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  1. #31
    Paper Hunter ringhilt's Avatar
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    Kraken,

    compromise with the anti's is futile. You can't bargain with someone who thinks what they own is theirs and what you own is negotiable. We the gun owners have been compromising for 100 years. in 1934 we lost machine guns (assault weapons) and suppressors (a.k.a. silencers) and artillery pieces and SBR's. Yes, prior to 1934 you could buy a cannon. but who would. they are outrageously expensive. in 1968 we lost direct mail order from the factory, instituted the 4473 form and forced everyone to go to a dealer. And since then they have instituted background checks, wait periods, licensing requirements (not all states), etc.
    We have given, and given and given. Yet each tragedy the anti's call for more laws and more control. They scream about the mythical loophole. Well, no one explains the loop holes have been closed many times over. The anti's use it as a sound bite to scare people. it's an old Rules for Radicals strategy. Keep the people in a constant state of fear any they will beg you to enslave them. The anti's say they want reasonable, but never define reasonable. And what is reasonable to you is not reasonable to me. Then when you try to have a debate, the instance to deviate from their planned agenda, they scream you are obstructing forward progress, hate children and want to murder everyone then whine some more and shut down the debate. Basically when like little children, grab their ball and go home until you "compromise" some more in their favor while you get ass raped with a cactus.
    Anyway, the bottom line is we have compromised and they still want more. At some point we need to put our feet down and say enough. where do we draw a hard line and say NO????????

    I think we need to look at other factors besides guns. Each shooter seems to violate half dozen laws or more yet we need more laws. WTF? And something interesting that is not discussed is many of these nut bags have a history of mental illness and are taking SSRI anti depressant drugs. A known side effect is violent psychotic breakdowns. especially if you stop taking them cold turkey. Maybe we need to look at the mulit-billion pharmaceutical companies instead of guns???????

    No more compromise until both sides can sit at the table and drill down to the actual root cause of the problem. It's not just guns. It's not just drugs. It is probably several factors and until we drill down to the root cause (or causes) we cannot make a rational decision on what laws we need.
    As long as the anti's act like whiny little children throwing a temper tantrum, I say compromise is over.

  2. #32
    Machine Gunner KestrelBike's Avatar
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    I like that you're coming up with ideas and thinking. I've been doing the same thing today (but have come up with much, much less).

    Anyways, this idea constantly came up on the CA forums (cal-guns.net!) and some of the arguments against were that if you required such a class, it would necessarily cost money, and at that point, you're discriminating based on $$$. If it was "free", it was an additional tax for everyone to pay. Then there was the slippery slope of *how much* training was required, and lawmakers could slip in stuff like A) oh, a 2-4hr class isn't going to cut it: only people trained at a military level! and at that point, you've got class-based rights.

    As for the "militia" aspect, just going by what the media makes out of Militias, they are overwhelming and automatically designated as psuedo white-supremacist terrorist organizations. Honestly, what Militia in the United States is even approved of by our government? It's a complete double-standard given by the a-holes who tried to argue that the 2nd Amendment wasn't about individual rights, it was only about revolutionary-era "militia" organizations.

  3. #33
    Machine Gunner Kraven251's Avatar
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    I did some digging and based largely on posts from this forum and other information I found in a few places I have a slightly different idea now...

    Legislators have been trying to ban firearms for who knows how long...and it has gotten us nowhere. So that coupled with the realization that TFOGGER had a truly valid point, and a conversation I had with an Israeli friend of mine, I came up with my second idea of the day on the subject.

    Educate, train, and arm everyone. Hell if a reporter from CNN can enjoy shooting for the first time, why not embrace the idea. I'm not even being funny, I am absolutely serious.

    Stop Regulating and Start Educating.

