Martial Law

[buffalobo]

It was another step on the path.

The journey is now shorter than it used to be.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

[Bailey Guns]

It was another step on the path.

The journey is now shorter than it used to be.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

Very poetic but what exactly does it mean?

[hatidua]

I arrived in Manila 11 days before Marcos declared martial law in '72 and it wasn't all that different from how Boston appeared on the news....except there weren't door to door searches.

[spqrzilla]

Attempting to protect the general population through such an order or even evacuation of a few houses in a neighborhood due to dangerous circumstances doesn't equate to martial law, either.

Ordering an entire metro area to stay inside, close businesses (except Dunkin' Donuts ...) and shut down all transit systems is far more than many martial law declarations have done.

Frankly, its was both utterly illegal, inappropriate and completely ridiculous.

[losttrail]

Very poetic but what exactly does it mean?

Incrementalism. That's what it means. Not taking everything at once, but small pieces, bits at a time.

I believe it was a test and a clever one.

By not issuing an order to stay inside, but making it a request, it was much less innocuous, thus setting the stage for future events. Slowly getting the public used to the idea that the police/mayor/governor are only looking out for their best interests.

Trust Big Brother.

This yahoo had been identified late Tuesday or early Wednesday and was still on the loose, but the request to "shelter in place" was not issued until Friday?

Obama saw his latest photo op on Thursday in Boston, so evidently this remaining terrorist was not too dangerous until after Obama left Boston?

Why was the request to "shelter in place" issued AFTER commuters were already at or on their way to work and school?

How about shutting down the T and taxi services?

BG, you asked "What government?" Gov. Deval Patrick (a government official I believe) issued the "shelter at home" request, correct? Didn't Gov. Deval Patrick also issue the orders to shut down mass transit? As I understand it, a governor is the highest ranking GOVERNMENT official of each state and not just some random civilian.

That government.

How much disruption of mass transit was there following the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building bombing in Oklahoma City? There were no issued requests or orders to "shelter in place" while the suspects were still unknown or known but not yet aprehended.

How about the DC snipers? Was mass transit shut down and the citizenry requested to "cower in fear"? Was DC placed in "lockdown"? No.

Is Chicago placed in lockdown every night due to the mass shootings that occur on an almost daily basis? No.

Just some items to ponder.

[Bailey Guns]

Incrementalism. That's what it means. Not taking everything at once, but small pieces, bits at a time.

I believe it was a test and a clever one.

By not issuing an order to stay inside, but making it a request, it was much less innocuous, thus setting the stage for future events. Slowly getting the public used to the idea that the police/mayor/governor are only looking out for their best interests.

Trust Big Brother.

Incremental usurpation of rights and liberties by the federal gov't...I'll buy that. That's been happening for a long time. The fed has far exceeded the powers granted it by the Constitution. I don't believe in any way the Boston incident was some sort of test but respect your choice in believing that.

This yahoo had been identified late Tuesday or early Wednesday and was still on the loose, but the request to "shelter in place" was not issued until Friday?

Obama saw his latest photo op on Thursday in Boston, so evidently this remaining terrorist was not too dangerous until after Obama left Boston?

Why was the request to "shelter in place" issued AFTER commuters were already at or on their way to work and school?

How about shutting down the T and taxi services?

Because I don't think the state and/or local gov'ts had a clue where this guy was until the MIT shooting on Thurs night. All of this began to unfold Thurs night and into Fri morning. So the fact the order wasn't issued until then would seem to indicate a lot of restraint on the part of the state/local gov'ts, in my opinion.

BG, you asked "What government?" Gov. Deval Patrick (a government official I believe) issued the "shelter at home" request, correct? Didn't Gov. Deval Patrick also issue the orders to shut down mass transit? As I understand it, a governor is the highest ranking GOVERNMENT official of each state and not just some random civilian.

That government.

That's why I was asking. Many people use "gov't" as a generic term for the feds. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

How much disruption of mass transit was there following the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building bombing in Oklahoma City? There were no issued requests or orders to "shelter in place" while the suspects were still unknown or known but not yet aprehended.

How about the DC snipers? Was mass transit shut down and the citizenry requested to "cower in fear"? Was DC placed in "lockdown"? No.

Is Chicago placed in lockdown every night due to the mass shootings that occur on an almost daily basis? No.

Just some items to ponder.

In OKC after the bombing the governor did issue a state of emergency and ordered most, if not all, non-essential workers be released for the day for their safety. Pres Clinton also considered grounding air traffic out of OKC because it was thought the bomber might try to escape. Granted, he never did this. But, there were some similar steps taken to protect the public. Also, McVeigh was arrested 90 minutes after the bomb went off.

