Martial Law

[Bailey Guns]

I got some down time here at the sweat shop so I'll jump back in here.
I totally get where Bailey is coming from and I'm sure he is probably thinking of this thread here: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/100019-H...o-house-Search
While from what little I know about BG from here I totally respect his/your point of view and opinion as they are always well thought out and articulate. I'm not sure if this post is referencing my thoughts in the linked thread but I did state in there that I'm ignorant of M.Law, and was asking for input.

That being said, simply because someone didn't proclaim ML from the Capital Building, doesn't mean they invoked some aspects of in this situation. Even as a former LEO myself (albeit a short time) I generally don't consider myself an expert. However, my father-in-law is a retired S. Deputy who did everything under the sun so I defer a lot to his expertise. While he never said "Martial Law" he did say a lot of what they did (from we can see) does stink...a lot and we both agree.

The one video I posted in the linked thread, IMHO, 'looks bad.' While, without proper context, a priest giving a young boy a lollipop can look bad too. But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...you know the rest.

In the linked thread, I also looped back to Katrina as I was looking for more information on how these situations affect our rights. I'm still unsure.

Again, I will just say that, it looks bad! And even though I'm ex-.mil, ex-LEO, now .gov, I'm not a big fan of government. I've seen too much of the inside to know they are generally not looking out for the individual but only looking out for the .gov machine.

Really don't know what sparked the idea of the thread, honestly. And frankly, I got out of LE when I did for a couple of reasons...one of which was I didn't like the direction LE was going from my early days. So I completely understand the sensitivities some have to LE abusing their powers. On the other hand I can tell you that even the most remote sign of misconduct on the street towards a complaining citizen was unlikely to end well for the officers. At least in the places I worked. This whole "abuse" thing works both ways.

When you've been sued for 16 million dollars because some punk kid lies about what you did, and have to spend 7 days in a federal courtroom proving your innocence, let me know how you feel then.

[Ronin13]

When you've been sued for 16 million dollars because some punk kid lies about what you did, and have to spend 7 days in a federal courtroom proving your innocence, let me know how you feel then.

Such it is due to the highly and ridiculously litigious nature of our modern society... Hence why I use the follow so frequently these days:

I totally understand your reasoning for no longer wanting to be a LEO anymore- the bullshit wears on you quick, I'll bet.

[muddywings]

Really don't know what sparked the idea of the thread, honestly. And frankly, I got out of LE when I did for a couple of reasons...one of which was I didn't like the direction LE was going from my early days. So I completely understand the sensitivities some have to LE abusing their powers. On the other hand I can tell you that even the most remote sign of misconduct on the street towards a complaining citizen was unlikely to end well for the officers. At least in the places I worked. This whole "abuse" thing works both ways.

When you've been sued for 16 million dollars because some punk kid lies about what you did, and have to spend 7 days in a federal courtroom proving your innocence, let me know how you feel then.

Honestly, the reasons you stated were the exact reasons why I left except I hadn't been sued yet. I figured time to move on before that happened or before I had issues with a supervisor.

[Bailey Guns]

That would be a jurisdictional issue. The mayor is not subordinate to anyone in matters involving his/her city alone.

What you're describing sounds more like real martial law.

[losttrail]

That would be a jurisdictional issue. The mayor is not subordinate to anyone in matters involving his/her city alone.

What you're describing sounds more like real martial law.

Thus a possibility in an EoW/SHTF/overreach scenario.

[Bailey Guns]

Thus a possibility in an EoW/SHTF/overreach scenario.

OK, sure. You win. I guess in an EoW/SHTF/overreach scenario a lot of things might happen.

[Chad4000]

Im more on the side that some form of martial law was insituted... i am very uncomfortable that they can shut down all transportation, and communications.. (yes "all" means cell phones, I realize internet was up)..

Do you guys have a plan if you and your spouse are seperated when the nice man with the officers standing behind him asks very politely for you to stay in your house? (yes you sensed sarcasm there lol).. have a plan for when this happens and your kids are at daycare? food for thought......

