Ram Truck Purchase Decision - Need Someone to Kick Some Sense

I have been struggling with making a choice of a pre-owned 4WD pickup truck. I need someone to kick some sense into me, so I figured who better than the rowdies here at this site [Rant1]. So my invitation to you all is to challenge my thinking and tell me where I am screwed up. Here ya go . . .

Based on a similar price-point, the comparison comes down to:
Ram 2500 with Cummins turbo-diesel in model years 2003 - 2007 with fewer than 100,000 miles | VERSUS |
Ram 1500 with gas V8 (probably 5.7L Hemi) in model years 2008 - 2010 with fewer than 50,000 miles. The pickup will be a quad-cab 4WD with automatic tranny.

Some of my considerations are:

* I live in the Denver metro area and the truck will be a daily driver. It will NOT be a work truck. I expect to put maybe 10,000 miles per year on the truck.
* My primary reason for wanting a pickup is the utility of having a bed - especially when hunting season rolls around (think bloody carcasses and oozing guts all over the place [Beer]).
* I do not have a camper or trailer to be towed, although it is something I've been thinking about.
* Never owned a diesel before making it difficult to compare to a gas-powered vehicle.
* I am not a mechanic. While I can do all the routine maintenance, anything 'involved' requires me to hand it off to a real mechanic. Actually, as I write this, I am not even sure I know what the "routine maintenance" is for a diesel, so am unsure if I really can do it.

My focus has been on the Cummins diesel models, but when I really think about it, I am not sure this is the best choice. Much of my reservation stems from my ignorance of, and lack of experience with, diesel engines. I worry about things like; maintenance and repair costs, diesel fuel cost and availability, fuel economy.

On the subject of fuel economy, the diesel in those model years is NOT equipped with all the emissions garbage that kills fuel economy in later models. I understand that 20mpg is fairly common in the 2003-2007 model years. If true, this is considerably better than the gas V8 mileage which I understand is about 14mpg.

Maintenance and repair costs is a tough one for me to evaluate. The Cummins diesel has a rated life of 500,000 miles before needing an overhaul. I am not sure the gas V8 has an equivalent rating, but would guess it to be half that, or less. However, in reading about the Cummins diesels in those model years I find a number of fairly common issue with injectors needing replacement and there are frequent comments about the Dodge transmission not being very durable.

Reading about some of those problems with the Ram 2500 lead me back to looking at the Ram 1500 with a gas V8. Fuel economy sucks (literally and figuratively) with the Hemi engine, but the Ram 1500 line is definitely less expensive than the 2500 with a diesel engine, so I could buy a newer model with fewer miles for the same $$. The Ram 1500 satisfies the basic criteria of a 4WD with the utility of a bed for hunting season, but I lose some flexibility in that it cannot support a full camper like the 2500 can.

So what do y'all think? Should I go ahead with finding a decent turbo-diesel or opt for a more familiar gas-powered pickup?

Let me know.

You will spend a LOT more on mainteance on the diesel for a very minimal savings in fuel costs. For a DD, a Diesel makes no sense for you.

20mpg is attainable, though not stop/go city driving, and maybe not at all with an auto. Expect closer to 16-18.
Normal maintenance is pretty much the same, oil changes, filters etc. Oil changes run more, as youre needing 10-12 qts. Typical oil change interval is 5k instead of 3k.
Dodge autos are not the greatest, but likely with what youre talking about, no towing or occasional real light towing, it should be fine.
Fuel availability is really not an issue. More the issue is the other tards who will go to the diesel pumps when there are a dozen gas only pump available.

My own thoughts, owning a diesel because its cool is kinda silly, parts for diesels are much more expensive, ie wastegate actuator for 250 on that vintage. So the diesel will cost more in parts, and certainly paying for repairs. The trick being you shouldnt need big repairs for a long time, unless the tranny goes. Myself, so a driver, almost always empty, rarely if ever towing, go 1/2 ton gasser, but Id find something getting better mileage than 14. If in 96 chevy could get 18mpg in a 1/2 ton gasser, no excuse for not getting that or better a decade later.

You are not going to get 18 mpg is a 350 TBI Chevy without about $500 in mods. Once they got into the 5.3L (327LS) engines, 18mpg or better is probable, 2001 or newer.

I just went thru this. I picked up a diesel powerstroke. Without the need to tow or haul heavy loads the diesel is wasted.

My friend has a dodge 2010 1500 v8 and gets 14 city. 19 highway. This should more than meet your needs

I haul maybe %10 of the time but when I do I hit overload weight.

