Holder vote

[Rucker61]

Even Holder Admits ( after trying to use semantics.. rather FAIL style ) That Fast and Furious made NO attempt to track the weapons and was COMPLETELY different then Operation Wide Receiver. That F&F was started under HIS watch, and that the Mexicans were NOT informed.

Stupid, but not illegal. Really stupid, considering how many weapons already flow into Mexico from other sources. Covering up a crime is illegal, of course, and if it's show that they did, they should suffer the consequences. I don't know that covering up stupidity is illegal. It will most likely affect the re-election, however.

[clublights]

Stupid, but not illegal. Really stupid, considering how many weapons already flow into Mexico from other sources. Covering up a crime is illegal, of course, and if it's show that they did, they should suffer the consequences. I don't know that covering up stupidity is illegal. It will most likely affect the re-election, however.

Not Illegal?? I guess if you ignore ITAR.


EDIT:

You try running guns to mexico .. see how well that works out for you.

[Rucker61]

Not Illegal?? I guess if you ignore ITAR.

I'm looking at that right now, and I guess this is where the lawyers will make a mint. The ATF in OWR or OFF didn't directly export the guns to Mexico or domestic criminals. It's fairly obvious that failing to act to prevent a crime in a government operation isn't necessarily a crime, or we'd have to shut down all stings operations by all LEOs. IANAL, but if we consider bureaucracies in the Executive branch to be acting with the authority and knowledge of the President, then Section 128.1 could be viewed as making the actions of the ATF to be outside the purview of the ITAR. Again, I am not a lawyer and this was just a cursory skimming of a couple of sections of the ITAR.

[clublights]

I'm looking at that right now, and I guess this is where the lawyers will make a mint. The ATF in OWR or OFF didn't directly export the guns to Mexico or domestic criminals. It's fairly obvious that failing to act to prevent a crime in a government operation isn't necessarily a crime, or we'd have to shut down all stings operations by all LEOs. IANAL, but if we consider bureaucracies in the Executive branch to be acting with the authority and knowledge of the President, then Section 128.1 could be viewed as making the actions of the ATF to be outside the purview of the ITAR. Again, I am not a lawyer and this was just a cursory skimming of a couple of sections of the ITAR.

Maybe ITAR is not QUITE right ...

Maybe more AECA

but put is this way...

If we could even half prove Iran gave 2000 guns to terrorists ( are the cartels really THAT different from the taliban/ AQ? ) and they used those guns to kill 300+ Americans on american soil, we would just shrug it off?

I think most folks ( esp the ones around here) would call it an Act of War. I can't believe the Mexican Government has stood by and not said a word.

And THAT is how you KNOW Obama was involved.

[Rucker61]

Maybe ITAR is not QUITE right ...

Maybe more AECA

but put is this way...

If we could even half prove Iran gave 2000 guns to terrorists ( are the cartels really THAT different from the taliban/ AQ? ) and they used those guns to kill 300+ Americans on american soil, we would just shrug it off?

I think most folks ( esp the ones around here) would call it an Act of War. I can't believe the Mexican Government has stood by and not said a word.

And THAT is how you KNOW Obama was involved.

If the US government gave 2000 guns to Mexican terrorists, then it is an Act of War. But they didn't. I will grant that the ATF coerced the FFLs to sell the weapons to US citizens, but neither of those acts are crimes, and the FFLs seemed willing enough on their own to sell weapons to straw purchasers. They weren't interdicted, but proving failure to act to be a crime will be difficult. I believe I've read that the SCOTUS has ruled the LEOs in this country aren't required to get involved in preventing an active crime.

What is Obama's involvement here? Preventing the Mexican government from declaring war on the US? I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing. Can you enlighten me?