White Priveldge Confrence

[TheGrey]

Where do I start?

If I'm a bad guy for being politically incorrect for speaking my mind, so be it.

Rucker- I hope you enjoy your Jamesons. I challenge you to provide me facts that they are not given enough already, as obviously you are an advocate of doing more. To address your second hypothetical; based on my experience; the answer is yes. Those who truly wish to rise above and excel in life find ways.

For Grey and Jack: notice I state MOST woman; not all. I have seen very career oriented women in my years of graying, but they are the exception, not the rule. Is it a social stigma? Perhaps, but I'm not an anthropology major, so I can't say for sure. Glass ceilings-definitely. Biologically inherent; I think so; men can't give birth or nor nurse.

I understand that, but this is what you also posted:

It's a good thing I haven't been drinking..

Rucker, with all due respect, I call bullshit. Woman and minorities are given priority due to Affirmative Action in today's employment market in case you haven't noticed. Somehow, this video fails to call out what some board members have already stated; your screwed if you try to land a job, especially with a Federal contractor, sub, or otherwise, that has the beloved "AA" standard its trying to meet.

And I will say this, be a white person (I don't care which sex) and walk down some parts of LA, Chicago, Detroit, DC, et al, and see exactly who feels "discriminated" against. Oh, I'm sorry, its whities fault you can't do that because those people haven't been spoon-fed enough welfare, food-stamps, and Medicaid to stop being criminals, pull their heads out of their asses, and be productive members of society...

Privileged my ass, I work for what I have. Some "underprivileged" may want to try it.

This bolded portion is what I most object to, because as much as the media loves to hype this fact, it is not true. Just as you have worked for every inch you've gained, so have the very people you are decrying as "given prioroty" due to Affirmative Action. Does Affirmative Action sometimes step in? Sure. Do some minorities get hired over other people? Sure. You did not state "most" in this situation, and I don't think even "most" would work in this particular point.

That's what I object to. I am not stating that people in this thread have not worked hard for what they have earned; but that also goes for some of the people you're suggesting have been given some sort of advantage through Affirmative Action.

[Irving]

That Pancho was brought up at all is pathetic.

This is a sensitive topic. We are forced at work to attend a half day diversity seminar. It was mostly bullshit, and pissed me off the whole day. Right after they make you read some article that tries to shame you into white guilt, the girl leading the seminar tells how the high school she went to had only one or two people of color and it was such a rich school. I wanted to say, "Oh my GOSH, I'm SOOOOOO SORRY you had to go to school with rich white kids, I feel so terrible for your situation." The way she delivered the story was so shitty. I'm pretty sure she was talking about Cherry Creek by the way. Anyway, right after that, they run you through the list of all the different diversity groups they have in the company, including the "White Males" group, which they openly laughed at. By the way, each of those diversity groups has some description for what the group is about and the White Males group definition is basically about getting along with non-white people.

On the flip side, guys in here are coming off sounding like a bunch of total assholes. I've never been comfortable with this subject because both sides like to spout utter bullshit.

I'm sure each workplace is different. I can name names of men who have been paid significantly higher than women doing the same job, with the same, or even less qualifications. You could have a scavenger hunt for black people at the place I work. Then again, I was probably too white to be a Denver cop, and didn't even bother applying for scholarships when going to college.

To answer Rucker's question, no I wouldn't trade places.

[<MADDOG>]

Sorry, don't think I've advocated one way or the other here. I can't give you facts on whether they have enough without some way to measure. How would you say that we could objectively measure what "enough" is?



Interesting/

I do believe in one doing his or her own research when posing a question, so feel feel free to research the statistical percentages of welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid recipients broken down by racial background and post in this thread. At the same time, please post the data for financial aid/grants broken down by the same classifications. There is a disparity in numbers, especially if broken down into the population as a whole, and I leave it to you to surmise as to why...

But I digress; and Teufelhund said it best in a succinct manner "a local university is now holding a four-day seminar demonstrating how being racist toward white people is not only acceptable, but preferable". Our society has taken such a 180 that we believe that some people (IE: race/gender/sexual orientation,etc) are more equal than others; and we as a society are accepting this as the de facto, and someday, we may be reaping the benefits of that mentality. IE: instead of looking at a person's true colors (and in my view, that is work ethics, honesty,etc), we immediately paint them with their skin color (and organs in the case of this post). Kind of goes against the rights we hold so dear, does it not?

[TheGrey]

I do believe in one doing his or her own research when posing a question, so feel feel free to research the statistical percentages of welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid recipients broken down by racial background and post in this thread. At the same time, please post the data for financial aid/grants broken down by the same classifications. There is a disparity in numbers, especially if broken down into the population as a whole, and I leave it to you to surmise as to why...

But I digress; and Teufelhund said it best in a succinct manner "a local university is now holding a four-day seminar demonstrating how being racist toward white people is not only acceptable, but preferable". Our society has taken such a 180 that we believe that some people (IE: race/gender/sexual orientation,etc) are more equal than others; and we as a society are accepting this as the de facto, and someday, we may be reaping the benefits of that mentality. IE: instead of looking at a person's true colors (and in my view, that is work ethics, honesty,etc), we immediately paint them with their skin color (and organs in the case of this post). Kind of goes against the rights we hold so dear, does it not?

