Check my work - assault weapons presentation

[Gman]

One thing I don't see presented is the effectiveness of the AR style rifle for home defense. A 9mm FMJ will damn near shoot through a home of modern drywall construction. The .223/5.56x45 will fragment and not keep penetrating through multiple interior walls. It's also a compact platform that's easier to navigate interior structures as well as being a platform for lighting and other accessories. My wife is also able to use the same rifle since it has the collapsible stock and is able to accommodate her.

[HoneyBadger]

One thing I don't see presented is the effectiveness of the AR style rifle for home defense. A 9mm FMJ will damn near shoot through a home of modern drywall construction. The .223/5.56x45 will fragment and not keep penetrating through multiple interior walls. It's also a compact platform that's easier to navigate interior structures as well as being a platform for lighting and other accessories. My wife is also able to use the same rifle since it has the collapsible stock and is able to accommodate her.

I was under the impression that penetration depends entirely on bullet type and energy. Your statement would be correct if you are not using FMJ .223. It would certainly fragment if you are using frangible ammo, but I would never recommend frangible ammo for a gun fight unless it's the only thing you've got. I will say though: my AR is my wife's favorite gun to shoot. She can handle it well, and can shoot accurately with it. If we had 1 AR and 1 pistol between the 2 of us for a defensive situation, I would gladly let her have the AR.

In any case, if I think the AR (or the AK) platform offers me the best capability to defend my home and my family, why would I not be allowed to use it? Cars are allowed to have additional airbags and bumpers for your protection, are they not? Argument concluded.

[wreave]

One thing I don't see presented is the effectiveness of the AR style rifle for home defense. A 9mm FMJ will damn near shoot through a home of modern drywall construction. The .223/5.56x45 will fragment and not keep penetrating through multiple interior walls. It's also a compact platform that's easier to navigate interior structures as well as being a platform for lighting and other accessories. My wife is also able to use the same rifle since it has the collapsible stock and is able to accommodate her.

This is objectively true.

However, if you shoot (at) an intruder, and face a civil suit either from the intruder or his family or some innocent bystander, do you want the opposing attorney to stand in front of the jury waving around your AR and saying you were obviously jonesing to shoot somebody? Heaven forbid you shoot two of them... now it's another AR-involved mass shooting!

I have thought about setting up an AR for HD, but have concerns about the aftermath. Not to digress - I actually already cut several slides already that seemed to be divergent from the point. I don't have an interest in trying to defend the uses of the AR platform (or other "assault weapons"), but to point out that it's a stupid plan to try to prevent crime/mass shootings by regulating them, or even defining them, according to cosmetic characteristics.

[Sharpienads]

I think the "assault weapon" quiz slides were the most effective. It really helps point out the idiocracy of labeling something an "assault weapon".

[Gman]

This is objectively true.

However, if you shoot (at) an intruder, and face a civil suit either from the intruder or his family or some innocent bystander, do you want the opposing attorney to stand in front of the jury waving around your AR and saying you were obviously jonesing to shoot somebody? Heaven forbid you shoot two of them... now it's another AR-involved mass shooting!

If they're intruders into my home? What the hell are you smoking? Are you just trolling these forums?

It appears that the data I previously had for fragmentation doesn't play out. Not sure what changed since the earlier tests. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

[wreave]

If they're intruders into my home? What the hell are you smoking? Are you just trolling these forums?

It appears that the data I previously had for fragmentation doesn't play out. Not sure what changed since the earlier tests. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

Gotta love the box of truth!

Dr. Roberts' data shows minimal penetration with 5.56, but that's into ballistic gel, not drywall.

No, I'm not trolling - if your round leaves your home and hits an innocent bystander, you can expect a civil suit, and you can expect your efforts to select an appropriate HD firearm and ammo to be a substantive point of discussion. One good reason to not have any punisher-branded accessories, or anything zombie-related. NFW am I going to take the stand and explain to a jury that my biohazard reticle and zombiemax ammo was just a joke.

[Gman]

The point I was making was in avoiding having casualties within the home as well as outside the home. There have been a number of older tests that showed XM193 fragmented heavily. Current tests aren't showing the same results. It makes me wonder what changed in the ammunition since the testing protocols haven't changed. I guess I'll just have to think about my options.

[HoneyBadger]

This is why all the bedrooms are upstairs in my new house. If someone wants to steal my TV downstairs, I'm not going to shoot them... I'll let the police and my insurance company sort it out. If someone insists on coming upstairs at night without my permission, they are going to meet a wall of lead and I'll let God sort it out. I would imagine it's pretty hard to advance up a narrow staircase against lots of lead, even if you are wearing a EOD suit and have a bulletproof riot shield. And this provides a good backstop for me too: the bullets that miss will go through the floor and into the unoccupied basement.


Sorry about dragging your thread off topic. I do think the quiz slides are the most effective.

[def90]

I agree 100% with the sentiment that we should always be using the term "rifle" rather than "assault weapon". I do not plan to ever use my FALs as an "offensive" tool thus the term "assault" is just plain wrong. The term "assault" should never be used, it is nothing but a rifle, just like any other rifle.

[wreave]

Thought: what about making two versions? One with just the quiz slides, one with more of the discussion points and my conclusions. I hate to give up the data on magazine size, as that seems like a very important one for the uninformed, but could probably get 80% of the value in 20% of the time.

If I did that - any other ideas on side-by-sides that could be added?