Thinking I may break down and finally get something in 9mm

[Irving]

9mm is so weak, I play beer pong with it.

[RRD3]

Shoot em in the head and save yourself.

Bad idea here. The neck muscles are some of the fastest twitch muscles in the human body. Center mass... but anything in the body is better than missing.

[Jer]

I'm going by Coroner reports out of L.A. The busiest Coroners office in the country. This is THEIR report about autopsies in their office.

There is a "higher" potential for a 9mm or .32 to bounce of bone.

I did NOT say or did the report say that ALL 9mm ALL of the time would do so.

True but your post did nothing to discredit that assumption. People reading your post and glossing over it will come away with the idea that 9mm will somehow bounce right off of bone if used for a self defense round. I tend to disagree with this statement as being more comedy than informative. I continually come across people typing on forums about how inferior the 9mm round is when used against human beings but I have yet to find one of these posters willing to stand in front of one of my Glock 9mm (17, 19 or 26 depending on the day of the weak) handguns chambered in Ranger SXT rounds to prove it will bounce off of their sternum. I call it the '9mm will bounce of of a denim jacket challenge' so just let me know if you're willing to accept the challenge. I doubt I'll get any takers this go 'round either.

There are also a LOT of pros to 9mm over .45ACP that I don't see mentioned and since it's been stated that this shouldn't be a caliber debate thread I will save it for another day but please stop spreading this foolishness about the 9mm Luger round not being able to penetrate human bone because if you use FMJ and catch just the right angle a .45 will bounce in the exact same situation and these are rare no matter the caliber. It's not common enough for anyone to volunteer to stand in front of me and take a slug from 10' away that's for sure. If you prefer the .45 and a 1911 then hey, good for you. I'm sure it will kill someone just the same so I'm not going to discredit it and to do so with a slug that is only slightly smaller is just foolish.

[Jer]

Bad idea here. The neck muscles are some of the fastest twitch muscles in the human body. Center mass... but anything in the body is better than missing.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!? Am I reading correctly and you're now insinuating that someone can turn their head to avoid a headshot? What do the speed of twitch of the muscles of the neck have to do with anything?

[BigMat]

I feel like I start every post like this…but so be it. I have seen a number of wounds after the action. I was on the ambulance. Pistols are fine, but I have seen a 12 gauge all but take a man’s arm off, not to mention what it can do to a head.

In terms of the coroners report I think the thing missing from that is who is shooting, I would venture to guess, based on what I have seen the 9mm's and 32's so forth are normally carried in drop guns by people with little practice in the hood. 40s especially but 45s as well are almost universally carried by people familiar with firearms and trained in their use. Basically what I am saying is, what was LA county’s report on shot placement? Thugs carry cheap small guns and generally can’t shoot.



In terms of the bullets bouncing, that's usually a good thing. One guy we had took a round to the pelvis and the round bounced up into his chest, kind of mulligan. The 22lr bounce is notorious and turns that little round into a killer, a partner of mine told me about a patient who was hit at the distal end of the humerus and it bounced back into his chest cavity, fatal.


I made the jump from a Springfield 45acp to a Glock 9mm, and it was a brutal transition for me, and took a few years to convince myself, but at the end of the day, when the zombies come, my bet, I will NEED a 30 round mag. More importantly after months of shooting both side by side and shooting in induced stress situations, I shot the Glock better, and leaned towards shot placement instead of caliber.


No hard feelings at all, I am currently shopping around for a 44 mag and I have some serious first love feelings for 1911s, but I have seen a 9mm do its job all right.

[RRD3]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!? Am I reading correctly and you're now insinuating that someone can turn their head to avoid a headshot? What do the speed of twitch of the muscles of the neck have to do with anything?

Wow.... your full of dick comments today. Yea... that's exactly what I was saying. Every one has the ability to dodge head shots, did you miss that in your "I know everything class"?


There is a reason every person who is trained is taught to aim at center mass. It's pretty simple... you hear a noise you head will turn in that direction a lot faster than the hole body.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Ultimately, it's the location of the shot that counts, then the caliber selection second. Bigger is better in stopping an assailiant, but any gun is better than harsh language. Shoot what you can shoot accurately. If you have to shoot someone, shoot them till you are out of ammo or the threat is neutralized.

+1

Thanks for some rational interjection ...

[RRD3]

I feel like I start every post like this…but so be it. I have seen a number of wounds after the action. I was on the ambulance. Pistols are fine, but I have seen a 12 gauge all but take a man’s arm off, not to mention what it can do to a head.

In terms of the coroners report I think the thing missing from that is who is shooting, I would venture to guess, based on what I have seen the 9mm's and 32's so forth are normally carried in drop guns by people with little practice in the hood. 40s especially but 45s as well are almost universally carried by people familiar with firearms and trained in their use. Basically what I am saying is, what was LA county’s report on shot placement? Thugs carry cheap small guns and generally can’t shoot.


In terms of the bullets bouncing, that's usually a good thing. One guy we had took a round to the pelvis and the round bounced up into his chest, kind of mulligan. The 22lr bounce is notorious and turns that little round into a killer, a partner of mine told me about a patient who was hit at the distal end of the humerus and it bounced back into his chest cavity, fatal.


I made the jump from a Springfield 45acp to a Glock 9mm, and it was a brutal transition for me, and took a few years to convince myself, but at the end of the day, when the zombies come, my bet, I will NEED a 30 round mag. More importantly after months of shooting both side by side and shooting in induced stress situations, I shot the Glock better, and leaned towards shot placement instead of caliber.


No hard feelings at all, I am currently shopping around for a 44 mag and I have some serious first love feelings for 1911s, but I have seen a 9mm do its job all right.

The report did say that a lot of these are gang on gang shooting in which gang members tend to go for the smaller caliber. But the report also has stats on LE shooting in cases where the officers had used 9mm, .40 and .45

The report which is some 18 pages long states that in a lot of the cases the autopsies the most damage that they see come from the .45 followed by the .40 and the 357 which is not seen that much since the introduction of the semi-auto's

I compete in long range matches, so I'm a placement whore. Round placement goes a lot further in stopping your attacker over caliber I agree.

I carry a H&K 40 over my .45 as I feel I get the benefit of both higher capacity magazines, less recoil and still get a little bit on mass.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Not a chance. I could care less about Chuck. I just dont idolize some film actor that would rather put his film career over the needs of this country and then be buried with FUCKING SAND FROM IWO JIMA. Fucking bullshit. My Dad, USMC 66-72 will probably not be buried with the Sand from Iwo Jima. Yet my Father actually served in a real capacity over that douche. Along with millions of others since WWII and during WWII who will not be buried with Sand from Iwo.

I"m not in the "Chuck is God" crowd but your hate here is misplaced. Chuck Norris did his time in the Air Force for 4 years. Born in 1940, he would have been a little too young to serve in either WW II or the Korean War but he DID pull a tour in South Korea shortly after the War while things were still pretty dicey. He got out in 1962 before the Vietnam War was even a whisper so give the man some respect. Chuck is no George Clooney or Michael Moore.

[Jer]

The 9mm and .32 have show that there is a high potential for ricochet off of the bones and away from vitals.

IE one shot verses 3, 5 or the clip.

Every one has the ability to dodge head shots

It's really pretty hard to take anything you say seriously. Perhaps you've watched a few too many movies. I'll have an intelligent debate with anyone who is willing to not make up facts and stats and has some semblance of intelligence but you've already failed all the prerequisite qualifications.