MagPul Wavering?

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03-25-2013, 20:49
jslo

MagPul Wavering?

MagPul

REGARDING LEO SALES
March 1st, 2013
Back in 1990, when I was deployed in Desert Shield and Desert Storm as a Marine grunt, some companies prioritized me items for my M16 for shipping that I purchased with my own funds. After getting out and forming Magpul in 1999, I established the same priority policy for Military and Law Enforcement, due to the requirements of their profession.
The same policy has been in place for 13 years now and has never been an issue until a few days ago. I do not support the idea that individual police officers should be punished for the actions of their elected officials. That said, I understand the concerns that some have with Law Enforcement officers getting special treatment while at the same time denouncing second amendment rights to another citizen in the same state.
With the fight in Colorado right now we do not have time to implement a new program, so I have suspended all LE sales to ban states until we can implement a system wherein any Law Enforcement Officer buying for duty use will have to promise to uphold their oath to the US Constitution – specifically the second and fourteenth amendments – as it applies to all citizens.
Richard Fitzpatrick
President/CEO – Founder
Magpul Industries

This is a few weeks old but I hadn't seen it. (sorry if repost). I'm struggling a little with that second paragraph. Thoughts?
03-25-2013, 20:49
lowspeed_highdrag

You're right, it IS a few weeks old.
03-25-2013, 21:25
Skully

Yes that announcement has been out for awhile, they don't want to cut off the good people in law enforcement who still has to do their job. I would be torn too................

Lots of members in the Law enforcement community are on OUR side, acting and thinking like one of us, there are the bad ones, yes, but that is everywhere you go.

The good Law enforcement personal are caught between their principles and the laws enacted and their leaders they answer to.

MAGPUL suspended sales to Law enforcement until they can think of something. That still shows great honor and principle on MAGPUL's part.
03-25-2013, 21:30
XC700116

yeap, I wouldn't want them to reject sales to guys like Sheriff Maketa, or Sheriff Cooke, just because they are LE. I mean they are 2 of the strongest proponents for us and for Magpul in the country let alone the state.
03-25-2013, 21:34
sniper7

Make them take an oath to uphold...something like....well I can't recall what it is....
03-25-2013, 21:54
jslo

Just hoping they can keep track of LEO on our side, like the majority of CO Sheriffs, and keep them out of the hands of the likes of the douche PC of Golden.
03-25-2013, 23:57
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

Just hoping they can keep track of LEO on our side, like the majority of CO Sheriffs, and keep them out of the hands of the likes of the douche PC of Golden.

MAJOR FAIL on your part. You want magpul to have every buyer sign a loyalty oath or something?
Are you also in favor of ALL GUN SALES BEING KEPT TRACK OF?? SOUNDS like a Bloomberg thought process you have going there.
03-26-2013, 00:08
Gman

Maybe the officers that put their lives on the line can do something about their bureaucracies that support these affronts to our freedom?
03-26-2013, 00:17
KevDen2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gman

Maybe the officers that put their lives on the line can do something about their bureaucracies that support these affronts to our freedom?

Ha! It's the public hating us on one side and our administrations destroying us from the other!
03-26-2013, 00:20
hurley842002

Re: MagPul Wavering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevDen2005

Ha! It's the public hating us on one side and our administrations destroying us from the other!

Just can't win...
03-26-2013, 00:41
Aloha_Shooter

How the hell do you see that as wavering? It was a pretty damned clear statement that they didn't want business from departments that were undermining the Second Amendment but were trying to find a way to resume sales to individual officers who swore to uphold their oaths to the Constitution.
03-26-2013, 06:33
jslo

Guess I don't feel LEO like Kilpatrick of Golden, who testified for all these bills, can now just promise to uphold the Constitution to get back in "our" and MagPul's good graces. Anti's promises are not good enough, I want action to back it up. But that's just me.
03-26-2013, 06:50
thebolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

Just hoping they can keep track of LEO on our side, like the majority of CO Sheriffs, and keep them out of the hands of the likes of the douche PC of Golden.

