WTF ? A simple rant.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I personally prefer the American tipping culture, especially given so many in our society seem to expect to get rewarded for minimal effort. If we had a society where people were expected to give their best effort no matter what then we wouldn't need tipping.

I've seen accounts of restaurants that got rid of tipping. Some seem to have made it work, others lost their best servers who knew they could and would make more at another establishment. I don't know of any controlled statistical study in the US -- and you KNOW the proponents of abolishing tipping would push one out if it really worked here.

As far as DoorDash, GrubHub, and UberEats go, I refuse to use them because they all screw the restaurants. I even refused when I had a $60/month credit for DoorDash from my credit card company. I treat periods when I'm too sick or the weather sucks too much to go out like I would a snowbound emergency -- I dip into the stash of pasta, rice, and canned goods. You know, that same stash that some of us keep in case of emergency? Some people here are starting to sound like the folks who complain they're starving because we had a 3-day blizzard and they're out of food, toilet paper, etc.

[arbol]

I'm loving the Domino's pizza ads that are highlighting just how bad Door Dash, Grub Hub, Uber Eats, etc. are for local restaurants.

If the restaurant doesn't have their own delivery service, don't buy delivery from them. Look for restaurants that DO have their own delivery service.

Just the same way these companies (Uber, looking at you) rape existing businesses like Cab Companies, is not cool.

[hollohas]

Just the same way these companies (Uber, looking at you) rape existing businesses like Cab Companies, is not cool.

I hate 3rd party food delivery, but love Uber and Lyft. Every damn cab I ever called took FOREVER to come get me. Not ride services, because you can see where the car is that's picking you up. And I've sat in far too many cabs that take their sweet ass time, watching the fair increase faster than I could follow or the driver taking the family circus route to get somewhere so they could jack the price.

Uber and Lyft tell you up front what you'll pay and there is no incentive for drivers to jack you around like cabs do.

Not to mention, cabs can be downright gross inside. Steve's Camry is always clean and comfortable.

Cabs have been raping people for decades and didn't adapt to the 21st century. They won't be missed.

[Martinjmpr]

I was in the restaurant business for 14 years. Started as dishwasher and went as far as part owner.

The margins are very slim. If an owner is required to pay service staff minimum wage or more, the menu prices you pay will increase around 20% to cover the addition payroll costs.

Given that the "standard" these days seems to be 20% tip, that would be about right, wouldn't it? From my viewpoint as the customer, I'm going to pay the same whether it's $40 + $8 tip = $48 or $48 + $0 tip = $48.

It benefits me because I know exactly how much my meal is going to cost and it benefits the server because he doesn't have to wonder if I'm going to be generous and give him a nice tip, give him a "normal" 20% tip, or stiff him.

Really, what is the difference between getting a meal in a restaurant and getting literally any other good or service? I don't tip the Wal-Mart cashier when I check out. I don't tip the guy at Home Depot who helps me load lumber into my truck. I don't tip the nurse at the doctor's office who takes my blood pressure. I don't tip the guy who rotates my tires. I sure as hell don't tip the LGS owner when I buy a Glock or a box of ammo. Why should food service be any different?

As I said above, there are countries that are similar to ours in terms of culture but they don't do tipping and find the concept to be bizarre. So it's not like there's something inherently different about food service that justifies the tipping custom. We just do it because that's the way it's been.

[ray1970]

Tipping is necessary if you want any hope of getting decent service.

With tips providing a chunk of their income, a server is way more likely to try and provide you with good service so that they are rewarded financially for their hard work.

Take tips out of the equation and they know they?re getting their money whether they provide excellent service or totally ignore you or provide shitty service. There?s no incentive for them to provide you with decent service and likely you aren?t going to get decent service.

[Great-Kazoo]

Tipping is necessary if you want any hope of getting decent service.

With tips providing a chunk of their income, a server is way more likely to try and provide you with good service so that they are rewarded financially for their hard work.

