New to Elk hunting have a question about these two ammunition choices.

I have a 22 inch Winchester Model 88 in .308
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...Pix/delete.jpg

These two ammunition choices shot the best in my rifle which would be the best choice for Elk or is it a case of both being essentially the same for the purpose. Others have suggested moving up to 165gr but I would have to sight in the rifle again.

Federal 308 Winchester 150 Grain Soft Point

The Power-Shok bullet is built with an exclusive hot core process that eliminates the lead oxide layer that can cause core slippage. In addition the unique jacket profile and fluted tip ensures reliable expansion over a wide velocity range. An excellent all around choice for medium to large game.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: 308A
Caliber :308 Winchester
Bullet Type :Soft Point
Bullet Weight :150 GR
Muzzle Energy :2650 ft lbs
Muzzle Velocity :2820 fps
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...mages/3083.jpg
or

Federal 308 Winchester 150 Grain Barnes Triple Shock X-Bullet

Option for medium to large game. Vital-Shok is available in the world's finest big game bullets, from the unrivaled Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Nosler's latest offerings to Sierra and Barnes. Match that with world class brass, select powders and legendary primers and you get unmatched premium performance.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: P308V
Caliber :308 Winchester
Bullet Type :Barnes Triple Shock X-Bullet
Bullet Weight :150 GR
Muzzle Energy :2650 ft lbs
Muzzle Velocity :2820 fps
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...mages/3082.jpg

I would say for elk, go with the Triple Shock X-Bullet.

Of these options, I agree with car-15, BUT... I had to pump my first elk two years ago with several rounds before he'd drop when I was shooting with just 150 grain rounds. (All hits were "kill" shots in the primary vital's)

I strongly recommend 180 grain bullets. While the 150's give more range, you'll appreciate the 180 grain bullets instead of having to track the elk. I used 180 last year and dropped him right away.

I'm no expert, but...

My ex-father-in-law killed lots and lots of elk with his 270 Winchester and I believe 130gr non-premium bullets.

The difference in between between 150gr and 180gr is less than the weight of a 22LR.

The 180gr load often has LESS energy at the muzzle than the 150gr loading.

With that said, I'd probably look at the Black Hills Gold with the 180gr Nosler AccuBond or 168gr Barnes TS-X.

I don't think the elk is going to notice the weight of the bullet so much as the construction of the bullet.

if your in open country heavier is better, ive had to use 3 shoots before on a bull with a 300 win mag shooting 180 gr accubonds(the best bullet known to man... in my opinion) and 2 were to the heart, the final one i put in the spine when he tried to run again, but that was at 300+ yards. Its really about shot placement though, i know my dad put down a cow with a 25-06 in 1 shot.

First off, you didnt specify whether you had a cow or bull tag. A bull elk is a big, tough animal, and knowing what you were chasing would change my opinion more than a little.

While I am not one of these "can't kill an animal w/o the latest .999 Remchester Hypermag" types, I will say from long experience that a 308 with factory ammo is toward the bottom of the scale of what I would call adequate bull elk rifles. I think they are fine cow rifles, and often hunt cows with a 308 myself. I would shoot a bull with 308 if thats all I had, but it would damn well be a good 180g bullet, a near max. load, and under 200 yards. But thats just me.

I have seen bull elk hit solidly in the boiler room with 30-06's and 7mm mags run a LONG way before dying. One comes to mind where I was spotting for a guy, I watched a Federal Premium 7mm Rem Mag hit right where it was supposed to, and the animal was actually lost after a two day search.

That being said, I have made clean kills on cows with 44mag revolvers, so they are not invincible. All I am saying is that elk are harder than a lot of animals to kill (especially bulls) and first time elk hunters tend to underestimate the difference in size and "toughness" factor between them and deer.

Also, you mentioned that you would have to re-zero the rifle if you switched bullet weights. 1. You will have to fine tune your zero when you arrive at what 150g bullet you will be using anyway. I have one rifle with a POI difference of over 8" with two different loads of the same weight! 2. Thats a small price to pay for the extra knockdown power.

Someone mentioned the increased range (he actually meant decreased trajectory) of a 150g... to this I say that you have no business shooting at elk beyond the MPBR of a 180g when shooting a 308 anyway.

I guess the upshot of this little rant is any modern 180g hunting bullet would be better than any of the 150s in my humble but experienced opinion (other than the Remington Core-Unlocked, but I have a personal vendetta against that bullet). Given your choices I would give the barnes the nod, but by a very small margin. If you are going only after cows, and you are dead set on 150g, Id say that you are not doing anything unethical, but again it would not be my first choice.