The
03-26-2013, 07:04
jslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

MAJOR FAIL on your part. You want magpul to have every buyer sign a loyalty oath or something?
Are you also in favor of ALL GUN SALES BEING KEPT TRACK OF?? SOUNDS like a Bloomberg thought process you have going there.

Seems like you occasionally have a problem with reading comprehension, it's MagPul's thought to have them "sign a loyalty oath or something" (as in "promise") not mine. If MaGpul can figure a way to sell to LEO that supports all 2A rights, I'm all for it. But, their "promise" is not good enough anymore.
03-26-2013, 07:54
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

Seems like you occasionally have a problem with reading comprehension, it's MagPul's thought to have them "sign a loyalty oath or something" (as in "promise") not mine. If MaGpul can figure a way to sell to LEO that supports all 2A rights, I'm all for it. But, their "promise" is not good enough anymore.

If their promise isn't good enough sell your pmags.
Most "chiefs' if not all are political appointees. The 2 sheriffs who did not support the majority when it came to our rights are also located in counties that have a deeper blue tint than the rest of CO.
03-26-2013, 08:33
jslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

If their promise isn't good enough sell your pmags.
Most "chiefs' if not all are political appointees. The 2 sheriffs who did not support the majority when it came to our rights are also located in counties that have a deeper blue tint than the rest of CO.

In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, "There you go again", it's not MagPul's "promise" I'm concerned with it's anti 2A law enforcement agency's that may be able to change their "spots" for a chance to get MagPul products. I asked for opinions, and got them, and will assume MagPul will figure this out.

(Maybe it's my reading comprehension that's lacking)[Beer]
03-26-2013, 09:53
KevDen2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebolt

The Golden PD chief is purely an admin guy and only an officer on paper, which is why you would never see him with a gun. Ask him about the time he tried to arrest an armed robber where shots had been fired and he didn't have a gun with him. Direct confrontation and he didn't have his gun on, which was his normal practice back then. Old story but true and he should be embarrassed for his actions.

This is common with small town chiefs that rarely or have never pulled their gun because they spent very little time on patrol and moving up the ranks too fast. Our chief regularly likes to go to calls unarmed and be the first one there...even when suspects are reported to be armed. The regular comment he makes is, "You don't need to use force, you just hand badguys the handcuffs and they put them on themselves in this town." He is certainly detached from reality.
03-27-2013, 00:29
centrarchidae

Was that the time where he told his officer that he was planning to run the suspect over with his car?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebolt

The Golden PD chief is purely an admin guy and only an officer on paper, which is why you would never see him with a gun. Ask him about the time he tried to arrest an armed robber where shots had been fired and he didn't have a gun with him. Direct confrontation and he didn't have his gun on, which was his normal practice back then. Old story but true and he should be embarrassed for his actions.
03-27-2013, 06:45
thebolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by centrarchidae

Was that the time where he told his officer that he was planning to run the suspect over with his car?

He was out of his car and contacting the suspect in his get away car. He didn't have any way to protect himself.
03-27-2013, 07:05
Aloha_Shooter

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

(Maybe it's my reading comprehension that's lacking)[Beer]

There you go ... finally found the answer. I have no idea how you ever came to a conclusion that they were "wavering" from a statement that was issued early in the fight and that simply said they were trying to find a way to serve LEOs who were doing their duty to the Constitution. The whole OP and subsequent defenses of it were one massive failure in reading comprehension.
03-27-2013, 10:52
Jer

You know what would make this easier? If ALL citizens were citizens and not some created class of people who get more than those citizens who weren't in a protected class. The government creates classes in order to make passing restrictive laws easier and now it seems Magpul is doing the same thing. The more people who are affected by these BS laws the greater the efforts to overturn the unconstitutional laws. Try as they might to separate themselves from us they're just people like us too. Some are a better shot than some of us and some are worse. Some are more capable of handling high pressure situations and some are not. The duty of serving and protecting shouldn't end on the streets.
03-27-2013, 12:32
jslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

There you go ... finally found the answer. I have no idea how you ever came to a conclusion that they were "wavering" from a statement that was issued early in the fight and that simply said they were trying to find a way to serve LEOs who were doing their duty to the Constitution. The whole OP and subsequent defenses of it were one massive failure in reading comprehension.