Take tips out of the equation and they know they?re getting their money whether they provide excellent service or totally ignore you or provide shitty service. There?s no incentive for them to provide you with decent service and likely you aren?t going to get decent service.

We ask the server. Do you keep tips, or have to share them with everyone else? Usually it's keep, in cash, share on card. Ok thanks, we like paying cash.

[Martinjmpr]

Tipping is necessary if you want any hope of getting decent service.

With tips providing a chunk of their income, a server is way more likely to try and provide you with good service so that they are rewarded financially for their hard work.

Take tips out of the equation and they know they?re getting their money whether they provide excellent service or totally ignore you or provide shitty service. There?s no incentive for them to provide you with decent service and likely you aren?t going to get decent service.

So the only place you ever get "decent service" is at a restaurant that has tipping?

I've gotten great service at: Fast food restaurants, Gun shops, Hardware stores, auto parts stores, grocery stores, department stores, discount stores, etc, with no tipping. I've also gotten poor service at restaurants that DID have tipping.

I've also dined in other countries where they don't have a tipping culture - notably Germany - and I was always served in just as professional and courteous a manner as I ever was in the US. So I don't see where "no tipping = poor service" actually applies in the real world. You can get crappy service anywhere. And you can get good service anywhere.

The problem with using tipping as an incentive for service is that it only works in the abstract, in the long run. When that server first comes to take your order, he/she doesn't know if you'll be a good tipper or a poor tipper. By the time you apply the "remedy" of a poor tip, the damage has already been done. What's the server supposed to do, chase you down and say "I promise I'll do a better job next time?"

For that matter, using tipping to incentivize good behavior or punish bad behavior is a pretty cumbersome mechanism for communicating to the staff about what you liked and disliked.

Let's say you leave a small tip or no tip. Is it because you were unsatisfied with the service? Or maybe the service was good but the food was bad? Or maybe you were just angry at the world that day? Or you were down to your last dollar and didn't leave enough left over for the tip? The server has no way of knowing WHY you left the poor tip, they just have to guess.

Conversely, let's say you leave a $50 or $100 tip on a $40 check. Is it because you had exceptional service? Or because you just hit the lottery or got your bonus and wanted to share the wealth? Or because you used to be a waiter yourself and you appreciate overworked restaurant staff and you know they don't make much? Or because you thought the waitress was hot and you want to ask her out? They have no way of knowing WHY you gave the tip you did so, again, how does that cause them to modify their behavior?

Seems to me if you are getting poor service in a restaurant, you let somebody know. "Hey, I asked for a refill on my coffee 15 minutes ago." "This steak is cold and it's not cooked the way I wanted it done." "I told the waitress I wanted to order dessert but she just brought me my check and walked away." Isn't it a lot more mature to tell somebody why you aren't happy rather than just stiff them on the tip and leave them guessing as to why?

For that matter, is it even going to make them look at themselves and say "gosh, I guess I should have done a better job keeping that customer happy?" I'd think they more likely to say "wow, that guy was an a$$hole, I guess he was having a bad day and that's why he stiffed me on the tip. Screw that guy."

[MrPrena]

So the only place you ever get "decent service" is at a restaurant that has tipping?

I've gotten great service at: Fast food restaurants, Gun shops, Hardware stores, auto parts stores, grocery stores, department stores, discount stores, etc, with no tipping. I've also gotten poor service at restaurants that DID have tipping.

I've also dined in other countries where they don't have a tipping culture - notably Germany - and I was always served in just as professional and courteous a manner as I ever was in the US. So I don't see where "no tipping = poor service" actually applies in the real world. You can get crappy service anywhere. And you can get good service anywhere.

The problem with using tipping as an incentive for service is that it only works in the abstract, in the long run. When that server first comes to take your order, he/she doesn't know if you'll be a good tipper or a poor tipper. By the time you apply the "remedy" of a poor tip, the damage has already been done. What's the server supposed to do, chase you down and say "I promise I'll do a better job next time?"

For that matter, using tipping to incentivize good behavior or punish bad behavior is a pretty cumbersome mechanism for communicating to the staff about what you liked and disliked.

