HK greatly expanding their US market

[Great-Kazoo]

I would take a rifle or two if the price was super great. You couldn't give me one of their clunky looking handguns - it would be like taking a fat chick to prom.

Light switches. They can be turned off, just sayin

[KestrelBike]

For those of us not in the know, why all the HK hate?

I'm plagiarizing a post I made elsewhere last year (and I was right about the Bundeswehr smackdown!):

Whoever handled HK USA was a complete idiot, and incapable of running a modern business. Rather, they were like that wealthy trust-fund kid born in the 1950's that married rich and had all his own private Class III toys in his bonus room, and damn every other gun owner and furthering gun rights. Their marketing sucked, their long guns were slaps in the face, and their appeal to the current generation of gun owners (ie the people splurging their hard-earned cash on the gun market today) is/was abysmal.
Here's everything stupid that HK did:
HK SL8 rifle: Let's take the G36 that everyone wants and mangle the F out of it, *purposefully* F with the receiver to ensure that stocks, magazines, etc are incompatible with it, oh and then pull it from the market and replace it with.... nothing* Not only do this once (SL8-1 the grey version) but twice (SL8-6 the black version).
*HK MR556: Put a piston-AR on the market for $3,500, but first produce only a trickle so US buyers can deal with low-supply/high-demand shenanigans. After all, you're just a small mom & pop company able to produce at a low ra... oh wait you're Germany's largest arms manufacturer? Yeah no f'ing excuse.
HK USC: more BS with the stock/receiver that was unnecessary. There's a difference between shipping the weapon with a compliant stock and leaving it up to the US civilian buyer to buy a legal stock at a later time, and making it so the receiver will never accept said stocks in the future unless they're cut up or some ridiculous 2" block is added to allow for a folding mechanism. Ditto the second chance (between the original Grey USC's and the later Black versions) squandered. I also understand that this thing was created during the 1994 ban, so I can see the 10rd mags. Thanks for never updating those after 2004. Great product strategy, guys.
This isn't an HK Because.Y.S.A.W.H.Y. rant, this is just saying that HK pretty much did everything they could to s*** on US buyers repeatedly for no reason other than pompous country-club mentality (IMO). They're like Judge Smails from Caddyshack. They're like that fat guy in austria living on his little farm in Band of Brothers that was suspected of being a commandant, that Liebgott and Webster were sent to investigate. Hell, and I even own an HK USP .45 (my first pistol, a bday present to myself when I turned 21).
No excuses because they're Germany and doing stuff is hard. Steyr (austrian, I know), and Sig Sauer both got functional rifles out on the market, and they're much smaller companies than HK. This is my shocked face that the civilian G36 is reportedly cancelled, because I don't trust a damn thing coming from those HK jackwads. I wish the Bundeswehr would tell them to go pound sand.

[roberth]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...aws-vs-people/

One thing that never fails to amaze me on this blog is that whenever one of our writers (myself included) or a staff member either posts a review or product announcement from Heckler and Koch, said article generates 60 plus comments in a day and of course the inevitable wiseguy chiming in with “because you suck, and we hate you”. The fact is that nothing could be further from the truth, in fact the HK/American consumer relationship is like a long distance affair between two people that is being supervised by two sets of parents, represented here by the German and American governments (albeit you can substitute the American government with most gun friendly nations). - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2....xFSl7rfP.dpuf

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/200...d-we-hate-you/

An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department:
In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

http://www.guns.com/2013/07/23/heckl...tract-inbound/

Heckler & Koch has taken on a large amount of debt over the years and currently owes more in debts than they have in total assets. However, business remains as usual for the German small arms firm.

[KestrelBike]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...aws-vs-people/

I remember that post, and he can say that all day long, but the facts and the marketplace don't support his position. HK USA might have wanted to do business, but papa HK over in Germany never allowed it.

Eta: I'm dumb and needed to re-read that article. HK Germany tried before, then gave up.

[Justin]

HK hasn't done anything interesting since the P7 series.

With the patents being expired, and HK no longer even making the P7, I sometimes find myself wondering if there's a large enough segment of American gun owners to support a small boutique company making high-quality P7, P7M8, P7M13, and P7M10 clones for about a grand.

[68Charger]

>bloomberg.com

I wanted to mention this, but it's kinda moot... HK and Bloomberg have similar attitudes.

For those of us not in the know, why all the HK hate?

Have you NOT read this thread? In a word, Elitism... go to Arfcom and I'm sure you'll see people wetting themselves... one of the reasons I'm here instead of arfcom.