DHC- the V8 1500 will suit you perfectly. Have had an '05 that I share and drive about 2x a month... it does fine, sure it doesn't get the best fuel economy, but if you don't have a heavy foot you'll be okay. The only hurt is each time you fill up- I drop $60 and the tank is just over half full- it's a big tank. Those Hemi's won't run you into too many problems until around 100K... but my '05 1500 did have the radio go out at about 85/90K.

A 3/4 ton truck is great if you're going to use it as a truck with hauling or towing. Otherwise, all it translates to is higher fuel costs and repair costs. Remember, with a heavier truck you need load-rated tires, etc... Much more expensive. And you will go through tires much quicker with a heavy diesel truck. Fuel will be more expensive, too, because the mileage between the 1/2 ton gas vs 3/4 diesel will most likely be negligible. Other things like ride quality will suffer, too, with a heavier truck, though that may not be important to you.

If it's gonna be your daily driver/commuter I'd recommend the 1/2 ton gas.

no love for the diesels here :(

im in the process of swapping out my 454 for a cummins i cant handle 8-9mpg anymore

Nothing to do with love...it is about reality.

If you bought a 454 for towing or hauling, you made a bad choice in the first place...there a diesel is a good idea. For a DD, again, a waste of $.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cofi

no love for the diesels here :(

im in the process of swapping out my 454 for a cummins i cant handle 8-9mpg anymore

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I never said I didn't love diesels- but unless you actually get use out of them, I use the same logic Bailey just explained. I would love to have a diesel, I like the 94-02 Cummins body style, but I don't haul or tow often enough to really justify owning one.

im doing the 12v swap to DD

want to do a WVO conversion my buddie is using a pint of diesel ever 400mi!!!!!

Unless you are making biodiesel in your garage I'd go with the gas V8. The Hemi will still be able to get you and your kill back from hunts, you'll still be able to haul almost anything you would realistically need to. Long term, the savings in mileage will be reduced by higher fuel prices, maintenance and repairs.

Sounds like you need a Prius with a Yakima rack on top. That way you can strap a carcass down and call it good.......

get a cummins with a 6 speed I have 350,000+ miles on mine (speedo doesn't always work) and I get 21mpg with propane 17 without. Also it hauls ass and when I need to tow something it does it with ease. Also maintenance is cheaper IMHO since it hardly ever breaks and you can run the oil for 5,000 miles

My daily driver is a 2012 Chevy 2500HD gas. But I frequently haul heavy loads of firewood in the bed and bed/trailer.

My other truck is a 5-spd, 2WD, 94 F350 P-Stroke with 213k on the odometer. It's set up to haul a 4000lb Lance cab-over camper.

I love my diesel truck. They're just not the best choice for an everyday driver. Hell...no truck is the best choice for an every day driver unless you actually need a truck. But I don't do cars.

I have in recent years had:

99 Dodge Cummins dually
03 Ford F350 6.0 SRW CC
06 Ford F550 6.0 CC Dually
04 Chevy Duramax CC Dually
99 Chevy Tahoe (two of these actually)

By far the BEST milage has been the Chevy duramax. Loaded with two cars and equipment in a STEEL 40'f goose I averaged about 12.5mpg. Around town unloaded I got closer to 20-21, depending on how much highway I drove etc. Light or unloaded on the highway I would easily see 23-24mpg. The Dodge was OK, but it is an expensive bastard to maintain, and while the powertrain (5speed, not auto) was almost bulletproof, the rest of the truck is a POS. The two fords had good interiors, but the 350 rode like crap unless you had a very large load behind it, and the 550 never got better than 15mpg ever, unloaded, and about the same loaded.
The 99 Tahoes got 18 or so around town with me driving them, 16 when my wife drove, 9 to 11 when towing a 26ft enclosed trailer and one race car. However they were the easiest to park :)
The Dodge and Fords all had fairly consistent steering issues. Solid front end/kingpin arrangements mean ball joint wear and the need to be rebuilt/adjusted/etc. fairly often. The Chevys do not suffer this issue. With 280k on it the Duramax literally steers/rides like a brand new truck.

I would not recommend a diesel for an everyday driver, the cost involved is just not worth it. I would stick with a solid 1500 truck with a decent size engine- no V6- and suffer the milage penalty knowing that if you need to, you can drag a boat, camper, etc. behind you. The 99 Tahoe 4x4 was rated for 10,000lbs. The Cayenne (surprisingly) is rated for 7000lbs. Iffin it were me, I would purchase a single cab pickup if it was me and a hunting buddy, or a Tahoe/Explorer/etc. medium SUV and a small trailer if I needed to haul around more people on a regualr basis. Parking CC trucks- especially real trucks with a real bed- is not as fun as you might think it is.

As a sidenote my buddy just purchased a new Chevy extended cab fullsized truck and I think he is getting 22 or so mpg on the highway with the cylinder drop system, and another freind has the Dodge 1500 with the same sort of system and gets about the same milage, but they can both tow a reasonable amount.

