? about new background laws

[Irving]

My question is, why MUST the gun be transfered to the FFL before the back ground check is submited? In fact, why must the FFL be involved at all? You can run a background check on anyone, at anytime, if you have the correct info. Is the background check you run for renting an apartment different than the one you run for purchasing a gun? If so, why couldn't the public simply call the CBI directly like the FFL can?

[Great-Kazoo]

My question is, why MUST the gun be transfered to the FFL before the back ground check is submited? In fact, why must the FFL be involved at all? You can run a background check on anyone, at anytime, if you have the correct info. Is the background check you run for renting an apartment different than the one you run for purchasing a gun? If so, why couldn't the public simply call the CBI directly like the FFL can?

Because the CO .Gov will not let Non-FFL's have access. Which is one of the points of contention the voters, sheriffs and some state rep's have with this law.
Common Sense was never the intent, or purpose, of the Dem introduced and passed gun laws
IIRC you also need clearance for the ability to access NCIC, Anyone confirm or deny this?

[cysoto]

the $10 bs tax started already...

This is correct. That law took effect on March 20th (as soon as the governor signed it into law).

[cysoto]

My question is, why MUST the gun be transfered to the FFL before the back ground check is submited? In fact, why must the FFL be involved at all? You can run a background check on anyone, at anytime, if you have the correct info. Is the background check you run for renting an apartment different than the one you run for purchasing a gun? If so, why couldn't the public simply call the CBI directly like the FFL can?

The background check done transfer a gun is more in-depth than the one done for employment or apartment rental. You also need an FFL number to request it.

[cysoto]

Why wouldn't you just hold onto your gun until the other guy passes the background check, then the dealer can dick around with the input/output paper work. Why must the gun be in possession of the dealer before the background check can be done? Since when does a gun have to even be part of the equation to run a background check?

The firearm does not to be in "possession" of the FFL dealer (i.e. entered into their bound book) but he/she must have the physical presence of the item so that they can verify that the serial number being entered is in fact the one from that particular gun.

[BlasterBob]

The firearm does not to be in "possession" of the FFL dealer (i.e. entered into their bound book) but he/she must have the physical presence of the item so that they can verify that the serial number being entered is in fact the one from that particular gun.

So cysoto, what you are saying is kinda difficult for ME to understand. From the way you worded the above, you are saying that the firearm does not have to be entered in their bound book yet you indicate that the serial number is being entered - entered where if not in THE book. OK, so if it is actually entered into the dealers book and the seller takes it back home because the CBI is falling behind again and it takes days to receive the go ahead to release the firearm to the buyer. What happens when the BATF sends one of their boys to make an inspection of the book and inventory and they see this particular firearm is entered in the receipt side of the book but in checking the inventory, finds this one is missing. Are they going to take the good word of the dealer that it is merely a pending transaction? I still believe (but do not like it) that the firearm must be taken in "possession" once it is entered into the bound book. I will admit that I am NOT a FFL dealer and certainly don't claim to be real familiar with all of the BATF requirements but am only going by what I have been reading. We shall see how it transpires soon.

[Shiro]

Yah, no way I'm giving a gun to the FFL to hold, plus I don't see anywhere in the law where that is demanded.

[Great-Kazoo]

As a FFL, I'm not doing any transfers unless they are logged. Sorry, I don't sacrifice my licenses based on legal opinions of the uninformed.

We have to comply with FEDERAL regulations. I don't care how anyone interprets the State law. These are managed as private transactions, which even CO will tell the dealer must be logged. (anyone running instacheck - read the instructions on the dealer/private selector)

Now, that said:

When dealers run instacheck, we don't transmit serial numbers, make, model, manufacturer, etc. We keep those on file only at the business location. *tin foil off*

It absolutely has to be logged.

The only thing that doesn't need to be logged: You bring in a gun for work, we tweak it here and there and get it back to you the same day.

We fill out a 4473? We're going to lose our license if there isn't corresponding firearms in the BB. We can't just run a blank "check".

PS: I'm the only one in the State that does transfers free. So I'm not making money from this. But I'm damn sure I don't sacrifice the rest of my operation while doing those transfers.

AND this is what a lot of folks do not comprehend. 4473 done, better be a paper trail of gun in / gun out.

[BlasterBob]

Repeating in part:
It absolutely has to be logged.
We fill out a 4473? We're going to lose our license if there isn't corresponding firearms in the BB. We can't just run a blank "check".
ETA: Understand, that the gun does not have to be "transferred" to the FFL, it does however have to be logged by the FFL, and the FFL has to verify the firearm in order to log it. Conceivabley, in a P2P transfer after July 1st, a FFL (may) be in the right to let the seller (transferor) sign off on the bottom of page 3 once the transfer is complete - and the firearm is never truly in the FFL's possession; though it is logged.

I sure agree with all of the foxtrot post but am still not clear on one thing. The firearm is entered into the BB with serial number, description and who the seller is but what if the CBI is taking numerous days in producing the clearance for the sale. During those days of waiting on the CBI, the firearm is still in the FFL's inventory so he is more or less "responsible" for the firearm. It may not be "transferred" (transfer ownership) to the FFL dealer but it must remain in his "inventory" until the final 4473 is signed off on. foxtrot, isn't that corrrect?

[cysoto]

So cysoto, what you are saying is kinda difficult for ME to understand. From the way you worded the above, you are saying that the firearm does not have to be entered in their bound book yet you indicate that the serial number is being entered - entered where if not in THE book. OK, so if it is actually entered into the dealers book and the seller takes it back home because the CBI is falling behind again and it takes days to receive the go ahead to release the firearm to the buyer. What happens when the BATF sends one of their boys to make an inspection of the book and inventory and they see this particular firearm is entered in the receipt side of the book but in checking the inventory, finds this one is missing. Are they going to take the good word of the dealer that it is merely a pending transaction? I still believe (but do not like it) that the firearm must be taken in "possession" once it is entered into the bound book. I will admit that I am NOT a FFL dealer and certainly don't claim to be real familiar with all of the BATF requirements but am only going by what I have been reading. We shall see how it transpires soon.

As it has already been mentioned, the serial number of the firearm is not shared with CBI; however, the serial number needs to be included in the 4473. If I understand you correctly, what you are asking is "what happens if the transaction doesn't happen on the the same day of the background check (for example when a BG check is initiated at the end of their work day)." If this is the case, the firearm needs to be entered into the bound-book and, if the purchaser is not approved (and the buyer wants their gun back), the original owner will need to have a 4473 done on themselves in order to have the firearm return to them.

The lack of information on this new law has complicated things quite a bit but it really is not as difficult as some folks are making it out to be. When an individual wants to sell a gun and they find a willing buyer, they should both go to an FFL holder, the buyer pays for the firearm, and the seller relinquishes possession of the gun to the FFL holder. After the gun has been accepted by the FFL, the seller can leave with their money; is that easy.

Now, if the buyer fails to pass the background check, it would be just like if you had purchased the gun from an out-of-state individual; either the person who sold it could agree to take the gun back (in which case, they need to pass their own background check). If the "seller" says "no, you bought it; it is now YOUR gun", then the buyer can still get their money back by having the FFL sell the gun for him/her (by consigning the gun). Of course, there will be a charge for this service (in our case the consignment fee is 15%). Also, for those of you who will continue to obey our laws (regardless of how asinine some of them may seem to be), we will offer person-to-person transactions and we will do so at the same price which we charge to receive a firearm from out of state ($20 for the transfer + $10 for the CBI check).