Nearly naked rape victim left outside as frightened homeowners call 911

[muddywings]

I'm not calling you "wrong". Its just that you need to be aware that fake "I'm in trouble" is the opening of a classic home invasion scenario. Caution.

<< former leo. I'm aware but would still do it "wrong" per the general consensus here. Also I don't have kids so I found that aspect enlightening.

[buffalobo]

We use extreme caution when responding/answering the door, even if expecting visitors. You get to stand on the porch and listen to the dog bark for a minute or two while I check you out from several spots inside the house. Maybe I answer, maybe I don't.

[james_bond_007]

...which is why nobody would use a crying woman to get you to open the door so they could rob you...

You are assuming ALL criminals come prepared with a well thought-out plan and that they have considered several approaches and picked the best one.

Some do.

Others don't.

There are others that decide on the spur of the moment "Hey there's a house over there. Let's go have some fun.", not knowing what they will do or how they will do it.
They sort of "make things up as they go along" with no real plan.
(Somehow a few scenes from "A Clockwork Orange" are shuffling through my memory).

If someone wanted to rob the house in the article, and it was really "that" rural, would-be robbers might just watch it for a while, determine the number of occupants, and wait until those occupants left...but that is the difference between a thought-out plan, and a spur of the moment decision.

Also, the article does not describe the occupants (unless I "missed it"). Were they young or old (80's ? ) Any other people in the house (children ? ) ? Had they had or known of anyone that had any similar situations "go bad....really bad "? Did they have any weapons ?

In my opinion, they didn't do anything really wrong...but they did not go out of their way to do anything exceptionally "right". They were sort of middle of the road ---"cautiously helpful" by calling the cops.

Many of us don't even like Craigslist customers to come to our house during the day when we are selling something, and we choose to meet them in a public place, for"safety" reasons etc.
Many forum members don't even like to meet new people at their house for "deals"...until they get to know them a bit.

So, I think we are ALL a bit cautious, to some extent.

Things have gotten to where you can't tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" sometimes.
I think we'd ALL like to help someone, providing we didn't have to risk our (and our family's ) safety with the "unknown".

I'm sure that if I heard a knock on the door and a screaming woman at midnight, I'd ALSO be cautious.

[hurley842002]

You are assuming ALL criminals come prepared with a well thought-out plan and that they have considered several approaches and picked the best one.

Some do.

Others don't.

There are others that decide on the spur of the moment "Hey there's a house over there. Let's go have some fun.", not knowing what they will do or how they will do it.
They sort of "make things up as they go along" with no real plan.
(Somehow a few scenes from "A Clockwork Orange" are shuffling through my memory).

If someone wanted to rob the house in the article, and it was really "that" rural, would-be robbers might just watch it for a while, determine the number of occupants, and wait until those occupants left...but that is the difference between a thought-out plan, and a spur of the moment decision.

Also, the article does not describe the occupants (unless I "missed it"). Were they young or old (80's ? ) Any other people in the house (children ? ) ? Had they had or known of anyone that had any similar situations "go bad....really bad "? Did they have any weapons ?

In my opinion, they didn't do anything really wrong...but they did not go out of their way to do anything exceptionally "right". They were sort of middle of the road ---"cautiously helpful" by calling the cops.

Many of us don't even like Craigslist customers to come to our house during the day when we are selling something, and we choose to meet them in a public place, for"safety" reasons etc.
Many forum members don't even like to meet new people at their house for "deals"...until they get to know them a bit.

So, I think we are ALL a bit cautious, to some extent.

Things have gotten to where you can't tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" sometimes.
I think we'd ALL like to help someone, providing we didn't have to risk our (and our family's ) safety with the "unknown".

I'm sure that if I heard a knock on the door and a screaming woman at midnight, I'd ALSO be cautious.

Good post!

I just want to make it clear, before my son came, I would have most definitely helped. That little guy has changed me a lot, and now all of my decisions are with him in mind.

With that said, I wanted to further expand on one of my previous comments. I don't trust the media, the courts or the politics of it all, to not hang me at the stakes for being a good Samaritan. I hate that the world has come to this, and I hate that it must be that way, but I'm no good to my family if I'm sitting in a prison cell. My firearms are to protect me and my loved ones, they are the only ones worth putting myself in Zimmerman's shoes.