It would've been difficult to lock-down an entire region when the DC-area snipers were active. Plus, that incident lasted far, far longer. I'm don't recall but I'd be surprised if the local gov'ts didn't issue safety advisories of some sort to the general population. Chicago? Go figure. A bastion of liberal blight with out-of-control crime. It's not the same as terrorism.

[losttrail]

Chicago? Go figure. A bastion of liberal blight with out-of-control crime. It's not the same as terrorism.

From Merriam-Webster

terrorism - noun - Systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

And the political objective of the gang killings in Chicago and other metro areas is to drive out the police and authority in order to take over and establish gang dominance or the area. To set up there own society of crime.

It may not be exactly the same as international terrorism as we see coming from Iran, Afghaistan, Pakistan, Chechnya, etc., but it is still terrorism.

[Ronin13]

Why was the request to "shelter in place" issued AFTER commuters were already at or on their way to work and school?

IIRC, the shelter in place was requested around 4am... I don't know that many people that head to work that early, and I certainly don't know anyone who goes to school that early, not even teachers. I understand the point you're trying to make, but at least try to be factual when citing examples.

The last 5 days I've been seeing quite a bit of tin foil being donned... I'm not too sure if people are getting more foolish or what, but you know what they say about a drowning man grasping for straws? He still drowns. I concur that a little paranoia and healthy distrust of the government is needed, but you have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise you end up looking like Ted Kazynski or Alex Jones, aka a crazy person. While entertaining, a lot of the folks on Doomsday Preppers are a little bit over that line and venturing into loony territory. I hope they don't do an episode with anyone from on here.

ETA:

And cops, despite their training and equipment, are civilians. They may dress like the military and have some of the same gear and tactics, but they're still subject to civil control.

THIS! If you were to look at cops (yes, even a SWAT team) and compare them to infantry soldiers, there are so many more differences that it's not even worth counting the similarities.

What I did see was that once the 'lockdown' was lifted, a private citizen, exercising his right to kill himself with cigarettes, located the terrorist. So what did the lockdown and door-to-door searches accomplish?

It sent a lesson to the citizens that the 4th and 14th Amendments are easily suspended based upon a supposed threat. No, I am not saying that the threat was fictional. It was real and I agree that it makes sense to reduce the number of innocents from the equation.

I just don't see all that happened as 100% benign.

I'm just curious, if you were in charge of the situation and you had an armed and dangerous terrorist on the loose in a very loosely defined area (let's say 20 square blocks or so), what would you do to try and find him and mitigate the risk to the public?

[spqrzilla]

I'm just curious, if you were in charge of the situation and you had an armed and dangerous terrorist on the loose in a very loosely defined area (let's say 20 square blocks or so), what would you do to try and find him and mitigate the risk to the public?

I cordon off the area that was so defined. I don't order an entire metro area of millions of people to hide under their desks for a day, shut down all businesses (except Dunkin' Donuts - because its too dangerous for everyone but $7 an hour donut fryers ) and shut down all transit for the entire area.

[losttrail]

IIRC, the shelter in place was requested around 4am... I don't know that many people that head to work that early, and I certainly don't know anyone who goes to school that early, not even teachers. I understand the point you're trying to make, but at least try to be factual when citing examples.

I leave my house at 2:30-3am to go to work and arrive at work roughly 1 hour later. I'm sure I'm not the only one in the nation. But I will give you that one if it was 4am. I'm reasonably sure that there are/were commuters heading from Boston to NYC on the trains at that time and I saw a few people interviewed from the area that were asking the same questions. My experiences in large cities is that at 4am, there are a fair amount of folks up and about.

The last 5 days I've been seeing quite a bit of tin foil being donned... I'm not too sure if people are getting more foolish or what, but you know what they say about a drowning man grasping for straws? He still drowns. I concur that a little paranoia and healthy distrust of the government is needed, but you have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise you end up looking like Ted Kazynski or Alex Jones, aka a crazy person. While entertaining, a lot of the folks on Doomsday Preppers are a little bit over that line and venturing into loony territory. I hope they don't do an episode with anyone from on here.

DDP is fun to watch and get some ideas from, and who knows, maybe a lot of them are right. I sure don't see our economy or society getting better any time soon.

ETA:

THIS! If you were to look at cops (yes, even a SWAT team) and compare them to infantry soldiers, there are so many more differences that it's not even worth counting the similarities.

I will ask this: Above Chief of Police, chain of command all the way to the top please. And in an EoW/SHTF scenario, who would the police be under command of?

I'm just curious, if you were in charge of the situation and you had an armed and dangerous terrorist on the loose in a very loosely defined area (let's say 20 square blocks or so), what would you do to try and find him and mitigate the risk to the public?

I can't answer that because I am not privy to all the information that was available to them. But just because I am not privy to all that information, does that mean I am not allowed to ask questions or point out items that I find odd?