The Ant and the Grasshopper

[Gman]

Ineptocracy:
A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

[Hound]

I hear this kind of BS and it shows me what happens in an echo chamber. I think to a good friend who works on printing presses, is a ski instructor in the winter and a mortorcycle instructor in the summer. He pinches penny's, painted his own house to save money and still rides a grey 1988 Goldwing that he keeps in top shape. He is highly skilled and the fact is you have probably benefited from his work in promoting your business or in in the money you use (he has worked on the printing presses that print our money). He has stayed educated, credentialed and covers 4 states. He always seems to be on the road to support his wife and kid (who is challenged). He is a standup guy and for all he works he makes about 40K. He will NEVER retire, it was impossible for him to save enough and the fact is, even though he worked hard his whole life, will probably be the definition of your 'Grasshopper' at some point. My wife works her ass off and makes about the same. I know a lot of people like this. They work their ass off, hold down multiple jobs and yet still make the B-Ball game for their kid(s). I also know that last Friday another friend made over 10k in a single day on stocks because he is in a profession that makes more money in general. He could have slept all day and still made the money. He is in security and helps protect all of your credit cards, 401ks and personnel information. His job is important and he could easily be considered the ant but is no more important or working any harder than my other friend. He is nothing compared to those bringing in millions who work less and yet reap far greater rewards. There is no reason that he should make in one day what another, working equally as hard makes in a quarter. Now before the whole socialism cry starts I am not saying that there should not be any wealthy people or that there are not free loaders our there. What I am saying is that the playing field is not even. The opportunities are not even and that is not what the American dream is founded on. If we go back to that B-Ball game as an annolgy nobody would agree with a 30 point lead by one team(or one family starting out with more money), refs from that team (a tax structure that has the rich paying less than middle or lowwer income) and a basket at 8' instead of 10' for that team (when you run in that crowd it is easier to stay in that crowd). There are a lot of 'Grasshoppers' out there that play by the rules and still struggle when getting government support. I have buddies from my time in the Navy that are still in and that get food stamps. They are anything but 'grasshoppers'. For the majority of the 20th century there was a 91% tax rate. For a long time Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby and Fred Astare and those types were paid within a few dollars of each other because if you went over a set amount it just got taken by the gov. This is also considered by most economy's to be the healthiest economic time America ever saw, with the strongest middle class we have ever had. Now you might again scream socialism but wait. I said they did NOT get paid more so the government did NOT collect that money. It stayed in the commercial world. The rich still had their mansions, speed boats, cars and vacations. So what happened to that money. Unlike today where somebody like Bill Gates has amassed billions of dollars and is in effect spending the rest of his life giving it away.... (Which is charity) the money had to be put back into either the business or more likely the employees. Wages were higher for the average Joe as a percentage adjusted for inflation. Business's did not want to pay taxes then anymore than now. There were still 'rich' but it was not a Monopoly game where people like my buddy only made 40k so that his boss could keep up the summer house. There is a limit to where wealth is legitimate, where it becomes more about getting on Forbes top 10 list instead of living by the idea of an honest pay for an honest days work. When an EOD tech, diffusing a bomb is paid closer to the same as a CEO then we are getting closer to what is 'right' for the work done. Capitalism has its good points but the railroads would not have spread across America were it not for Government intervention. To make it more modern, the Internet has not been evenly spread outside of the populous areas (btw primarily Democrat) except where the Government has provided incentives. In the latest crash the 'Grasshoppers' were not freeloading NPR.. PBS welfare recipients they were the wealthy getting corporate welfare and none of them going to jail but instead riding on the back of what is left of the middle class. Raise the minimum wage.... Um ya. If you are WORKING you should be paid a working wage for a normal 40hr week. That means you should be able to aford a place to live, food, maybe save some for the kid to go to college, etc. Tax those with more so money is put back into the economy... Um ya. No CEO is making 'the big bucks' without a good work force carrying the heavy load. Should they make more probably. In the 70's the top management made 70 times what the janitor did. That is closer to 1000 times the janitor now. CEO's aren't doing any more work now as opposed to then.

I am for the average person playing on an even playing field and working their way up to where they can continue that even playing field with their kids. I am not for an arostocracy that was removed from this country in the late 1700's. I am for allowing those that can excel to excel while they contribute to what created them in the first place not for the establishment of a modern fiefdoms. I am not for going back to a time of selling my sole to the company store, which is were my buddy on the presses currently is to be thrown away when he can no longer work..... along with the rest of those grasshoppers!