P.S. Cool gun.

I agree that any 150 gr .308 bullet is somewhat light for elk hunting in most peoples eyes. I shoot a .308 aswell and i always used a 180 gr nosler partition. Just over the past few years ive begun shooting the 168 gr. just for the ballistics. My believe is shot placement is the key to successful humane hunting.
If you dont feel comfortable with the range and know you can make a good clean shot....dont take the shot period. I grew up hunting deer with a .22! Any grain bullet of any caliber can humanily kill an animal.....Shot placemant plain and simple. But of your two choices id go with the barnes.

Yes, pierce33, shot placement it key.

I've killed two elk with my trusty .270win with 150gr Winchester bullets. Both one shot. One at 200yrds. The other closer.

Another huge factor is the state of the animal:
-If you vital shoot a bull while he's sitting in his bed he will die.
-If you vital shoot a bull after he's been chased and has adrenaline pumping, you may be tracking for a long way. I've seen elk shot through vitals, and just keep marching uphill for half-mile or more, but they knew they were being chased.

Hunting Fundamentals:
-Stalking skills to get close enough for humane kill shot.
-Shooting skills(practice) to be able to deliver humane kill shot.
-Check your shots! It may look like you didn't hit the elk, but you could have. Go check for blood, and commence tracking!
-Choice of caliber/cartridge is secondary.

I have harsh words for the "hunter" who pounds lead into the tree-line and doesn't see anything drop so he just climbs back into the truck and drives off.

IMHO


Carbon_Unit

Placement is always more important than bullet weight and construction. .308 is plenty fine for elk. Your limitation wit this cartridge is the energy at distant targets(animals). I would think you could pick either for anything under 300yrds. And if that gun is your baby with the iron sights, you probably won't/shouldn't shoot out to that distance anyways. Which one grouped better would be my deciding factor.

The Barnes ttsx is ok for a bullet, but I shot a MO whitetail last year with a 120gr ttsx in my 280AI at a distance of 60yrds with a muzzle velocity of 3100fps and the exit hole was just as small as the entrance. obviously I didn't get to retrieve the bullet to see expansion. Lungs were jelly though. Did the job. I'd go with the accubond over the ttsx any day. Some bullets are just getting to fancy. What bullet has killed more animals than any other......lame ass boring core-lokt. I wouldn't shoot em but someone does and a lot of tags get filled with em.

Have fun!

you really need to look at the velocity/energy each specific load delivers to compare them

checkout the various ammo websites to check their numbers

some "experts" will give specific ft/lbs of energy requirements for the weight of an aminal

I think though that we should all want to put them down with authority for a number of reasons

Holy thread resurrection Batman.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...8/DSCN2466.jpg

I hunt muzzleloader. 385 grains. last year i blew through both lungs and he still managed to go about 20 yards before finally giving in.

What most people don't understand is Elk are just extremely tough animals. they will fight till the last breath. They are the UFC fighter of the game animals in CO.
They won't simply accept death like a deer. they fight it to the very end.

As to your bullets, I would go with the 180 grain. I have had family members take elk with 105 grain bullets out of a .243. It is about shot placement, and the kind of penetration the bullet gives

I would go with the Barnes bullets out of the two.

Why does everyone expect a "one shot kill" on an animal as large as a full grown elk? It's unrealistic and bad thought process. EXPECT to have to shoot multiple rounds regardless of the caliber.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SA Friday

I would go with the Barnes bullets out of the two.

Why does everyone expect a "one shot kill" on an animal as large as a full grown elk? It's unrealistic and bad thought process. EXPECT to have to shoot multiple rounds regardless of the caliber.

---

WHAT??? Think again. INTEND to shoot it where it counts on the animal and EXPECT it to die clean. Its not a war out there. Multiple shots should not be needed or wanted. I don't like wasting meat. Shoot it and track it if it runs. If it runs far then your shot placement sucked! And EXPECT to get your ass to the range and practice more before wounding game.

I realize this is an old thread, but I wanted to add my .02.

I had no idea so many other people had discovered what I have...namely the excellence of the Nosler Accubond bullet. I have killed 4 or 5 elk with them. They were all knocked down with 1 shot. One of my kills was even shot low, and barely grabbed the bottom of the belly at 185 yds. The cow made it about 15 yds and was dead when I made it up the hill. The Accubond had expanded and tore up the vitals with very little actual contact. I shoot the 200gr. bullet out of my .30-06 loaded to the max with Winchester 760.

