LAPD manhunt for one of their own - Christopher Dorner

[DHC]

I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).

You will not find me in disagreement generally. The only difference is that 6 months ago, it seems (stress *SEEMS*) that no-one would be labeling Dorner a "crazy asshole." Obviously if you BEGIN with the perspective that someone is batshit crazy, it taints the perspective and any conclusions drawn. If you start from the perspective that he was a relatively normal guy - just like you and your neighbor and the guy across the street - then the questions begin to take a new form and the conclusions are different.

This is entirely separate from dealing with his current actions, and those must be dealt with swiftly and decisively to stop the killing.

Just my $.02.

[DHC]

Watch it again. Mob mentality. No forethought of action.

Got it. Thanks.

[Melvin]

I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).

Again, I ask in all seriousness, how is it that you get to determine which action warrants being repelled. Both actions as you described involve people being stood on by an oppressive system. I would love to see what you would do placed in the same position of being stood on with no legitimate recourse left. Join a monastery?

Don't be so quick to judge a man till you have walked in his shoes.(and have the facts)

[CO Hugh]

Here is a link to an unredacted statement: has names and offensive language. http://boywithgrenade.org/2013/02/07...ers-manifesto/

[Kraven251]

Again, I ask in all seriousness, how is it that you get to determine which action warrants being repelled. Both actions as you described involve people being stood on by an oppressive system. I would love to see what you would do placed in the same position of being stood on with no legitimate recourse left. Join a monastery?

Don't be so quick to judge a man till you have walked in his shoes.(and have the facts)

I only ask this. Did the daughter of the captain or her fiance do anything to cause this guy harm or infringe on his rights in anyway?

I have objection to his actions on a few levels, but operating outside of those that have done you direct harm and targeting family is a valid psychological attack, but all the righteous indignation in the world doesn't justify taking lives of innocents.

[dwalker460]

I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).

People have been killed for a lot less, wars have started over less.

While I do not condone what he is doing, I completely understand it. Ever been bullied? Didya fight back only to have some smart ass limp wrist teacher tell you that you should have walked away? Well thats what this guy is doing, and in his view his life is over. He was fired, branded a liar, forced to leave the Navy, and pretty much had everything he felt he had earned in life, taken from him. Is this the truth? Who fucking knows, but HE BELIEVES it to be true. Is there a conspiracy in the LAPD? Well duh, why do you think a bunch of cops that beat the shit out of a guy on video are still employeed and promoted there? OBVIOUSLY there is a lot fucked up about the LAPD, and this guy is wearing his heart on his sleeve and all pissy about it.
Do I, personally, agree with his actions? No. DO I think he should be put down like a rabid dog? Not really, he broke the law and should have his day in court. What would I do in this situation? No idea, I am a different person with different values. Is this guy batshit crazy? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he is conducting a psyop action that gains him sympathy for being disturbed, a plausible defense should he be taken alive, and possibly puts his pursuers a little off thier game thinking they are not chasing a capable, rational, cunning individual but a malfunctioning disturbed one. Not taking this guy seriously and dismissing him as a lunatic is dangerous, IMHO.

[CO Hugh]

Jesus this dude is long winded and bat shit crazy.

Yup. My theory is that brevity is crucial. I try not to write more than a page. I have seen letters (statements) like this before and I always figure bat shit crazy Kaczynski.

[Aloha_Shooter]

One thing I find curious is the redaction of the supposed manifesto. Ostensibly, they redacted names to protect the potential victims. Protect them from what or who? Obviously Dorner already knows who he has a grudge against. The sheer length and variety of the spew in that manifesto increases the case for him being bat shit crazy so why the redactions? Maybe The Powers That Be were worried that some of his allegations might hold water if people dug into them? Wouldn't look good for the Dept even if HIS subsequent reactions are reprehensible.

I hate conspiracy theories but this is a really odd case.

[PugnacAutMortem]

One thing I find curious is the redaction of the supposed manifesto. Ostensibly, they redacted names to protect the potential victims. Protect them from what or who? Obviously Dorner already knows who he has a grudge against. The sheer length and variety of the spew in that manifesto increases the case for him being bat shit crazy so why the redactions? Maybe The Powers That Be were worried that some of his allegations might hold water if people dug into them? Wouldn't look good for the Dept even if HIS subsequent reactions are reprehensible.

I hate conspiracy theories but this is a really odd case.

That is an interesting point, I had not thought about that. However, what is the point in redacting when the internet already had the unedited version out for the masses to read? It's not terribly hard to find an unedited version...so if they wanted to redact it why only go halfway about it? Just another thought. But I agree, something is fishy about all this.

[Great-Kazoo]

Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.

I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.

The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.

Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?

THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.

Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.

He used BUZZ words. Just like a resume something to catch the eye. IF (key word) he puts in to wiritng any and everything that will appeal to some portion of this country he got his wish. That being people ask questions, regarding him being innocent and or framed / crazy.
Once he killed non-le's his game changed and no longer has any validity regarding being wronged by the dept.

Either way do we condone the innocent killing / execution of innocent people? I know i do not, you?