The pendulum has definitely swung to the far side of the pit. It's frustrating to see the values that we've grown up with being disparaged.

[Rucker61]

I do believe in one doing his or her own research when posing a question, so feel feel free to research the statistical percentages of welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid recipients broken down by racial background and post in this thread. At the same time, please post the data for financial aid/grants broken down by the same classifications. There is a disparity in numbers, especially if broken down into the population as a whole, and I leave it to you to surmise as to why...

Seriously, I need a metric. What defines "is enough"? Unless we agree on that definition, no amount of research is sufficient to answer the question. My background is mathematics, and the first item that has to be agreed upon is the definition. Preferential treatment in jobs, in college admissions, those are a start. Do we also include metrics of conviction rate and length of sentence for the same crime for whites and non-whites? Do we look at pure test scores for college entrance and also include discrimination against Asian candidates as compared to the population as a whole? How about quality of elementary education, as measured by items like classroom size, number of books in the library per student, etc.?

But I digress; and Teufelhund said it best in a succinct manner "a local university is now holding a four-day seminar demonstrating how being racist toward white people is not only acceptable, but preferable". Our society has taken such a 180 that we believe that some people (IE: race/gender/sexual orientation,etc) are more equal than others; and we as a society are accepting this as the de facto, and someday, we may be reaping the benefits of that mentality. IE: instead of looking at a person's true colors (and in my view, that is work ethics, honesty,etc), we immediately paint them with their skin color (and organs in the case of this post). Kind of goes against the rights we hold so dear, does it not?

Yep, that class and that mindset is fucked up.

[coyote3]

[<MADDOG>]

I understand that, but this is what you also posted:




This bolded portion is what I most object to, because as much as the media loves to hype this fact, it is not true. Just as you have worked for every inch you've gained, so have the very people you are decrying as "given prioroty" due to Affirmative Action. Does Affirmative Action sometimes step in? Sure. Do some minorities get hired over other people? Sure. You did not state "most" in this situation, and I don't think even "most" would work in this particular point.

That's what I object to. I am not stating that people in this thread have not worked hard for what they have earned; but that also goes for some of the people you're suggesting have been given some sort of advantage through Affirmative Action.

You are correct, and my apologies. I did not state "most" women, but that was my intent.

However, I will not retract the AA commentary. The fact that a person is hired or otherwise chosen because of his/her/their "AA" status instead of his/her/their capabilities is bullshit in my opinion. My simple analogy on AA; I am forced to go find one of the Rosanne Barr look-alikes in the bar... Not because of her (his if your a female) quality or quantity, but just because she (again, if you are a her - he) is a Rosanne Barr look-alike. Again, I am not politically correct, but I am trying to interject some humor!

[Watermagnet]

Would you trade places with any woman or any other race? I know I sure wouldn't.

You clearly haven't tested with a civil service city to obtain a job, ever heard of the "rule of 3's"...They want to hire 50% of the minority applicants even though they = 5% of the testing populous. Hopefully they're responding to your house and not mine. White/Black/Yellow/Brown/Green I want the most qualified person, not the most under-represented to save me and mine. To each their own...

You didn't answer the yes or no question. I worked hard to get where I am, too. Still wouldn't trade places with any of those so called priviledged underclass, because I know that being a white male in the US puts me in the best position. Racism and reverse racism exist, as does sexism and reverse sexism. Telling us how you are or are not affected isn't data; it's an anecdote. As a class, white males have it better, on the whole, than any other race or gender group. Why are the women and minorities given preference? Because, in general, they can't compete on an equal footing. And why are you trying so hard to work for the .gov?

Acceptance of this term = horse shit...Discrimination = Discrimination = Discrimination. The definition of discrimination is " the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently". For someone that wants mathematical/scientific evidence of everything you're sure willing to accept a societal definition of an imaginary term.

[<MADDOG>]

Seriously, I need a metric. What defines "is enough"? Unless we agree on that definition, no amount of research is sufficient to answer the question. My background is mathematics, and the first item that has to be agreed upon is the definition. Preferential treatment in jobs, in college admissions, those are a start. Do we also include metrics of conviction rate and length of sentence for the same crime for whites and non-whites? Do we look at pure test scores for college entrance and also include discrimination against Asian candidates as compared to the population as a whole? How about quality of elementary education, as measured by items like classroom size, number of books in the library per student, etc.?

Rucker; I appreciate your argument, but I do not have the time, patience, or Six Sigma skills to provide you an answer that may pacify your appetite for numbers and a counter-point. Again, in my mind and opinion, the stats derived from simple research is all I need to define "enough" is enough. What the underlying cause for those numbers is beyond the scope of this discussion; and does not detract from the original post's objective...

[<MADDOG>]

The second video is much better...Far less satire and easier to grasp under alcohol inducement..