim and doors, drywall cutouts and a tray ceiling with enhanced lighting.
This particular basement could roughly cost $90,000 depending on the finishes chosen, which puts the price per square foot at $56 ($90,000 divided by 1600 square feet).
Next, let's assume that the home was purchased for $500,000, and has 2700 square feet of space (excluding the basement), which puts the price per square foot of living space (excluding the basement) at $185.
In this example, the cost of finishing the basement is well above the industry standard of $30 per square foot, at $56 per square foot. However, the homeowner still stands to gain a significant advantage by finishing his/her basement because the cost of finishing the basement is far below the cost to buy a different house with more square footage.

The key to any basement finishing project is to ensure that you have a very clear grasp of the costs ahead of time, and have realistic expectations about the finishes that will be provided. Ask potential contractors you decide to have work done than you can't or do not want to do to provide you with line-item details in their bids, along with examples of the finishes they have assumed to build their pricing.






t finishing project can vary depending on the finishes that are chosen and the amount of space to be finished.Industry standards state that the average cost to finish a basement is $30 per square foot, but the following project comparison shows how this benchmark may or may not hold true:

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Originally Posted by gnihcraes

I'm not convinced of the "being inspected by someone qualified" part, there are schools now to just become an inspector, not knowing anything about actually doing the work. Opinions differed from inspector to inspector when doing my work. One would say "why did he approve that?" or "ok, not sure why he had you do it that way.." One inspector was not more than 20 years old, and didn't seem like he knew very much.

Most cities and counties are going by the international building code now, so most things are similar builds now. (electric, hvac, plumb)

It is a challenge to get through the process sometimes.

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I see your point and agree with you. My main motivation for obtaining a permit was for resale reasons. It does sure help to have a general knowledge of how certain things are done like framing, drywall, electrical, pluming etc. But for the things that some people like myself don't know anything about it provides me with some insurance that the person doing it is somewhat competent in what they are doing. My example is the kid I hired to do my job initially wanted to and was going to do the electrical also. While he is a licensed and insured builder is is not a licensed and insured electrician. He know about as much as I do when it come to electrical so when it comes to wiring a 220v line from the main panel to the basement and adding in a 100 amp dub panel in the basement neither of us had a clue. I had to hire I licensed electrician to do the job and none would even touch it unless the entire job was under permit. Yes this is a big and daunting task! It took me months of preparation just to get started on this project. I do see your point and agree and until recently I was all against and didn't see the need for a permit. It has been a learning process for me and i'm still learning! You are so right that it's a challenge to get through this and by no means an easy task to take on!

I do basements during the winter and take care of a lot of rentals. Permits are really needed. If you resale, that can hold up the process and trying to get an inspection after the fact is not fun. If it is a rental and something happens that effects the tenant and it is a result of something not up to code, your insurance may not cover it or you. I refuse to do any major work without a permit. If your neighbors turn you in, there is a cease and desist order given, then a lot of hoops and cash spent. It is just easier to just get the permit. The last one I got was not to expensive. If you get a permit, take it when you buy your lumber pack or anything else and keep track since the tax is prefigured in the cost of your pemit. My 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by hghclsswhitetrsh

Don't forget hvac. Let me know iffn you want a bid!

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Will do!

The one biggest thing about a permit, god forbid something happens if the job is permitted insurance will cover it.

I noticed sometimes building permits are noted on the county assessors website. Usually a date of the permit and minor explanation. Might help if resale ever comes.

Do you need a permit to finish a garage?

If your doing any electrical, plumbing or heat-definitely is "required". Anything else, fawk em.

Get a permit, any faulty work that say burns the house down can be your fault without a permit. Any resale value you think you'll get from this finish will vanish.

Get a radon test before you start.

Seal the concrete against moisture.

Put in a full bathtub not a stall.

With your plans and kids skip hardwood and use a vinyl wood product.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051

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Originally Posted by sniper7

Do you need a permit to finish a garage?

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Are your serious? This is the currently liberally controlled government we are talking about!

Sorry Sniper but you set yourself up for that one! :)

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Originally Posted by sniper7

Do you need a permit to finish a garage?

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This you can usually get away with the "it was that way when i bought it" routine.

Building departments are very nice to homeowners. We contractors can get hit with double the permit fee if caught. Homeowners typically just get stopped until you go down and pick one up.

Some counties will consider a garage a living space and tax it as such if you texture it.

You county or city should have info on how much clearance they require around mechanical equipment. Here it is 30" in front of the furnace and you must have room to remove the water heater around the furnace.

Clearances are listed on the appliances themselves, they're not regulated by the building department.

Okay looks like for Adams county it is $69 for the first $2000 of valuation and $11 for each $1000 after that for my price range. So if I value it at $30,000 it will be a permit fee of $377.

Does this include inspectors coming out or is that a whole separate cost?

Oh...and if you don't get a fee and someone rats you out it is $100 fine and or ten days in jail for each day you went without a permit....good info to know if you don't like your neighbors.

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Originally Posted by jslo

If your doing any electrical, plumbing or heat-definitely is "required". Anything else, fawk em.

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I should be good then. Electrical is already done!

Well my building Department does.

http://www.fcgov.com/building/pdf/ba...ish-09code.pdf

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Originally Posted by jslo

Clearances are listed on the appliances themselves, they're not regulated by the building department.

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Guess I better check this. That would really cut into my plans.

All the inspections are included. Electrical is a state inspection of its own but you said that's done.

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Originally Posted by twitchyfinger

All the inspections are included. Electrical is a state inspection of its own but you said that's done.

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In the garage it is done, not the basement though

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Originally Posted by newracer

Well my building Department does.

http://www.fcgov.com/building/pdf/ba...ish-09code.pdf

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Misunderstood. Clearance in front is a standard 30" but sides and back are listed on appliance and strictly enforced. Make sure you don't have a use tax and plan review fee, those can double your fees.