Jose Guerena SWAT Raid Video From Helmet Cam

[KevDen2005]

Did you notice that one officer that was far from the door runs up just to get a few shots off? Basically joining the other 5 or 6 officers who stopped in the funnel, possibly shooting over the heads of his teammates, doubtful if he was sure of what was downrange.


.

You can clearly see in the video that he could identify what his gun was pointed at.

And I'm sure if your friends were getting shot at you wouldn't run up and help them out, just let them take all the fire.

I know I know, before it's even going to be said, why would these cops go after that innocent guy, they are really horrible people...

give me a break already.

[PSS]

And I'm sure if your friends were getting shot at you wouldn't run up and help them out, just let them take all the fire.

His friends weren't getting shot at is the sad part.

[KevDen2005]

[quote=PSS;361007]

And I'm sure if your friends were getting shot at you wouldn't run up and help them out, just let them take all the fire.
quote]


His friends weren't getting shot at is the sad part.

Well when gun fights start it's really hard to tell where they are coming from and instantly you might think that your friends are getting shot at.

If this officer heard "gun" and his friends start shooting then he better get his butt up there and help out instead of hiding behind cover while his friends might be in the middle of the fight. These guys make instant decisions everyone in the world has the rest of their lives to criticize them.

[275RLTW]

What evidence do you have that they anounced they were police?? Not disputing you just asking.... cause you can't hear it in the video

Turn up the volume and you can hear the officers at the door. They start announcing at :30.

[tmckay2]

Video was shot from inside a closed car, so the voices are very muffled. You can hear the siren loudly as presumably it's from the car the video was shot in. Probably a Suburban. And it appears they used a flashbang, which means anything after the bang on wouldn't have been heard.

IMHO cameras are small, lightweight, and cheap enough now that it should be required on every (issued) helmet and gun. All that video goes to court as evidence. The idea that storming in the best way to serve a warrant is crazytown.

H.

i agree. might as well cover your ass

[Pancho Villa]

From the standpoint of the officers: put in a tense, high-stress/pressure situation where their lives may very well be in danger, someone made an understandable mistake that resulted in the death of what looks like an innocent man.

From the standpoint of the legal community at large: Whether you shout "POLICE!" or not as you bang down my door, I have very large incentives to grab a rifle and meet you there. I'm sorry, this isn't to say that I am itching to shoot at DA MAN, its saying that I don't trust an ominous voice busting down my door to be absolutely truthful as to his identity.

Put yourself in that sit: you hear sirens going off, you hear someone busting down your door. Is it SWAT, serving a warrant because you have "many guns"? Or is some guy the cops are chasing looking for a hostage?

You can see how a wrong guess on your part in either direction can easily lead to serious injury or death of you or a loved one.

I think from a larger standpoint, its another symptom of no-win situations that the legal machinery puts both citizens AND SWAT teams in. You can't go in that way not ready to unload on the first thing that looks hostiles; you can't have what appears to be a home invasion and not go for your own weapons. The fact that this is legal in cases where there isn't some compelling reason (bodily harm to an innocent, known armed & very dangerous guy CONFIRMED BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT on the other side of the door, etc) is a black mark on the legal system, not on any particular SWAT team member.

I'd be like if that Bin Laden compound raid went like this:

"We actually aren't sure if this is the compound with Bin Laden in it or if its a national guard training center with everyone dressed up like OPFOR and using AKs. But we're sending you in and expecting that everything is going to work out just fine."

Obviously, it would be asinine and the commander who authorized such a mission would be terminated. But here at home that's about the standard for most SWAT operations.

[275RLTW]

No flashbang used. Officer at the rear doesn't fire. He presents handgun but does not fire. Other 3 officers in doorway are held there and seem to be engaging (cannot confirm from video). The officers saw this: they turned on lights & sirens, knocked, announced, and rammed the door. Upon entry, they are greeted by a combat veteran with a rifle who targeted them at the fatal funnel. Given that info, I don't blame them. I'm not saying that there weren't mistakes, however Jose Guerena had 44 seconds from sirens to shots (as someone pointed out) to PUT HIS GUN DOWN! If he didn't do it in 44 sec, why would the cops have reason to believe he would do it after 1 min, 5 min, or 5 hours? Given that the neighborhood is known for narcotics trafficing and the growing presence of US and Mexican gang members, both with military experience, I see no fault in their decision. Their tactics were a bit sloppy, but decision givens the situitation were justified.

[Lex_Luthor]

And who called the raid? Were they sure of their "intelligence" gathered that designated his home to be one of the houses involved in this "major drug investigation"?

[Pancho Villa]

No flashbang used. Officer at the rear doesn't fire. He presents handgun but does not fire. Other 3 officers in doorway are held there and seem to be engaging (cannot confirm from video). The officers saw this: they turned on lights & sirens, knocked, announced, and rammed the door. Upon entry, they are greeted by a combat veteran with a rifle who targeted them at the fatal funnel. Given that info, I don't blame them. I'm not saying that there weren't mistakes, however Jose Guerena had 44 seconds from sirens to shots (as someone pointed out) to PUT HIS GUN DOWN! If he didn't do it in 44 sec, why would the cops have reason to believe he would do it after 1 min, 5 min, or 5 hours? Given that the neighborhood is known for narcotics trafficing and the growing presence of US and Mexican gang members, both with military experience, I see no fault in their decision. Their tactics were a bit sloppy, but decision givens the situitation were justified.

I would be interested in knowing the facts of the case that precluded:

1. Arresting him at work and then serving a search warrant on his home, either 4 hours before or 12 hours after the raid was actually done (if he is such a danger)
2. Picking him up in his driveway before he goes to work, then serving whatever search warrant they had (again, if he is some dangerous maniac)

or even

3. Knocking on his door politely, announcing that its the police and serving the warrant with several uniformed officers with backup nearby if they feel like there is danger.

All 3 of those options result is 0 dead people, 0 bad blood for the police and a peaceful search of this guy's premises.

Edit: Take a stopwatch (or your phone) out and start it. Think of waking up from a deep sleep after a hard day of work. Sirens. What's going on? no idea. Someone's banging on your door. Is it the cops? Is it some guy the cops are chasing looking for a place to hole up with ready-made hostages? You don't know. Do you hear them shout police? Do you trust that?

The dead guy didn't make any mistakes, either.

[275RLTW]

I would be interested in knowing the facts of the case that precluded:

1. Arresting him at work and then serving a search warrant on his home, either 4 hours before or 12 hours after the raid was actually done (if he is such a danger)
2. Picking him up in his driveway before he goes to work, then serving whatever search warrant they had (again, if he is some dangerous maniac)

or even

3. Knocking on his door politely, announcing that its the police and serving the warrant with several uniformed officers with backup nearby if they feel like there is danger.

All 3 of those options result is 0 dead people, 0 bad blood for the police and a peaceful search of this guy's premises.

Edit: Take a stopwatch (or your phone) out and start it. Think of waking up from a deep sleep after a hard day of work. Sirens. What's going on? no idea. Someone's banging on your door. Is it the cops? Is it some guy the cops are chasing looking for a place to hole up with ready-made hostages? You don't know. Do you hear them shout police? Do you trust that?

The dead guy didn't make any mistakes, either.

All good points Pancho....I don't think any of the guys in that video had any say in those decisions. Most of those are based upon ther risk assessment matrix. As I said before, bad situitation for everyone involved....