[CapLock]

I've seen a chick getting her ass beat in front of my door before. I opened the door with a Winchester Defender 12ga. Yea it saved her ass from being beaten a little. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have just called the cops and left it at that. It was put to me like this. Do you think this was the first time? Answer NO. Do you think it will be the last time. Answer NO. I couldn't help some dumb bitch who didn't want to help herself. Ended up having to move and I hate dealing with others drama. I wasn't wanting to be a tough guy I just acted without thinking it through.
I'm still not sure if I made the right choice or not years later. No way could I say anything about these homeowners other than they called 911 and thats all they "HAD" to do.

[Ronin13]

This whole scenario and discussion kind of reminds me of the Kitty Genovese ordeal... The article never said anything about the attacker being present at the home- just said the girl got away and went to a house for help... In that scenario, I would arm myself, call 911, and probably try to help the girl- but would remain cautious in case it's a set up. Then again, I have my brother to back me up and he can be armed to the teeth in a moment's notice. I understand the what-ifs, and that's fun, but in real life you have to judge the situation, you can't just say "I'd do this"- too many variables, I'm simply stating that I would much rather help, in case it's the real deal and not some ploy. Burke put it best "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing." However, I would consider protection of your family and a call to 911 doing something... not pussy, just erring on the side of caution. I don't have kids though so I can't really blame someone for putting their children before being a good Samaritan. But for me, what I'd do, most likely would involve help rather than suspicion, but that's because I live in Evergreen, and this kind of thing hardly ever happens, and it's even less likely to be some gangland feint attempt at a strong arm home invasion.

ETA: I have two mitigating factors though in my case- I live across the street from a firefighter, have a guy down the street who has guns, and I'm less than a mile from both a fire station, ambulance barn, and JCSO mountain precinct, the response time would be next to nothing here.

[rondog]

I grew up in Oklahoma. The exact same scenario happened at a rural house a few miles north of town. When the homeowner opened the door he was greeted with a shotgun blast from someone in hiding. And this was well over 30 years ago.

I'll be goddamned if I'll open my door in the middle of the night for ANYBODY until my M1 carbine loaded with the nasty hollowpoints is in my hand, the chamber is charged, safety's off, and the laser is on. Meth whores feel no guilt about being bait.

I just love this handy lil' feller.....

[Skip]

I grew up in Oklahoma. The exact same scenario happened at a rural house a few miles north of town. When the homeowner opened the door he was greeted with a shotgun blast from someone in hiding. And this was well over 30 years ago.

I'll be goddamned if I'll open my door in the middle of the night for ANYBODY until my M1 carbine loaded with the nasty hollowpoints is in my hand, the chamber is charged, safety's off, and the laser is on. Meth whores feel no guilt about being bait.

I was going to post something similar. The "lady is distress" ruse is very old and highly effective. The values that make us defend our families are the same values that would encourage us to help out a victim.

I agree with you 100%. I would be armed and attempt to limit the risk to myself. Maybe exiting the house and locking the door behind me so my family is safe.

Of course you never know who is at the back door either...

[sniper7]

ETA: I have two mitigating factors though in my case- I live across the street from a firefighter, have a guy down the street who has guns, and I'm less than a mile from both a fire station, ambulance barn, and JCSO mountain precinct, the response time would be next to nothing here.

Doesn't matter where the cops are honestly. In rondogs scenario the ambulances just wouldn't have to drive as far to grab your body.

Everybody wants to be a hero and I like the idea too. But at the end of the day bringing her inside does nothing but open you up to risk. Opening the door opens you up to risk of attack as well even if it isn't her that's in on it. The guy could have followed with a knife and while you are wrapping a towel around her the guy stabs you in the back or shoots you. Then the door is open, he has his victim, the rest of your family is at risk and you are now critically injured or dead.
I'll keep my door closed unless she is being attacked outside my door but even then I question it.

Look at the people in the trayvon martin deal. They called the cops and are now witnesses. If a hero ran out of his house and shot either martin or Zimmerman that guy could be in a world or hurt and have the legal and financial burden on him instead of the two involved.

I know each scenario is different and j think the ultimate goal is to never be in any of those scenarios but if I end up in one, my own ass and my family comes first.

[rondog]

Maybe exiting the house and locking the door behind me so my family is safe.

Oh no, fuck that! BAD idea!!! BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!! Charging out into the unknown, and locking your escape route behind you?

Ever take first aid training and been cautioned about taking chances to help someone? Ever heard of the "now we have to rescue the rescuer" scenario?

my own ass and my family comes first

Bottom line, right here.