[Honey Badger282.8]

I'm plagiarizing a post I made elsewhere last year (and I was right about the Bundeswehr smackdown!):

Whoever handled HK USA was a complete idiot, and incapable of running a modern business. Rather, they were like that wealthy trust-fund kid born in the 1950's that married rich and had all his own private Class III toys in his bonus room, and damn every other gun owner and furthering gun rights. Their marketing sucked, their long guns were slaps in the face, and their appeal to the current generation of gun owners (ie the people splurging their hard-earned cash on the gun market today) is/was abysmal.
Here's everything stupid that HK did:
HK SL8 rifle: Let's take the G36 that everyone wants and mangle the F out of it, *purposefully* F with the receiver to ensure that stocks, magazines, etc are incompatible with it, oh and then pull it from the market and replace it with.... nothing* Not only do this once (SL8-1 the grey version) but twice (SL8-6 the black version).
*HK MR556: Put a piston-AR on the market for $3,500, but first produce only a trickle so US buyers can deal with low-supply/high-demand shenanigans. After all, you're just a small mom & pop company able to produce at a low ra... oh wait you're Germany's largest arms manufacturer? Yeah no f'ing excuse.
HK USC: more BS with the stock/receiver that was unnecessary. There's a difference between shipping the weapon with a compliant stock and leaving it up to the US civilian buyer to buy a legal stock at a later time, and making it so the receiver will never accept said stocks in the future unless they're cut up or some ridiculous 2" block is added to allow for a folding mechanism. Ditto the second chance (between the original Grey USC's and the later Black versions) squandered. I also understand that this thing was created during the 1994 ban, so I can see the 10rd mags. Thanks for never updating those after 2004. Great product strategy, guys.
This isn't an HK Because.Y.S.A.W.H.Y. rant, this is just saying that HK pretty much did everything they could to s*** on US buyers repeatedly for no reason other than pompous country-club mentality (IMO). They're like Judge Smails from Caddyshack. They're like that fat guy in austria living on his little farm in Band of Brothers that was suspected of being a commandant, that Liebgott and Webster were sent to investigate. Hell, and I even own an HK USP .45 (my first pistol, a bday present to myself when I turned 21).
No excuses because they're Germany and doing stuff is hard. Steyr (austrian, I know), and Sig Sauer both got functional rifles out on the market, and they're much smaller companies than HK. This is my shocked face that the civilian G36 is reportedly cancelled, because I don't trust a damn thing coming from those HK jackwads. I wish the Bundeswehr would tell them to go pound sand.

Thanks for the reply. It's an interesting position that they've carved out for themselves.

Have you NOT read this thread? In a word, Elitism... go to Arfcom and I'm sure you'll see people wetting themselves... one of the reasons I'm here instead of arfcom.

Yes I read the thread, until Kestrels post though there wasn't anything descriptive enough. I will agree that arfcom sucks, unless you're willing to take a second mortgage out on your house they will spit on everything that's affordable over there.

[Zundfolge]

HK hasn't done anything interesting since the P7 series.

With the patents being expired, and HK no longer even making the P7, I sometimes find myself wondering if there's a large enough segment of American gun owners to support a small boutique company making high-quality P7, P7M8, P7M13, and P7M10 clones for about a grand.

The patents are expired and with modern CNC manufacturing I figure one could make a go of it (although a more realistic target MSRP would be $1200-1500)... the fact that Rohbaugh and Boberg still exist proves that boutique arms manufacturing is possible (and I'd guess that a well made P7 clone would do better than either Rohrbaugh or Boberg). Of course there is the cautionary tale of Microtech Small Arms Research.


The big problems with HK are that they don't understand that in the US market that US gun buyers want you to be a pro-gun political ally too. Also that American gun owners are not the idle rich like they are in Europe so we do shop based on price. The sad truth is that while they're fine guns the USP, P2000, P30 and VP9 are simply not worth significantly more than Glocks and trying to claim they are somehow upscale and deserve MSRPs almost twice that of Glocks is folly. You'll notice that when ATI brought out a value priced MP5 clone in .22lr that they sold a friggin boat load of them (before HK shut them down for copyright violation). Apparently HK didn't learn anything then.

[tmckay2]

i just don't like to buy guns from people who don't really want civilians to own guns. makes no sense to me. they sell them to civilians because they need the money. their price is also outlandish. don't get me wrong, they are fine guns, but they aren't significantly better than lots of other things and like others posted it isn't like they are a small shop unable to make volume for a reasonable price.

[Graves]

So in fairness, I am an HK fan, and own an original USP Match, Expert, and P7M8.
At Shot Show 2010 or 2011, I got thrown out of the HK civilian booth, for Heckling.
Apparently, they failed to appreciate my observation on the 'new' USC being essentially the same as the old USC that never moved from our store shelves, only black, particularly on media day.
The Germans have no sense of irony.

And you're still a fan?

You got that going for ya.