Diesel is the only way to go! My 96 dodge 1500 could only do 50mph in some areas on I-70 headed to the mountains. Now my 7.3l powerstroke can do 80 mph the whole way there and get better gas mileage doing it. They are easy to work on and most of the expenses come in changing fluids and new tires. I change oil myself at 5,000 miles (compared to 3,000 with the dodge) and there are ways to go 10,000+ miles on an oil change. The diesel will last longer, retain more value and will have no lack of power whatsoever. Do as much maintenance as you can yourself and there will not be much more expenses in a diesel vs a gas motor. Also, you can look into making bio-diesel for around $1/gallon and save yourself a shit load of money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dwalker460

As a sidenote my buddy just purchased a new Chevy extended cab fullsized truck and I think he is getting 22 or so mpg on the highway with the cylinder drop system, and another freind has the Dodge 1500 with the same sort of system and gets about the same milage, but they can both tow a reasonable amount.

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That's great to know. I've been looking at either a midsize or full size truck - if a full size gas is getting anything greater than 16-17 that's phenomenal.

Unless you are pulling., buy a gasser.

Straight forward.

I was in the exact same boat in June of last year. I wanted to trade my 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee limited that was getting 12mpg. I too wanted a bed to haul my dirt bike (so i didn't have to get a trailer). I was weighing the gas vs diesel options and all the points stated above are valid. After a while, I set my sights on a 5.9 vs 6.7 cummins because I didn't want all the emission components and the 5.9 has been proven itself over the new 6.7. Then I wanted between years 2006 and 2007 (the first half of 2007 was 5.9's, the last half was 6.7's).

I know that the diesel will get better gas mileage, I can haul most anything, It will last longer, it will retain it's value, I've not heard of (and now experienced) any major issues, and the 5.9 only requires regular maintenance just like any other car (however it does require more oil). This is my DD too. In summer I get around 23-25 mpg (half city/half highway) and in the winter I'm around 20-22 mpg due to the cold and it not being able to warm up fast enough (I work nights and it sits outside and I don't plug the block heater in).

I'm very happy with my truck I don't regret anything. This truck is a blast and I will not be getting another truck until this dies.

If I didn't have 15K lb. fith wheel to tow or got a smaller trailer I'd trade my 4X4 powerstroke diesel for a 1/2 ton gas truck in a heartbeat. The only time I get better milage than a gas rig would is when I'm hauling the fith wheel. When I bought the truck and trailer (2007) diesel was averaging 50 cents per gallon cheaper than gas, now it's .50 higher. The extra milage doesn't offset the increased cost but I need the the pulling power in the mountains.

I drive an 05 Ram 3500 with the cummins and I do like it quite a bit. It is the first diesel that I have had, always had compact pickups before. Having the big truck has given me opportunities to haul big trailers and lots of weight that I would have had to pass on before. You will likely find that once you have the bigger truck you will wonder how you lived without it before.

That said, they do cost a lot more to maintain. The savings in fuel economy is also offset by the higher price of diesel. If I didn't have to haul big loads sometimes I would get another Tacoma. They get 18-20 around town on summer gasoline, tires last 50% longer and you don't need 3 gallons of oil for an oil change. Much easier to park as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

You are not going to get 18 mpg is a 350 TBI Chevy without about $500 in mods. Once they got into the 5.3L (327LS) engines, 18mpg or better is probable, 2001 or newer.

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my 2004 1500 w/30,000 4X4 15-16 mpg city

if you're a gear head that loves horsepower then get a diesel ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jreifsch80

if you're a gear head that loves horsepower and torque then get a diesel ;)

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I'll be the voice of discourse here and recommend a Mid Size Toyota or Nissan Frontier . Or the dakota with V8, You want a DD with good to decent MPG. You're in the city (parking) and only going to use for hunting, not pulling or hauling. Mid Size works very well.
Why full size other than Just Because? I am also suggesting Import because of this one sentence.

* I am not a mechanic. While I can do all the routine maintenance, anything 'involved' requires me to hand it off to a real mechanic. Actually, as I write this, I am not even sure I know what the "routine maintenance" is for a diesel, so am unsure if I really can do it.

If you have no clue, buy the best bang for the buck, overall lower maintenance cost and almost bullet proof. The UP / DOWN dise to metric UP= resale Down = resale. You'll pay more for a used import, then a big 3 unit.
Eventually we will sell the silverado and replace it with an import.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jim

I'll be the voice of discourse here and recommend a Mid Size Toyota or Nissan Frontier . Or the dakota with V8, You want a DD with good to decent MPG. You're in the city (parking) and only going to use for hunting, not pulling or hauling. Mid Size works very well.
Why full size other than Just Because? I am also suggesting Import because of this one sentence.

