Martial Law

[losttrail]

Chicago? Go figure. A bastion of liberal blight with out-of-control crime. It's not the same as terrorism.

From Merriam-Webster

terrorism - noun - Systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

And the political objective of the gang killings in Chicago and other metro areas is to drive out the police and authority in order to take over and establish gang dominance or the area. To set up there own society of crime.

It may not be exactly the same as international terrorism as we see coming from Iran, Afghaistan, Pakistan, Chechnya, etc., but it is still terrorism.

[Ronin13]

Why was the request to "shelter in place" issued AFTER commuters were already at or on their way to work and school?

IIRC, the shelter in place was requested around 4am... I don't know that many people that head to work that early, and I certainly don't know anyone who goes to school that early, not even teachers. I understand the point you're trying to make, but at least try to be factual when citing examples.

The last 5 days I've been seeing quite a bit of tin foil being donned... I'm not too sure if people are getting more foolish or what, but you know what they say about a drowning man grasping for straws? He still drowns. I concur that a little paranoia and healthy distrust of the government is needed, but you have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise you end up looking like Ted Kazynski or Alex Jones, aka a crazy person. While entertaining, a lot of the folks on Doomsday Preppers are a little bit over that line and venturing into loony territory. I hope they don't do an episode with anyone from on here.

ETA:

And cops, despite their training and equipment, are civilians. They may dress like the military and have some of the same gear and tactics, but they're still subject to civil control.

THIS! If you were to look at cops (yes, even a SWAT team) and compare them to infantry soldiers, there are so many more differences that it's not even worth counting the similarities.

What I did see was that once the 'lockdown' was lifted, a private citizen, exercising his right to kill himself with cigarettes, located the terrorist. So what did the lockdown and door-to-door searches accomplish?

It sent a lesson to the citizens that the 4th and 14th Amendments are easily suspended based upon a supposed threat. No, I am not saying that the threat was fictional. It was real and I agree that it makes sense to reduce the number of innocents from the equation.

I just don't see all that happened as 100% benign.

I'm just curious, if you were in charge of the situation and you had an armed and dangerous terrorist on the loose in a very loosely defined area (let's say 20 square blocks or so), what would you do to try and find him and mitigate the risk to the public?

[spqrzilla]

I'm just curious, if you were in charge of the situation and you had an armed and dangerous terrorist on the loose in a very loosely defined area (let's say 20 square blocks or so), what would you do to try and find him and mitigate the risk to the public?

I cordon off the area that was so defined. I don't order an entire metro area of millions of people to hide under their desks for a day, shut down all businesses (except Dunkin' Donuts - because its too dangerous for everyone but $7 an hour donut fryers ) and shut down all transit for the entire area.

[losttrail]

IIRC, the shelter in place was requested around 4am... I don't know that many people that head to work that early, and I certainly don't know anyone who goes to school that early, not even teachers. I understand the point you're trying to make, but at least try to be factual when citing examples.

I leave my house at 2:30-3am to go to work and arrive at work roughly 1 hour later. I'm sure I'm not the only one in the nation. But I will give you that one if it was 4am. I'm reasonably sure that there are/were commuters heading from Boston to NYC on the trains at that time and I saw a few people interviewed from the area that were asking the same questions. My experiences in large cities is that at 4am, there are a fair amount of folks up and about.

The last 5 days I've been seeing quite a bit of tin foil being donned... I'm not too sure if people are getting more foolish or what, but you know what they say about a drowning man grasping for straws? He still drowns. I concur that a little paranoia and healthy distrust of the government is needed, but you have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise you end up looking like Ted Kazynski or Alex Jones, aka a crazy person. While entertaining, a lot of the folks on Doomsday Preppers are a little bit over that line and venturing into loony territory. I hope they don't do an episode with anyone from on here.

DDP is fun to watch and get some ideas from, and who knows, maybe a lot of them are right. I sure don't see our economy or society getting better any time soon.

ETA:

THIS! If you were to look at cops (yes, even a SWAT team) and compare them to infantry soldiers, there are so many more differences that it's not even worth counting the similarities.

I will ask this: Above Chief of Police, chain of command all the way to the top please. And in an EoW/SHTF scenario, who would the police be under command of?

I'm just curious, if you were in charge of the situation and you had an armed and dangerous terrorist on the loose in a very loosely defined area (let's say 20 square blocks or so), what would you do to try and find him and mitigate the risk to the public?

I can't answer that because I am not privy to all the information that was available to them. But just because I am not privy to all that information, does that mean I am not allowed to ask questions or point out items that I find odd?

[Bailey Guns]

Manilla must've changed a lot from 72 to 82. I was there in 82 and it didn't look, feel, smell or sound anything like Boston...martial law or not.

[davsel]

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...om/martial+law

The exercise of government and control by military authorities over the civilian population of a designated territory.


Martial law is an extreme and rare measure used to control society during war or periods of civil unrest or chaos. According to the Supreme Court, the term martial law carries no precise meaning (Duncan v. Kahanamoku, 327 U.S. 304, 66 S. Ct. 606, 90 L. Ed. 688 [1946]). However, most declarations of martial law have some common features. Generally, the institution of martial law contemplates some use of military force. To a varying extent, depending on the martial law order, government military personnel have the authority to make and enforce civil and criminal laws. Certain civil liberties may be suspended, such as the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, freedom of association, and freedom of movement. And the writ ofHabeas Corpus may be suspended (this writ allows persons who are unlawfully imprisoned to gain freedom through a court proceeding).

If it looks like a duck...

[10mm-man]

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...om/martial+law

The exercise of government and control by military authorities over the civilian population of a designated territory.


Martial law is an extreme and rare measure used to control society during war or periods of civil unrest or chaos. According to the Supreme Court, the term martial law carries no precise meaning (Duncan v. Kahanamoku, 327 U.S. 304, 66 S. Ct. 606, 90 L. Ed. 688 [1946]). However, most declarations of martial law have some common features. Generally, the institution of martial law contemplates some use of military force. To a varying extent, depending on the martial law order, government military personnel have the authority to make and enforce civil and criminal laws. Certain civil liberties may be suspended, such as the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, freedom of association, and freedom of movement. And the writ ofHabeas Corpus may be suspended (this writ allows persons who are unlawfully imprisoned to gain freedom through a court proceeding).

If it looks like a duck...

Hummm, Martial law? Looks like Sit......

"the term martial law carries no precise meaning"



So it doesn't have to be said- "were declaring martial law" just the elements have to exist?

[asmo]

If it looks like a duck...

or wood.. oh oh small rocks.

[Ronin13]

Beginning to? The package has arrived, been signed for, and opened already man. It's over.

I was trying to not be all doomy and gloomy, it is only Wednesday, after all.

And the answer is the one no one wants to talk about.

Yep.

or wood.. oh oh small rocks.

She's a witch! Burn her! I love that movie!

[Dingo]

Unlike some other recent instances of mass destruction, I don't believe Boston was planned or perpetrated by the gov't. However, I do think they're quite adept at turning a situation like that beneficial to their agenda, be it a test run for future plans, emotionally-backed legislation, or bolstering their militant presence incrementally here in the states.

Boston was a perfect scenario for them to practice a bit against what could be an armed insurgency in the future. It's painfully telling of how things have changed from how they used to be. 200, even 100 years ago, an event like that would have been perceived as a threat to the community. To be dealt with by the COMMUNITY... armed posses, deputizations, citizen watches etc. These days, it's just "return to your pens... we'll let you back in the pasture when we've dealt with the threat appropriately."