Last comment. I don't consider March 1st to be "early in the fight" but understandable. After all they had a business to run and were taking the time to prepare and testify. Also the thread started as a question, hence the ?, and was meant to get others thoughts on their statement. It seemed to me they were considering a "promise" would be adequate to resume sales. We know who some of the "good" guys are and who some of the "bad" guys are. A promise from the ones that actively fought "us", IMO, is not good enough. I'll take a step back and watch how MagPul decides to handle it. Don't get me wrong, I support and appreciate everything they have done, so far.
03-27-2013, 13:23
CapLock

Couldn't they get in on the Boulder Air Drop being citizens of Colorado? I could see and would gladly go to the back of the line if some guy in the military needed PMAGs but how could LE be hurting for mags. Won't there be plenty around for them after July 1st when we are no longer worthy?
03-28-2013, 08:54
Inspector Fowler

Speaking as a cop, I can say that right now we are trying to outfit up to 5 new guys and our firearms sergeant was having a tough time finding Pmags for our guys. Same thing with rifles and EOTechs, etc.

Big departments might get front-of-the-line bulk ordering, but we're going to have to spend a lot of time trying to find a distributor who has rifles, magazines, and optics in stock who is willing to sell them to us, and we may have some guys who aren't well equipped for a while.

It's frustrating, but I'm a big "citizens are the police, police are the citizens" guy, so I don't see why the cops should get priority ordering unless it's for the same reasons that a big distributor would (bulk order, special order, etc).
03-28-2013, 11:27
Aloha_Shooter

The country in general used to believe police and military were there to help protect the rest of us. Helping them out with getting equipment wasn't so much conveying a special status as ensuring everyone's best interests were served by supplying those who protected our society. Unfortunately, the civic attitude has deteriorated over the past few decades, partly due to misbehavior by LEOs or military who copped an attitude but mostly (I believe) due to Marxist/anti-establishment forces who have actively tried to tear down the traditional structures that glued Western society together and made America powerful.

The comment that started this whole thread was based precisely on that problem: I believe Magpul generally wants to support military & LEOs because of their service to society; the difficulty is in weeding out the "I'm special" attitude types like John Morse.
03-28-2013, 11:33
losttrail

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniper7

Make them take an oath to uphold...something like....well I can't recall what it is....

Kind of like what our elected "representatives" take?

How's that working?
03-28-2013, 12:14
Jer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

The country in general used to believe police and military were there to help protect the rest of us. Helping them out with getting equipment wasn't so much conveying a special status as ensuring everyone's best interests were served by supplying those who protected our society. Unfortunately, the civic attitude has deteriorated over the past few decades, partly due to misbehavior by LEOs or military who copped an attitude but mostly (I believe) due to Marxist/anti-establishment forces who have actively tried to tear down the traditional structures that glued Western society together and made America powerful.

The comment that started this whole thread was based precisely on that problem: I believe Magpul generally wants to support military & LEOs because of their service to society; the difficulty is in weeding out the "I'm special" attitude types like John Morse.

So you think the primary causation of the common citizens distrust of LE is due to marxist/anti-establishment forces? You don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the significant ramp up of militarization of our LE forces as of late? The time you describe was when they carried .38 snub noses and a pump shotgun in the trunk. LE has come a far cry from that and with that power has come absurd abuse which is what is causing this increased distrust. They are upping their firepower while saying we need less and fighting to pass more restrictive gun laws for us peons. That don't set too well with me.