* I am not a mechanic. While I can do all the routine maintenance, anything 'involved' requires me to hand it off to a real mechanic. Actually, as I write this, I am not even sure I know what the "routine maintenance" is for a diesel, so am unsure if I really can do it.

If you have no clue, buy the best bang for the buck, overall lower maintenance cost and almost bullet proof. The UP / DOWN dise to metric UP= resale Down = resale. You'll pay more for a used import, then a big 3 unit.
Eventually we will sell the silverado and replace it with an import.

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x10000

if your willing to look at other trucks most of the midsize import stuff sounds like it will be a much better fit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk

Not much love for fords around here eh hahaha.

I drive an 05 F150 Crew cab, It averages about 16-17 MPG, and I can still tow well with it, there's tons of room in the cab for road trips and bringing groceries home, etc.

I have a 22 ft enclosed trailer for snowmobiling and I still get 11 MPG towing it with 3 sleds, 3 guys, and all our gear and gas for riding and camping for the weekend (I've set the trailer up for winter camping) It's got the power needed to do some pretty impressive towing, nothing crazy but not just little open trailer either. The cab is the best part, Since having a crew cab, I'll NEVER go back to an extended cab.

Would I like to have a diesel? yeah, do I need one? nope and the fuel costs when you calculate it, you'd have to tow ALOT to ever justify it financially.

So in summary, IMO, go with the half ton gasser for your purposes, and when needed you can still tow a considerable load.

I have an ecoboost and like it. I get around 16-18 around town and can be tough to park on an occasion. Tacoma's are hard to beat as a daily driver.

Heres a work truck, will burn moonshine if the price of oil goes too high. Yeah its a Chevy...but look at the price! Only thing I would add to this truck is a super large transmission cooler in front of the radiator and a drain plug to the transmission fluid pan.

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3657049528.html

Personally, I've found the smaller trucks really don't do any better on fuel than a full size so you might as well have a full size truck. In fact, I got rid of a Nissan Frontier because I figured if I was only going to get about 16 mpg I might as well have something a little roomier.

I get up into the mountains a few times a year pulling a small trailer and every time I do I wish I had a diesel. The rest of the time a gas engine suits me just fine.

My daily driver is a 2008 Chevy 3/4 ton with a 6.0 gas engine. Even loaded to almost full GVW the thing has plenty of power. Of course it only gets about 13 mpg on the highway. But keep in mind mine weighs in right at 9000 pounds and I don't pay for gas so I'm a bit heavy on the throttle all the time.

Wife has an '08 1500 QC 4x4 with the 4.7L flex fuel motor...makes for a decent daily driver
I know the hemi has instant torque, whereas the 4.7L doesn't...was still able to tow my 64 chevy p/u on a hauler with no problems..gas mileage towing is atrocious...11mpg if you're lucky.

Just cruising the interstate on gas it gets about 18mpg...on E85 it gets about 12mpg.

Only problem was the tranny crapped out at the 3 yr point, which was replaced under warranty no problems

We use ours about the same way you described your intended usage...if you ever want to do real 4x4ing/crawling I would get a 2500, or sumthin with a solid axle front end just for durability sake. For our hiway/lite 4x4 trail use when we go camping our is fine.

Get a full size diesel truck or get a car.

I went with a Nissan Frontier for a few reasons.

Cheaper than a full size
Gas mileage
Easier to maneuver in the mountains/trails

I get about 16.5 in town and up to 23 on the interstate. I wouldn't trade it for anything right now.

Roll coal

My Hemi SLT is a fantastic value. Not overly deluxe. Decent mileage, lots of power. The 2009 and up hemi has 390hp and near 400lbft torque.

the cummins is a bad choice for daily city driving, they are made to be ran hard, they need to be hammered against the limiter on a regular basis, towing a 10,000 lb trailer at least occasionally, a short commute will kill the pumps and injectors, stop and go they do not like at all.

i have been driving and towing trailers for 20 years, i have had everything from a cummins to a ford and currently have an 05 ram and a chevy 5.3

i love my ram, it will literally pull a house down, it does not even know my 35 foot fifth wheel is behind it, but the advantages to the diesel went away when the price of diesel jumped up past the cost of gas, the gains is mileage are offset by the additional cost of fuel.

the gasser is way cheaper to maintain. I had to do the injectors on my ram this last year. dealer wanted almost $6000 to install new ones, i did them myself, but parts were still $1700 for remans,

I could have done four sets in the gasser for that. tires cost more e loads kill me, i have yet to get more than $30K out of set on the dually,

I drive the chevy 5.3 as my daily driver, $.70 a gallon cheaper fuel and the mileage is better.