[UncleDave]

Hound you are missing the point completely. A grasshopper is a lazy person who refuses to work, not someone who works hard but never has great financial success. Apples and oranges. Equal opportunity does not mean equal results. You used the example of Gates. How many jobs are now based off what he brought to market, whole industries. That is why he made as much as he has. Your friend who repairs printing equipment, how many jobs has he created? I am sure he is a great man, but in a free market economy your financial rewards should be equal to the amount you contribute to economy as a whole. Opportunities still exist, if you have the brains and the guts. There is no great reward without great risk. I do not agree with corporate welfare any more than I do with welfare for those that refuse to work. If you can't compete you die, that is business. The constant class battle that people want to promote only serves to divide.

[hollohas]

Hound, I'll repeat what UncleDave said. A man who works hard to provide for his family and holds down a job(s) is not a grasshopper no matter how much or little he makes.

This has nothing to do with dollar bills and everything to do with work ethic and ones desire to work to provide for THEMSELF as well as ones refusal to take (or even demand) a government handout.

Where you really lost me is where you state that you are all for people to be allowed to excel while they "contribute to what created them in the first place." That's the "you didn't build that mentality" and is simply wrong. Believe it or not, people can be successful WITHOUT being "created" by someone or something else. I'd love to hear who or what you think "creates" successful people. The government? Society in general? And that statement is a thinly disguised admittance that you expect successful people to redistribute the fruits of their successes.

[Mtn.man]

OK Hound's rant I give it a -3
1.For non comprehension of OP.
2. For a ridiculous post that NO one wants to decifer.
3. And he is checked off of the Piggy roast roster.

[Hound]

No what I am saying is that not all gov assistance is bad and not all captialism is good. As far as Gates how many industries were crushed by that monopoly. How many jobs lost to consolidate under the M$ umbrella. I lived watching them either buy you out or crush you with lawyers while they STOLE your idea. How many layoffs do we see as these mega mergers continue to kill competition. The constant worshipping at the alter of unregulated capitalism get us monopoly's that actually are the antithesis of true capitalism. Meanwhile we keep taking away assitance from those working 3 and 4 jobs to support their family castigating them as welfare sycophants. Some of the reply's here are just parroting the ultra right and are as bad as the ultra left. People serving our country are not Grasshoppers nor are people like my buddy in the press for taking government assistance. People like Bill Gates start off as the eptiomy of the American dream and then warp it into a self privledged horror story that affect and destroy the middle class by building monopoly's. Greed is not good and was the cause of the Great Depression and the Great Recession. I am not comparing Apples and Oranges I am pointing to the real Grasshoppers. Those that think because the have money they deserve more votes than the average man, those that don't pay what a person is worth, those that think the shareholders are more important than the workers that REALLY built the company that makes them so much money, those that think merging companies or laying off people just to get a quarterly spike is some how American. There is a class battle and unfortunatly many have been suckered into thinking they are on top of the pile when in fact they are on the bottom. BTW... Both the left and the right have their own way of continuing this race to the bottom. It is not all one sides fault.

[Mtn.man]

I used to watch Kung Fu,,, grasshopper's.

[Hound]

Hound, I'll repeat what UncleDave said. A man who works hard to provide for his family and holds down a job(s) is not a grasshopper no matter how much or little he makes.

This has nothing to do with dollar bills and everything to do with work ethic and ones desire to work to provide for THEMSELF as well as ones refusal to take (or even demand) a government handout.

Where you really lost me is where you state that you are all for people to be allowed to excel while they "contribute to what created them in the first place." That's the "you didn't build that mentality" and is simply wrong. Believe it or not, people can be successful WITHOUT being "created" by someone or something else. I'd love to hear who or what you think "creates" successful people. The government? Society in general? And that statement is a thinly disguised admittance that you expect successful people to redistribute the fruits of their successes.

When you make it "big" it was a team effort. There is no one person that makes a company into a multimillion dollar company. Including Gates. You did not build it alone. Yes they should redistribute the fruits to EVERYBODY that was part of that success not hoard it at the top. I see developers getting low balled and told they are not worth the low wages paid while their long hours and work are key to the million dollar contracts. I have personally saved millions of dollars to the company and then had to argue about my own pay. No man is an island and that does not stop being true in business. I don't support returning to the aerostocracy that was the impetous of the Constitution. I do not belive in a time where the Lords own all the land, pass it to heirs and get all the profit while the sweat is paid by the commonor. If you do, go back to England.

[hollohas]

Dude, Hound, you're just ranting and missing the point. This is about hard work vs laziness. Not corporate greed and capitalism. And nobody said people who are serving the country are grasshoppers. Everyone was saying the exact opposite in fact.

[hollohas]

And PS..that bad guy Bill Gates...why don't you check out his foundation before you continue to say how greedy he is.