  4. #34
    Grand Master Know It All DOC's Avatar
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    Why not. We've tried everything else. Now we could try something that makes sense.
    Who are you to want to escape a thugs bullet? That is only a personal prejudice, ( Atlas Shrugged)
    "Those that don't watch the old media are uninformed, those that do watch the old media are misinformed." - Mark Twain

  5. #35
    Fleeing Idaho to get IKEA Bailey Guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraven251 View Post
    I did some digging and based largely on posts from this forum and other information I found in a few places I have a slightly different idea now...

    Legislators have been trying to ban firearms for who knows how long...and it has gotten us nowhere. So that coupled with the realization that TFOGGER had a truly valid point, and a conversation I had with an Israeli friend of mine, I came up with my second idea of the day on the subject.

    Educate, train, and arm everyone. Hell if a reporter from CNN can enjoy shooting for the first time, why not embrace the idea. I'm not even being funny, I am absolutely serious.

    Stop Regulating and Start Educating.
    Not a bad idea...but it's nothing new. Some of us (collectively as gun owners) have been doing this for years...maybe even decades.
    Stella - my best girl ever.
    11/04/1994 - 12/23/2010



    Don't wanna get shot by the police?
    "Stop Resisting Arrest!"


  6. #36
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    You are assuming the anti-gun crowd is being honest in their intent. Some are, most only think we can have a good country if no one owns guns save the rich and politicians.

    Remember, utopia is the opiate the liberals/progressive.

  7. #37
    The "Godfather" of COAR Great-Kazoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraven251 View Post
    I did some digging and based largely on posts from this forum and other information I found in a few places I have a slightly different idea now...

    Legislators have been trying to ban firearms for who knows how long...and it has gotten us nowhere. So that coupled with the realization that TFOGGER had a truly valid point, and a conversation I had with an Israeli friend of mine, I came up with my second idea of the day on the subject.

    Educate, train, and arm everyone. Hell if a reporter from CNN can enjoy shooting for the first time, why not embrace the idea. I'm not even being funny, I am absolutely serious.

    Stop Regulating and Start Educating.

    There is this education class called Eddie Eagle, a NRA firearm style awareness course for children. However thee have been no educational systems within the US that have embraced FREE Safety Classes for Children. NOT ONE. People would rather have ignorant children regarding guns, yet allow sex education, same sex awareness, condom distribution etc.

    Oooh, how about we just be like CA, have a 3-day waiting period on new firearm purchases

    Sorry but it's 10 days, not 3. Then you must show you have a CADOJ approved gun lock AND or storage area, prior to purchase.
    The Great Kazoo's Feedback

    "when you're happy you enjoy the melody but, when you're broken you understand the lyrics".

  8. #38
    Varmiteer
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    delete
    Last edited by HBARleatherneck; 12-19-2012 at 08:54.

  9. #39
    Americus
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    I agree that education is key to understanding someone's point of view. Fear and ignorance and the trampling of other's views and beliefs has always stemmed from a lack of education. I think the only thing we as gun-owners can continue to do is educate.

    Furthermore, we need to start educating parents on the desensitization that these 'shooter' games have on children. Kids see more violence today on TV and video games than ever before, and so now you have young adults that think there's some sort of reset button after you die. I'm sure all of you fellow combat veterans out there will agree with me when I say that there is a very distinct feel, smell, and sense of finality when it comes to death in a combat environment. You don't come back from that shit.

    I for one will continue to educate anyone who will listen on the importance of gun safety and ownership. And I will never allow anyone, don't care who they are, convince me otherwise.

  10. #40
    MODFATHER cstone's Avatar
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    If guns are so bad, let all of the government owned guns be destroyed first; then maybe we can discuss the disposition and restitution I require for the confiscation of my personal property.

    People who don't own guns are willing to give up a right they don't use. Why would they care about your rights?

    Regardless of the subject, you cannot teach someone something they are not willing to learn. The facts on weapon ownership not having any relationship to gun related crimes doesn't seem to impact anyone who wants to discuss gun rights.

    Be safe.
    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.

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