[Bailey Guns]

Im more on the side that some form of martial law was insituted... i am very uncomfortable that they can shut down all transportation, and communications.. (yes "all" means cell phones, I realize internet was up)..

Do you guys have a plan if you and your spouse are seperated when the nice man with the officers standing behind him asks very politely for you to stay in your house? (yes you sensed sarcasm there lol).. have a plan for when this happens and your kids are at daycare? food for thought......

The press didn't seem to have any trouble communicating. Otherwise you and I wouldn't have seen everything "live". I thought the cell phones were only shut down the day of the bombing...could be wrong. But I personally know people here who were communicating with relatives in Boston via cell phones.

And see my post above about the nice man with guns telling us to leave (as opposed to stay inside) my home. We didn't. Nothing happened.

[Chad4000]

The press didn't seem to have any trouble communicating. Otherwise you and I wouldn't have seen everything "live". I thought the cell phones were only shut down the day of the bombing...could be wrong. But I personally know people here who were communicating with relatives in Boston via cell phones.

And see my post above about the nice man with guns telling us to leave (as opposed to stay inside) my home. We didn't. Nothing happened.

well of course the press can communicate. thats where I heard that cells were shut off that day. (if you know otherwise, then I could be wrong, but i did hear that on the news). and I dont think it takes the biggest stretch of all time to go from "asking" nicely to asking not so nicely.... Boston turned out perfectly... but it was going to anyway. it always does. we caught the bad guy, the end. of course a happy ending had to follow what was going on there... again, it has nothing to do with the cops. theyre doing their job, and they do it to perfection. but, it certainly shows what exactly could happen. remember, most folks are talking long term here. is martial law coming to denver for no reason? nope... but could it come 3 years from now when some crazy with a "fully automatic assualt military rifle with a fold up stock thingy and grenade launcher bayonet" goes postal on a town with "cop killer street sweeper magazines"? I think so.....

think about this same exact situation, but instead of bomb, he used an AR and he gets away. now they are going door to door looking for something we all have.....

[Ronin13]

I cordon off the area that was so defined. I don't order an entire metro area of millions of people to hide under their desks for a day, shut down all businesses (except Dunkin' Donuts - because its too dangerous for everyone but $7 an hour donut fryers ) and shut down all transit for the entire area.

I can't find anything, but I'm curious to know, are we sure the SIP request was for the entirety of Boston or just Watertown? Having been to both locations (Boston, Watertown and Cambridge) I can say that the actual area in question isn't very large.

I leave my house at 2:30-3am to go to work and arrive at work roughly 1 hour later. I'm sure I'm not the only one in the nation. But I will give you that one if it was 4am. I'm reasonably sure that there are/were commuters heading from Boston to NYC on the trains at that time and I saw a few people interviewed from the area that were asking the same questions. My experiences in large cities is that at 4am, there are a fair amount of folks up and about.
I'll give you that, however, I don't believe a substantial amount of people, fair amount, yes, but unable to define exactly how many, let's not split hairs, point is some were, most were not.

DDP is fun to watch and get some ideas from, and who knows, maybe a lot of them are right. I sure don't see our economy or society getting better any time soon.
We're in agreement here. Things are sure to get worse before getting better.

I will ask this: Above Chief of Police, chain of command all the way to the top please. And in an EoW/SHTF scenario, who would the police be under command of?
I'm not an expert, but from my experience I believe (again, not an expert or know for sure, just from what I've learned) above Chief, Bailey is partially correct, city manager>mayor>governor>POTUS. In a SHTF/EOTWAWKI scenario, why does it matter? It's the end, we shouldn't get hung up on this as it's a bit far fetched and not productive to this discussion- ie: the world didn't end and only a minor bit of shit hit any fans.

I can't answer that because I am not privy to all the information that was available to them. But just because I am not privy to all that information, does that mean I am not allowed to ask questions or point out items that I find odd?

I'm not saying you can't ask questions, but you are criticizing the actions of a department based solely on emotion and speculative conjecture, and without offering how you would do it differently I would say that it's counter-productive to be overly critical when you yourself claim you don't have all the facts.