I have only had experience with 2 other bullets. I started shooting Winchester Fail Safes, but they performed terribly. I shot one cow at 20 yards through the lungs, and it took off running. You could see the blood spraying out of the lungs. I shot it again in the front shoulder, and the bullet did not penetrate the bone (which is what the Fail Safe was supposedly designed for). The bullet hadn't expanded at all and was lodged in the shoulder without much damage. I switched the next year to the Accubond and Barnes Triple X.

I shot my cow that next year with the Accubond at 75 yards, 1 shot. The lungs and heart were obliterated. My buddy I was with wounded his (he was shooting factory loads of some sort), and couldn't hit it at 30 yards after we tracked it down, and ran out of ammo (It was his first hunt, and no, he can't shoot worth a crap [ROFL1]). I put it down for him by shooting it in the spine with the Triple X. Because I shot the spine, it was hard to tell how it really performs. The cow was dead instantly, and the spine was obliterated, but there wasn't a whole lot of expansion. I didn't stop shooting the Barnes Triple X because of the performance, I just really liked the Accubond's terminal performance, as well as it's in-flight performance due to it's high ballistic co-efficient.

Since then, I've shot several cows and one bull, and the Accubond has always had excellent terminal performance.

It doesn't sound like you handload, but I think Winchester was producing a factory load using the Accubonds for the .30-06 a couple of years ago when I looked. I'm sure they do one for the .308 as well.

Oh yeah, I think it goes without saying, but...shot placement can not be stressed enough. That being said, some bullets (in my experience the Fail Safe) do not perform well even with good shot placement.

Following blood trails suck, .458 Lott, 300gr monolithic solid. Meat in the freezer.

golly gee wally I and my cousin must be lucky. he uses a 308 and has killed alot of elk in 30+ years here. he got a 380+ score with it in Utah a couple years ago.
I use a Sako 06 with 165 grain, core lokt, and have to date killed 5 cows, and 3 bulls not one had to be tracked.
and i have killed 1 bull and 1 cow with a 35 Whelen 258 grain bullet, it really put em down, but it's not for the timid shooter. Ouch..

I just use a Barrett .416 and pick up the hamburger. J/K

.308 and .300 WSM have worked well for me in the past. 180's is what I prefer to use.

sounds like Craig Boddington,, he uses a Howitzer to hunt whitetails....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GunTroll

WHAT??? Think again. INTEND to shoot it where it counts on the animal and EXPECT it to die clean. Its not a war out there. Multiple shots should not be needed or wanted. I don't like wasting meat. Shoot it and track it if it runs. If it runs far then your shot placement sucked! And EXPECT to get your ass to the range and practice more before wounding game.

---

I'm at a gun range at least twice a week. My shooting skills are far from in question, and my reloads are better than anything off the shelf for accuracy and knock down.

There was nothing in my post about emptying a BAR or belt fed machine gun into an animal. There was nothing in my post about poor shot placement. My post is about the mentality of shooting one round and then sitting there gawking... If I can get a second round into the kill zone on an elk, I put another round into the kill zone of the elk, period. It's a faster kill, an easier track, and doesn't waste any meat. I've seen deer with no lungs run a mile. I've seen elk do the same. I've also seen elk drop on spot after being double lung shot. The point is, you just don't know. Being prepared to take a second shot on the elk and possibly doing so to ensure a faster kill SHOULD be part of the hunter's mind-set, not sitting there thinking about the first shot.

Many times a second shot is not necessary. Through observing the elks reaction you can usually tell if they are going far or not, but the hunter should still be ready for a follow up shot if at all possible.

I agree with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SA Friday

but the hunter should still be ready for a follow up shot if at all possible.

---

As in any shooting situation. Hunting or not. Just my .02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RRD3

I just use a Barrett .416 and pick up the hamburger. J/K

.308 and .300 WSM have worked well for me in the past. 180's is what I prefer to use.

---

pretty small. I usually pack in a 20 bore. I know it is expensive to shoot and a bit heavy but it really does nice work.

My secondary gun is the barret M82. I try to be humane[Beer]



j/k I haven't hunted elk with a rifle...only muzzleloader. I've taken deer with my .243 with ease out to 350 yards. I don't even really have a good elk rifle...it will probably be a .308