When do we stop f**king around, and declare thsis to be a war?

[Irving]

No one said anything about "taxing the shit" out of drugs. Only losers suggest that.

I just read Spyder's post. You guys are clinging to a fairy tale fantasy. The people who are prone to doing drugs, already do them. No law in the world will stop them. The people who already don't do drugs, won't start doing them just because the laws change. Everyone knows someone who doesn't drink at all, 10x more people who do drink, but don't abuse, and roughly the same amount of people whom are alcoholics as those who don't drink at all. How do the laws play into those numbers?

The fact is, you CANNOT legislate behavior.

I'm not even going to bother with comparing a government body trying to enforce laws to raising a child. This is silliness. It'd be nice if passing a law could effect people's behavior, but it is a pipe dream.

I could tear apart the rest of the post as well (no offense to you Spyder, of course), but I frankly don't see the point. We are standing across a gap that we just can't bridge and until you are willing to accept reality, argument is futile. No one is saying that those of us who feel the way we do, like that point, it's just that we've come to accept the reality that we live in.

[Fentonite]

All the arguments supporting drug prohibition were used, in some fashion, regarding alcohol prohibition. Hell, some of them are even used to support the prohibition of firearms. History has shown that prohibition of anything does not work, and usually benefits the bad guys. If firearms are banned, would there be no more gun ownership? Of course not, but there would no longer be firearms safety classes, safe ranges, competitions, forums like this, etc. Folks would still own guns, but would use them in a more dangerous fashion, and become a criminal by owning them.

Spyder's signature line says it well: "If you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot." People will always figure out how to get what they want. Outlawing something will not make it unobtainable, it will only ensure that its possession requires criminal activity, which will likely cause harm at some level, in addition to the harm caused by the intrinsic danger of the banned item (gun, drug, booze, prostitute...).

(Hey Spyder - PM me your address, and I'll send you a copy of the book I mentioned earlier. It's a good read, even if you don't think you'll agree with it)

[flan7211]

Guys this is getting ridiculous. First off every law we have legislates behavior!!! You can't speed, you can't run a red light, you pay taxes for the general welfare, you shouldn't murder, etc. When I was in college smoking copious amounts of pot I was all for legalization of Marijuana. Out here in the real world though it is just ridiculous. You can't say to me that nice middle class neighborhoods will support this. It sounds fine to be against a prohibition on drugs, but we can't think libertarian idealism is equally just and rampant in the general populous as my friends on this forum. Yes reform is necessary but legalization is absurd.

[Irving]

The only reason people pay taxes is because it leaves your pay check before it gets to you.