WTK: Open carry and ID in CO

[hip55]

Investigating a crime is different than investigating a report of "a citizen that is open carrying".

And open carry is not a crime in any way (unless there is a specific statute that prohibits it).

This is a slippery slope.

LEOs get put in very difficult positions all of the time, from routine traffic stops to ungodly scenes of mayhem. I respect what they do very much.

But they have their limitations just like every other public servant (or private employee for that matter) and have to operate within the law.

I much prefer dealing with "Peace Officers" than "LEOs" any day of the week.

[Byte Stryke]

Unfortunately, if someone calls on you, it is the cops responsibility to contact you and determine no crime is being or will be, committed.

Can you imagine if the cops didn't respond or do anything after being notified of it and someone is killed, due to that person who was reported carrying?

You are putting the cops in a no-win situation and that opens the door to lawsuits.

I am not trying to start anything, The following is an actual question I have long held.

So if John Citizen calls the police on me and leaves an "anonymous tip", Johnny Law comes and "detains me" for 3 days pending investigation, what happened to my right to face my accuser?
So I spend 3 days in lockup, thus lose my job, My Home, Wife leaves and takes the kids because someone accused me of some horrible crime, The evening News paints me out to be some deviant monster all because of this "report of a man (doing whatever)?"

I Honestly believe that the "Suspicion' by law should be backed with some evidence.

Call comes in to 911 "Man with Gun threatening homeowner"
Police show up and there's a man at the address with a firearm Drawn
By All means, "detain" him

report of a man waving a gun in a Blue SUV in Arvada.
You see a woman alone in a Blue SUV in Northglenn 2 minutes later (evening traffic)
get a warrant.

Seriously my Elderly Aunt had her vehicle stripped down on the side of the road and was left there to reassemble it herself.
Unable to do so she had to walk home, suffered frostbite and had all of her shit stolen.
Northglen PD Told her that if she pursued it there would be "repercussions."

[hip55]

She allowed them to search her car without a search warrant.

[Byte Stryke]

She allowed them to search her car without a search warrant.

Forced because they claimed "reasonable suspicion"

I was actually driving tow-truck at the time and picked the hull up for her.

[hip55]

if you tell them that you do not concede to a search then they will have to impound the vehicle and get a warrant.

This is what the 4th amendment is all about.

[Byte Stryke]

You may have that belief; it doesn't make it law anymore than my belief. Prior to March 18, 2003, it was a legal and lawful municipal ordinance and he violated it.

I am pretty sure that the Constitution of the United States was written before that.


Now if the State of Colorado declined to observe the 2nd and then 4th Amendments then made their own laws in contradiction to it claiming that they were legal, then they have in fact violated the law.

Just because you make a law and it hasn't been challenged yet, doesn't give it validity if it is later found to be unconstitutional. Many Many cases are overturned on this argument.

Once again, we agree to disagree I guess.

[Byte Stryke]

if you tell them that you do not concede to a search then they will have to impound the vehicle and get a warrant.

This is what the 4th amendment is all about.

in Theory, you are correct.

"we have probable cause because we have a report..."

[Seamonkey]

Lots of good info, thanks.

I didn't realize that it's actual law that you must show ID to LOE, good to know.
As for the other stuff, I'm guessing it comes down to "reasonable suspicion" which is flawed, a huge gray area and open to interpretation by the actual officer.

If you are in open carry near your vehicle fueling up and it's packed full of camping gear that's one situation as opposed to waving the gun around and yelling/screaming at people with a brown bag in the other hand as opposed to calls of "shots fired" and your seen running away from the area. Where you involved in the shooting or just running for cover?

From the LOE's point of view they get a call about an armed person. They have no clue WTF is going on, the situation, the mental state of the person yadi yadi yadiya

Thanks for the loads of info with references "OneGuy67"

[hip55]

There is no theory involved at all, that's the law.

If you get pulled over and asked to get out of your car, you comply.

As you step out you put your keys in your pocket, lock the doors and close the door.

This (being a habit that you are used to doing) keeps your personal property secure from everyone, especially from warrantless searches.

[hip55]

Lots of good info, thanks.

I didn't realize that it's actual law that you must show ID to LOE, good to know.

Only if you have been informed by the LEO that you are under suspicion of committing a crime.

If you have done nothing illegal you don't have to show an ID or say a word.

That's the kind of fishing that is done all the time.