Let's say you leave a small tip or no tip. Is it because you were unsatisfied with the service? Or maybe the service was good but the food was bad? Or maybe you were just angry at the world that day? Or you were down to your last dollar and didn't leave enough left over for the tip? The server has no way of knowing WHY you left the poor tip, they just have to guess.

Conversely, let's say you leave a $50 or $100 tip on a $40 check. Is it because you had exceptional service? Or because you just hit the lottery or got your bonus and wanted to share the wealth? Or because you used to be a waiter yourself and you appreciate overworked restaurant staff and you know they don't make much? Or because you thought the waitress was hot and you want to ask her out? They have no way of knowing WHY you gave the tip you did so, again, how does that cause them to modify their behavior?

Seems to me if you are getting poor service in a restaurant, you let somebody know. "Hey, I asked for a refill on my coffee 15 minutes ago." "This steak is cold and it's not cooked the way I wanted it done." "I told the waitress I wanted to order dessert but she just brought me my check and walked away." Isn't it a lot more mature to tell somebody why you aren't happy rather than just stiff them on the tip and leave them guessing as to why?

For that matter, is it even going to make them look at themselves and say "gosh, I guess I should have done a better job keeping that customer happy?" I'd think they more likely to say "wow, that guy was an a$$hole, I guess he was having a bad day and that's why he stiffed me on the tip. Screw that guy."

I went to eat Pho for lunch today, and I did a nearly 15%.
I should have went to noodle and company. They do not do tipping, and they have a great service.



Old article, but they dont do tips.

Noodles & Co. CEO Explains Why They Have A No-Tipping Policy

Katie Little , CNBC Mar 19, 2014, 6:24 AM

No need for your internal Emily Post to debate about the merits of 15 percent or 18 percent here. At Noodles & Co., the recommended tip is nothing.

"Respect doesn't cost you anything," said Noodles CEO and Chairman Kevin Reddy in an interview. "Being nice doesn't cost you anything, and we don't really feel that folks should have to pay something additional for us to appreciate that they're choosing us over another restaurant."

The no-tipping policy also plays into an emphasis on relative value at Noodles, which has about 380 locations in 29 states and Washington, D.C., that serve a variety of noodle and pasta dishes, he added. The average meal sets diners back about $8?a price tag that's more expensive than fast food giants, like McDonald'sor Wendy's, but less so than casual dining chains, like Darden Restaurants' Olive Garden or DineEquity's Applebee's.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nood...-policy-2014-3

[Martinjmpr]

I probably should add that I'm certainly not going to stop tipping and that I always tip, whether service is good or bad, in those businesses where tipping is customary (as I said above, if service is bad, I will let someone know, but really that almost never happens these days.)

As of now, tipping is the norm at many businesses and I'm certainly not going to punish the worker who's job is dependent on tips just because I think there may be a better way to achieve the same objective. I always tip when I get my hair cut, for example, and if I'm ordering at a bar or restaurant where tipping is customary, of course I'll tip there, too. Most of the rest of "tipping culture" is irrelevant to me since I really don't use services where tipping is the custom (taxi/Uber, hotel porters, food delivery services, newspaper delivery, housekeeper, lawn service, etc.)

I'm just saying that (1) Tipping may be "customary" in America but there are plenty of places where it's not and things work just fine in those places and (2) I think there are better ways of incentivizing good behavior and punishing bad behavior than by tipping or failing to tip.

Tipping is a relic of a stratified society with "uppers" and "lowers" and IMO has no place in a modern civilized commercial context where people exchange goods and services for money in an equal status.

[DDT951]

Tipping also makes the food look cheaper.

Martin mentioned Germany. They tell you right on the menu there is 19% MWST (essentially sales tax) and 18% service fee built into the prices you see on the menu. But keep in mind, there are no free refills (generally) in Germany. Most restaurants make the money there on drinks (well USA too).

I bet wait staff just love hearing "a glass of water"...